Your kitchen would function similar to this...
Window adjustments may be needed but you get the idea

Thanks! All good advice -- are we better off just going with peninsula+banquet or peninsula+dining table and skipping the idea of the island altogether? Interesting that no one commented on the peninsula options.

The area behind the island would be the primary walkway so I get what you're saying about there not being enough clearance with seating.

I don't want to end up with a space that's too tight or has awkward flow. We were leaning towards peninsula options because it felt more open.

Interesting idea thinkdesignlive...will give that some thought

I have been swamped all day and just got back to your thread. I see everyone has commented on island, distance between perimeter and island and need to have that be sufficient. I agree on the banquette not being the best choice especially given this is your only "dining area". I am also concerned about how far from a sink the refrigerator is and a small prep sink at that end of the island would be useful.

If you had room, an arrangement such as this would work with a banquette on the other side of island, but you don't appear to have sufficient space.

A table extension to your island could work in your space.

Here is another example. You might be able to design a "T" on the end of the island with a table extension. Just pretty tight for island and table, so somehow there needs to be a compromise I believe. A peninsula just will cut up the entire space IMO.

Wow, interesting idea with island extension - haven't seen that before. Could be an option!

Really appreciate all of the ideas. I've updated our potential layouts based on the feedback and also started to explore a bigger change where sink/dishwasher move on to island, fridge moves closer to island and range moves to long cabinet run.

Hoping to find something that ticks all the boxes so we can start knocking down walls soon :)

New layouts attached

In the island sink layout, I'd shift the sink to the middle to allow a trash pullout to left of sink. And consider centering the big window to the table end, or do a long stretch of windows for lots of light. Hopefully it's a nice view!

Oh good point on trash drawer.

We're in Boston, so the view out those windows is the neighbors house 20 feet away! Not a great view, thus not worried about losing windows. Especially since front/back of house have lots of morning/afternoon light.

Love the revised layout (10:07) If it were my kitchen, I would choose that!

I have developed an alternative for your consideration. I have moved the refrigerator to the long wall to keep the distance from sink to refrigerator much shorter. I moved the range to the long wall. I used both island and separate table that could be pulled out or turned for larger group. I put a prep sink in the "prep" area where the refrigerator was in previous layouts. I moved and changed windows to provide light without taking up loads of wall space. I put a long 12" counter with storage below and laydown space for serving and you could put floating shelves either side of window for additional storage and interest. This layout provides the distance requirements for movement and access along with two prep areas. I would also put a microwave below counter toward the refrigerator for maximizing ease of use.

The two chairs on the inside of the long wall area, could be hung on the wall for every day as in Amish style. That would keep walkway unencumbered when cooking. I think this arrangement utilizes the "footprint" of the space quite well and keeps things comfortable and useful. For gatherings, you could have seating for 8. Enjoy!

Instead of a window on the side wall like a normal size, you could do all open shelving with the 12" cabinets below and put a long 12" high window as the backsplash area. It would let light in but keep things private. Might be a consideration.

The first one is DREADFUL it will be a nightmare between the table and the island. I had that and it was AWFUL. I do have suggestion, mainly because your kitchen is so much like mine and I went through this - I will gladly give you some more detailed comments.

Can you please post what is beyond the walls of the kitchen?

Some ideas.

Here's some context on what's behind the walls

This is what I was describing. See previous photos above. I agree w Sophie about not doing an L banquette. If you don't like a banquette at all then I'd consider a long narrow table in the center of the room however it's very tight circulation wise. Let us know what you decide!

Appreciate all of the ideas...really helpful. I've taken a few suggestions and come up with yet another refinement. At the end of the day my wife just really has her heart set on either a peninsula or island with at least 1 stool for a "helper".

I also realized that I was planning for a bigger table than we'd ever need. We will host a small family Thanksgiving and maybe have friends over for dinner a few times per year. So, ~355 days out of the year that table will be used for 4 people eating informal meals. I went with a 30" wide table and made it shorter...we'll get something with a leaf for special occasions.

I also reduced the island to 30" depth to allow for more open space. The only seating will be 1 stool on the end for some company or help for whoever is cooking. Stool will be hidden under overhang most of the time.

I also moved fridge in from the far wall. That will end up causing us to move one window and close up another to accommodate range on that same wall...but seems like a better appliance layout.

Finally I made the door to 3 season porch swing out instead of in to save space.

Still a fairly small place (this is a 1920 colonial revival in Boston...pretty small footprint overall. But thi is starting to feel like the best use of the space for our family.

