I assume the grey tall hutch is supposed to represent a subzero refrigerator?

I would get rid of the legs and add 36" wide 12" deep cabinets on each end of the Island facing out. They will hide the stools and make the island look more substantial. The legs are not fixing how skimpy the Island looks from the side. Also the countertop is longer then 10 feet in this picture. Almost all types of countertop slabs are 10 feet maximum.

Good eye, Main Line Kitchen Design. That photo is a sketch and we will make the island the size of the slab. The grey tall hutch is supposed to be a subzero fridge with panels and a mirror design. The island hangs over the cabinet at the end where the kitchen table goes and also on the side by fridge. The legs were to hold the overhang. If I add the 12" cabinet, do I still need the legs for the fridge side to support the counter? Thanks so much for your help. Any design ideas for cabinet styles (Doors vs drawers)?

Inset doors and drawers would tell the guests you didn't go modular.

Definitely no legs are needed. Depending on the type of top you select you might need a couple of inadvisable steel plates.

https://www.houzz.com/products/contractor-grade-countertop-support-bracket-18-prvw-vr~38492320

Hi Ryan Olivieri, Would you please clarify what that means..... Sorry. I didn't go modular?

modular means they stack up boxes, slap doors on, and put trim around it. Kitchen design companies use modular because it's more profitable, the faceframe is almost totally hidden so they can use less skilled tradesmen. Invisible hardware held in with little screws that work their way out of the particle board, the right hand door under the sink going out of alignment every few months, it's the industry standard.

They're giving you a round-over or ogee detail around the outside corner of your doors because it's quite literally impossible to precisely line up a whole row of doors to each other with no face frame in between them.

Thanks Ryan Olivieri, Inc. for the explanation. So what do you suggest I use here with this design? Different style doors?

Question: Why do you want to put an island between your frig and the other appliances? Won't it be annoying to have to keep going around the island to get to the frig? The frig drawers are a good way to deal with it, but why do it that way when you could put the cooktop in the island and put the frig where the cooktop is supposed to go?

Thanks Carrellhouse for your advice. In my old house the cooktop was on the island, and because of that, you couldn't really sit around it when cooking. I want a big island to bake on at Christmas, and to stand around and eat/gather during parties. The cooktop makes it difficult and a little dirty.

I think what Ryan means is not to get Frameless European construction on your cabinets. I would agree. Well made framed cabinetry is superior to frameless construction. The inset cabinetry Ryan mentions and beaded inset cabinetry would be the most expensive type of framed cabinetry. Inset, while very attractive doesn't make the cabinets more durable though. They just look more custom, and as Ryan says prove to the world that your kitchen is well constructed because the front solid wood frame of the cabinet is visable.

Frameless cabinets are just boxes with doors on them as Ryan says. IKEA would be the most popular frameless line but expensive cabinet lines can be frameless too. And the most modern door styles will only come with frameless construction.

Many designers will defend frameless construction as you will probably find out after I post this comment. But designers I respect consider frameless cabinetry only appropriate for ultra modern kitchens. If you live in the United States it makes the most sense to get better made framed cabinetry. In Europe and Australia where wood is so much more expensive only the most expensive custom inset kitchens will be framed. But why go European if you can spend the same or less and get a better made cabinet.

Thank you, Main Line, I didn't know that. I was told frameless offers the most space in the cabinet itself. I'm coming from a tiny kitchen so I was happy to hear about a cabinet with more space. I wonder how much more the kitchen design will be if I get inset style. I will have to ask my kitchen guy what he has to show me now in framed doors. Right now I was looking at Ultracraft and Dynasty. Do you have suggestions about brands that are not frameless that you recommend? Thanks again!

Main Line: Also, my dishes never fit in my upper cabinets in the kitchen in my old house. Is this a problem with framed cabinet style?

Here are our reviews of the most popular cabinet lines:

https://www.mainlinekitchendesign.com/general/kitchen-cabinet-ratings-2017-reviews-top-selling-cabinet-lines/

Inset will be a lot more expensive but framed won't cost you any more and it could even cost less. You get no more space in the open wall and base cabinets with frameless cabinetry but the drawers will all be 1 1/2" wider. Frameless cabinets are easier to access because there is no front frame. However the front frame is what makes the cabinets durable. All the tracks and hinges are attached to the solid wood frame instead of particle board or plywood. Not to mention that the frames of the cabinets are screwed to each other and the frames keep the cabinet square.

The best rating for construction a frameless cabinet can receive in our review is a B. There are many cabinet lines that get A's for construction that will be far less than Dynasty or Ultracraft.

Main Line:

Thank you so much for that list. I'm trying to look some of them up. Are there 2-3 you recommend over the others? When I look at some photos (Wellsford framed), it seems there is space on the front that is wasted around the cabinets. Unless I just don't know what I'm looking at...... Thanks again

The photo is inset cabinetry. which is the most expensive and has the doors in the face of the cabinet. You lose a tiny bit of space on the base cabinets but the wall cabinets are always ordered 1" deeper, thus minimizing the loss of space and allowing your dishes to still fit.

The total space you are worried about and can gain with frameless cabinets is certainly less than 5% of the total interior space of your cabinets. Worst case scenario. Customers often focus on things that don't really matter and neglect the things that do. For example, roll outs and drawers waste almost 20% of a cabinets space but they are convenient and needed.

Look at the big picture. Do you want to spend more to get a lesser constructed product? Look at how you reacted to being told you could get a tiny fraction of additional space with a frameless cabinet. That is why they are popular and why less knowledgeable kitchen designers and architects steer customers towards them. It is complicated explaining how cabinetry is made and how relevant this small portion of additional space is.

Helping customers to appreciate these subtleties is a difficult task, The easy road is simply to be a salesperson first and to sell people the products that look good at first blush. And many customers don't want to be educated and believe they know better. You will only alienate those customers by telling them the truth so often these type of discussions only occur when you are talking to the very best and most ethical designers.

Main Line -

I am very happy you are explaining this to me. I am asking my kitchen guy about the Dynasty Pinnacle to see what he says. What do you suggest if the rollouts and drawers waste space? I do not want any waste if I can avoid it.

Main Line -- I don't want to keep bothering you, but you mentioned that the inset is the most expensive. Is there a framed cabinet that is not inset that is a quality cabinet with good space? Are you familiar with Dynasty Pinnacle?

Dynasty Pinnacle is very well made but it will be significantly more expensive and will require an experienced kitchen designer.

There are many framed cabinet lines that will be less than Dynasty Omega. They will be full overlay doors and look like the frameless cabinets with the doors on the outside of the cabinets.

Any cabinet line that gets an A rating for construction and has a price point listed of 1, 2, or 3 on our chart would cost less than Omega and be better made. And any cabinet line getting a B+ or an A for construction with price point 4 would be better made and very close in price.

The Main Line guy is telling it straight. Listen to him. I only make Architect designed kitchens for the irrevocable trust crowd. The only experience I have with kitchen designers is the junk I demo and what I see as a guest in the houses of others. If you want one of my kitchens I would do it but I don't recommend it for the price.

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Thank you, Ryan, I am listening to him. I'm waiting for tomorrow to ask my kitchen guy to show me different brands that are not frameless. I have no idea what he'll come up with that is comparable in price - but we shall see. According to Main Line, I should be able to find a better-made cabinet for the same price or better. I just have to find the right line. I'll have to ask my kitchen guy for his opinion and see what he suggests. Any opinions about which ones I should ask about?? Thank you

Wow! That's some kitchen, Ryan!