i would track down a tree farm.. within 100 miles ... and i would visit it at fall color time.. and mark the trees for delivery [presuming they are of any non-shove them in the trunk size].... and have them delivered when the leaves fall off ..

is this an option ..

one thing for sure.. it guarantees fall color ..

how big you thinking of buying .. DIY planting.. etc ... let us help you with the rest of the project if you need ...

ken

ps: how far are you from mansfield OH??

kellybranford, here you go:

If you are familiar with the greater Balto area this is Dulaney Valley Road @ entrance to Stella Maris Hospice, cv is likely 'Green Mountain'

Here's another:

'John Pair' AKA 'Caddo' @ National Arboretum, maybe the best red fall color.

Since Sugar Maples are such a favorite there are many cultivars. Sometimes seedlings can be great also.

My opinion is that 'Bailsta' (Fall Fiesta) is a superior cultivar. There might be a caddo type that might be better for heat however Fall Fiesta didn't show any signs of scorch or tatter with the 2012 drought/heat in my area.

Fall color is long, robust and consistent. Also resistant to late season frosts which can prematurely force some others to drop their leaves.

This is a top 5 tree in general for me and I've grown quite a few cutlitvars/species.

Thanks, Ken! I don't know of too many tree farms in the area (other than Christmas tree farms haha), but I will do some research! I called a local nursery yesterday and they were unfortunately less than helpful...they told me they only had Legacy Sugar Maples, and the employee I spoke to wasn't sure what other cultivars they could get...soooo, I think I need to find a new place to talk to!

Our plan is to plant them ourselves (we're the DIY type for most everything usually), and I'd like to get the trees as large as is manageable to start with. What would you recommend if we are planning to do it ourselves, as a max. size to go with?

I was hoping to get them planted in September - mostly because we are going to be doing some fall grass seeding in the area where the trees are going, and I was hoping to plant the trees at the same time as the grass. Would this work, or should the trees be planted more in the October/November timeframe?

And it looks like we are about 6-6.5 hours away from that part of Ohio!

Sam_md - what a small world, I know EXACTLY where that is! Grew up not too far from there, and have probably driven by there about a thousand times in my lifetime haha...it's basically on the way to get anywhere from where I grew up! I never knew those were sugar maples (we're just starting to get into trees, now that our house has been built), but they are stunning! We're actually planning to line our driveway with them, much like they did with Stella Maris - we have a long driveway, and plenty of space to fill up! I was all but decided on the Green Mountains, because I had read excellent things about them...but then I read about the Fall Fiesta a couple of days ago, and now I'm torn. I can't really find a good comparison of the 2 online, to know which may be a better fit for what we're looking for.

We're also going to try to go to the National Arboretum in October this year (when we have some vacation time planned), but I'm worried it may be too late to help me choose a cultivar...I was hoping to plant them in September, unless you all tell me otherwise! Is the 'John Pair' AKA 'Caddo' cultivar a smaller variety (thought I may have read that somewhere)? Or does it get as large as the other cultivars?

whaas_5a - those are exactly the traits I read about Fall Fiesta that have made me seriously consider it...I love the consistent, long lasting fall foliage, and the fact that a frost would be less likely to cut the foliage time short. Most of the trees where we live tend to turn pretty late (I'd say they don't start until mid-to-late October usually)...which is odd, since we're in an area that gets much colder than a good portion of Maryland. So anything I can do to prolong the color is a-okay by me!

Would you consider using more than one cultivar, mixed randomly to get a wider range of color?

NHBabs - potentially, yes. My plan was to keep the same cultivar to give it a more formal allee type of look. But as long as I used all sugar maples, I would be open to looking into using a mix of different cultivars. Provided they all looked similar enough to still give the effect I'm looking for! What did you have in mind?

Green Mountain isn't consistent in color if that helps. I see them ranging from Yellow orange to more yellow to more orange year to year. Mature trees are seen observed from Milwaukee, Madison and Chicago area.

Fall Fiesta is always consistent with its bold array of orange, red and a touch of yellow.

The 5 years I owned it it always colored up like the pic below. While the other cultviars varied year to year. The color held on as long as some native oaks. The native Sugar maples color up early after the native Ash trees to give you an idea on timing.

http://www.itrees.com/tree-species/maple-trees/fall-fiesta-sugar-maple.html

I must have glazed over that you needed multiple trees so multiple cultivars is a good idea to get a better mix of color and timing. Acer 'Morton' is another favorite.

http://www.chicagolandgrows.org/trees/sugarmaple.php#

Not at my home computer for up close pics but that is Fall Fiesta to the left. It stays intense like that after those others drop leaves.

whaas_5a - that really is a stunning tree! Are there any downsides to the fall fiesta vs other cultivars, that you are aware of? And have you found the growth rate and mature size to be more or less what is expected?

Good form and has more vigor than most. I'd expect it to be a full size sugar maple.

I can't comment on frost cracking vs others though.

The key differentiator with this cultivar boils down to longer lasting and consistent fall color (the actual color not the fact that it colors up) vs others. All the others are great in their own mind to tell you the truth.

Give a sugar maple room with soil that has good drainage and that is not compacted and it will reward you.

Does the fall fiesta really go through an entire range of colors (yellow to orange to red) in a fall season? Or does it predominately turn mostly one color?

Thank you again for all of the helpful posts - you all are wonderful!!

Sorry - saw that you just addressed that in one of your posts already! Takes a while to scroll through on my phone, so I missed it the first go-round! Thanks again!

the mosty complete list of cultivars is incomplete at best...not to mention, just knowing that at some point in history, this name existed and had this description attached, does not necessarily do you any good when you actually start looking.

Do not call a place, unless you are looking to establish hours of operation. The good person is likely not available to answer the phone...and I can tell you from having been the person receiving the phone calls, the people in the nursery do not have the time to walk you through the entire inventory that they have or could have...and once they find out you aren't going to buy for at least two months, the whole conversation is pointless. In stock today, next week, may be unavailable until spring.

Don't worry...as soon as you choose a cultivar, you'll discover how many are are out there, and how superior each and every other one is.

Wait...you said you have space...so...go for a few different things. Do a Legacy, a Fall Fiesta, a Sugar Mountain. You want the range of color, you want a range of plants to provide it. Much of the rest of fall color has to do with environmental conditions...also good luck, you live in a great part of he world for excellent fall color.

My best advice? Find things in fall color if this is stressing you out.

Thank you all so much for the helpful comments, pictures, and suggestions! This board is such a great resource!

So another question for all of you - when I get ready to plant trees in the rest of our yard, what are some of your other favorites for dynamite fall color? I'll probably do some other cultivars of sugar maples around the yard as well, but are there any other fall standouts that you all really enjoy? I love oak trees, but hear they can be hit or miss when it comes to fall color...

Every year we have a fall color thread. HERE is last year's.

but I'm worried it may be too late to help me choose a cultivar...I was hoping to plant them in September,

===>>> in a perfect world of transplanting.. you mark and buy a tree in leaf.. so you can verify fall color ..

and you plant it leafless ... which of course it will be.. a week or two after it colors.. eh ...

think in tree time.. you are buying a root mass for the future ... not for current color ...

without leaves.. the top is dormant.. but it can grow roots.. in your zone.. probably all winter .. [in my zone.. until the ground freezes ...

so that by the time spring leaf out comes.. you already have a root mass.. that can survive the following summers heat ...

someone in your zone is going to have to give you a more precise idea of timing for your area ...

when thinking about a tree that could live 100 years... try to step outside any thoughts of instant gratification ...

ken

note first section on timing ....

https://sites.google.com/site/tnarboretum/Home/planting-a-tree-or-shrub

The key to fall color is diversity. Some cultivars are very consistent (think Freeman maples) but others vary from year to year based on temps, precipitation, etc. Then within a particular species they vary (think Carpinus caroliniana).

Local arboretums and botanical gardens are a good source to validate what colors up nicely. It might take a few years/trips to get a good collection going.

Kelly, for other trees with fall color, look up Nyssa sylvatica. It is also called tupelo or black gum. A stunning tree. I also love beech (just keep it away from house and driveway) and American Hornbeam (Hornbeam is also called musclewood or ironwood, and it tends to be a smaller and slower growing tree.) Yellowood is very pretty in fall, too, and trends to the smaller size. Scarlet oaks have a great red and white oaks have a deep purple on good years.

Maples have very aggressive root systems that out compete many things that would grow below them, including grass. Also, maples tend to have roots that like oxygen so they tend to have surface roots which, over time, can make mowing a lawn obnoxious. They might raose concrete ovee time, too, if planted too close to the driveway. Just a few comments as you think about the placement of these maples relative to the new lawn! Wish I had 3 acres to work with! Ask Ken for his link on how to plant trees.

Any cultivar should grow ok for you if PROPERLY SITED (neither too wet nor too dry/windswept, or too close to pavement), which with 3 acres isn't a likely issue.

So, it's down to fall color.

I would vote for Fall Fiesta, out of the ones you listed, but it's pretty difficult to find in my experience. Another one I like (which is even harder to find) is Bonfire. More red in the coloration, and about the fastest growing sugar maple out there.

sam_md - thank you for the link! I read through it and got a few ideas for other parts of our yard!

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5 - thank you for the helpful info! We didn't have a yard in our last house, so this is our first time buying trees - very helpful to have your info.!

whaas_5a(5A SE WI) - I think we're going to try to find an arboretum to check out soon, hopefully somewhat in the area...it seems like it is a great source of info. and ideas!

(ryanga7a) Ryan M - Thank you for the suggestions! I'm compiling a list now of other beautiful fall foliage trees that we can use in other parts of our yard. Once all of the summer yard work slows down a bit, we want to plan out an overall landscaping plan so we can try to work in all of the trees that we want to use over the coming years :-).

hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD) - We started looking for nurseries and tree farms this weekend, and it does seem like Fall Fiesta trees are difficult to find in the area...I wonder why that is? Do you have any experience with any online nurseries for purchasing trees (trying to think of a backup plan/worst case scenario, in case I can't find the Fall Fiesta locally!). I've never heard of Bonfire Sugar Maples - but I'm definitely going to look them up! Thanks!

Since I'm new to this, I have another question for all of you...what is the largest size maple tree you would purchase if you wanted to attempt a DIY planting?

You're going to get answers all over the board on that one.

Thinking specifically size only as it relates to the ability to move, I would not exceed 2" caliper. For other reasons as well.

You would likely need it delivered to the hole at that size. I can roll a 2" caliper in the hole myself but I have to be very careful with the angle to ensure I get the right face in the direction I want.

For b&b I really only prefer 1" to 1.5" as they are easier to handle and I can sometimes remove the entire cage before putting in the hole.

Containers are tricky as you can have girdling roots all along the way as its up potted. Whereas a b&b is usually planted at a liner. 5 gallon containers are my favorite size to plant.

So I am striking out (as are the landscapers that I've been in contact with) finding Fall Fiesta anywhere :-(. They've called growers in several different states, and none of them have that cultivar anymore. One of the landscapers I've been in touch with has recommended Flashfire Sugar Maples...does anyone here have any experience with this type?

whaas_5a(5A SE WI) - Thank you for the helpful information about caliper size! I've learned so much from all of you, I really appreciate the great information!!

Flashfire is a cultivar of the 'Caddo' subtype of sugar maple, from an isolated relic population in Oklahoma. Very heat and drought tolerant, and it appears that cultivar colors well.

I would imagine it's a good one, but the Caddo sugar maples tend towards not getting as large, maybe two-thirds the size of a standard sugar maple.

Are you up for a six hour drive?

Wade and Gatton in Belleville, Ohio appears to have Fall Fiesta. AFAIK, they don't ship.

On a side note, it frustrates me that the current state of the horticulture industry is such that you only have maybe a handful of cultivars of any one plant available, and it’s usually the “new” patented one that they can make big bucks on, which contributes to a monoculture. That, plus the average homeowner has a lot the size of a Yugo, and can’t tell the difference between an Acer saccharum and a Platanus occidentalis.

I fear we’re headed for a world where, unless you grow from seed or graft your own, your tree selection will be limited to three kinds of Acer rubrum and Bradford Pear.

There should still be a market out there for a boutique, mail-order nursery, that sells small, but quality specimens of hard to find cultivars. ForestFarm used to be that, and they’re still around, but they’ve scaled down their selection a LOT over the years. Especially in conifers.

The last hope might be some Amazon sellers who do it as a side business, and only need to make enough money to stay in business, and treat it more as a for-profit hobby.

hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD) - Thank you! I'm having a hard time finding a ton of information about it online, and I had honestly never heard of it before. This landscaper (he's actually a good friend of the person we bought our property from, so I do trust him) told me that even though I've read that sugar maples would do fine in my zone, they tend to do better out in the higher elevations of Western Maryland (4,000 or so ft) when they live this far south...but we are at ~1,000 ft, so we're not exactly a 'low' elevation where I live. I think that's why he recommended this specific cultivar, since it seems to be one that is designed to live further south?

I did find one farm that has them in stock locally (at least from what they were willing to tell me), but every landscaper I've talked to either doesn't have an account with them, or has told me they are so terrible to work with, they'll never work with them again...and they don't sell to the public. So frustrating :-(.

Rent a Uhaul and go get some trees! Fun day trip.

BTW, yeah, sugar maple prefers cooler climates, but it seems to be a common thing in MD for landscapers to say that they don't do well here. I think it's mostly a siting issue. Plant them near pavement and they won't be happy.

Pick the right cultivar, plant in a good spot, and they will do fine.

There is also the 'Oregon Trail' variety. From a big old specimen in Kansas (hotter and drier than MD).

Grimms Gardens sells them online. Not cheap. But they do ship.

Manor View Farm in Balto Co, has sugar maple in their inventory. You will have to have your contractor place the order and pick them up. Someone like Stadler Nursery should have them (many locations) Waverly Farm nr Frederick -wholesale-

We live in Northern Maryland, right on the PA line...... well that narrows it down to about 240 miles, so I will assume you are in the eastern part where I am.

If you want to try the retail route consider:

Valley View Farm, Sun Nursery, Homestead Gardens, in MD

Merrifield's or Betty's Azalea Ranch in Fairfax Co, its a matter of calling around and shopping around, ask when they get their fall shipments in.

Below is an interesting cover from our state's promotional literature. The sugar maples are a cultivar because they are all so uniform. I can't say which one, maybe 'Green Mountain' Location is Buckeystown Pike south of Frederick.

sam_md - Thank you! I've tried Valley View, Kingsdene, and some others in MD, but I will absolutely call the others on your list! Interestingly enough, Manor View is the nursery that does have them in stock, but I can't find a Landscaper who wants to work with them again :-(.

That is a beautiful photo - can't wait to (one day!) have my driveway look kind of like that!

So I struck out with Stadler, Waverly, Sun Nurseries, and Homestead Gardens so far. I did find 1 other place in Maryland that does grow them, but they only have 4-4.5" caliper and 4.5-5" caliper sizes right now...which could apparently weigh up to 2,500 lbs! Crazy. They might have something more in the 3" caliper size in September...so I'm going to see if I have any luck there...or if I can find a landscaper to work with Manor View. I never thought it would be so difficult to buy trees!!

You can see if Manor View themselves can recommend anyone...

Best bet is to reserve now for next year or wait until March and get the trees. This time of year (at least around here) is all the left over crap or over sized specimens.

Some nurseries will order a cultivar to be shipped with their incoming spring stock if you request it.

Another good suggestion especially if they are set up with Schmidt. You could always call Schmidt on the West Coast and find out who they sell too in your area. I did this a few years ago and actually had the truck deliver it straight to my house since it was a larger order of container stock

All - a quick update. I was able to find someone to work with Manor View - they had 12 Fall Fiestas, and we just reserved 10 of them in the 2" caliper size. They'll stay happy at the nursery until we have them planted in October :-) :-).

For anyone else who is looking for them, I did end up finding 2 other sources in the Maryland area: Kingsdene Nursery would have been able to order them for me (they would have been potted, as opposed to the trees from Manor View that are in burlap, but I believe they were also 2" caliper). Moon Nurseries was the other source, but their trees were more in the 3-5" caliper size.

Thank you all again for your help - can't wait to see these beautiful trees planted, and to enjoy them for years to come!

Any pic updates on your fall fiestas?

Awesome dave! About how many years old are they?

The tree in the 1st photo was planted in 2009, the 2nd tree was planted 2014. Both were potted trees (15 gal size).