Any other feedback or ideas?

Thanks again! So helpful

Looks much better. Especially moving the refrigerator which was vital to good functional triangle. Would it be possible to put a run of 12" deep cabinets under window near table. You would have counter for setting things and be amazed at how much you can store in 12" deep cabinets. Even if only under window. Also incorporate as many drawer units as possible. So much better for storing and keeping things organized. You are very smart in posting here before you finalized plans. Easy to do now but not after and doesn't cost anything either now! Good luck. Keep us posted on your progress. Kitchens require very careful measuring to ensure smooth installation.

I agree with Flo's comments above if the run of shelves she is recommending is for the run to the left of the range not under the long window. Cabinet to right of sink will be tight for a trash bin so will you accommodate that in the island? Not ideal for clean up time and is best situated by sink. Are you actually considering counter depth fridge which your layout shows? If not you will loose even more space by that corner. What will the run of cabinets be along the top near the bathroom? Mudroom? Office? Bar? Just curious. Best wishes!

And my last comment is - please don't get hung up on 'have to have an island or peninsula' when you will end up sacrificing function. I have to say your last layout is better than your first attempts but still not ideal. An island in your situation will become a catch all because of your lack of counter space. You have a huge pantry that is really awkward to work in - I suggest 12" deep shelves there so you open up turn around space. I am biased but I still prefer my layout :) good luck with the reno!

I love your latest layout! especially with fridge being moved closer to work triangle. I think the table you are describing sounds perfect -something you can extend when you need to for special occasions. I had a very similar kitchen/dining set up and loved it! our only overall challenge was storage so I would get as much storage out of your island and pantry as possible. Good luck. keep us posted!

Yes definitely counter depth fridge. The trash drawer could go on the other side of dishwasher, or in Island. It's a luxury we've never had...always just a separate bin in the corner, so I'm not really too worried about it being 3 feet from the sink.

Like the idea of 12" cabinets under the window. Not sure if the extra storage is really necessary though and it would make table area tighter. Something to consider though.

The run of cabinets by the bathroom is basically extra storage. We may do 12" depth counter-to-ceiling cabinets on top of the base and treat it like a built in hutch. Not sure yet. Could also be a little office area for kids homework. Not pictured is also a broom closet/extra pantry space through the doorway to bathroom/hallway too. Storage will not be an issue.

We don't need a mud room because the 3 season porch off the back is basically a big 250sqft mud room. We may winterize that down the road.

And agree there's not a huge amount of counter space...but still FAR more than we've ever had. Extending the run of 12" depth cabinets would help too

Some 3D renderings

And more

You can never have enough storage space! Get all you can. I have found that "desk" areas in kitchens are catch all and pretty wasted space. I would use for perhaps a "coffee station", or second prep area. Even without a sink that could be useful and for gatherings good place for a "bar" area. Keeps it out of main flow but near guests. I think it is much improved and you are on the right track. I would do a smaller table with pull out leaves so for every day you have more room. Everyone is used to being squeezed for gatherings.

One more thing! If you have a countertop overlay where a stool will go, make sure you have planned for proper metal support plates under countertop and attached properly to the tops of the cabinets on the island. Common problem. You can't use corbels there because it is already a narrow spot.

Bingo! Good luck! Looks great! Love that you didn't go for the "dead space" in the middle of the kitchen, in an earlier drawing!

Oh good point, I assumed with 12 inch overhang we wouldn't need any extra support...but I hadn't looked into it in detail.

Coffee maker will probably go in pantry area...but could definitely go in that desk/mixed use space instead.

Agree on smaller table that expands for holidays or when we have a larger group...that's the plan. I've been putting a bigger table into the plans just to make sure I plan enough space for when the table expands.

3D renderings look great! if it was my kitchen, I would not run those cabinets underneath the window by the table and just leave it flex space. if you found you needed storage you could always get a beautiful Furniture piece later.

Please get an integrated refrig. Your rendering and placement make the refrigerator very awkward.

What's the advantage of integrated? I was planning to get counter depth French door model, raise it up an inch so door clears countertop to left for full access, and build it in with panels and cabinet above.

Is that what you're referring to? Or one of those fridges that is totally flush with countertops?

I think your plan is good. Do make sure as you state there is room for doors to open fully. Necessary to get crisper drawers out for cleaning. Just getting in the new position is so helpful. You are doing a great job of thinking through each detail. Very important in kitchen design. Also, if you put microwave below counter, make sure you order the "trim kit". It makes for nice finished joint and you need to make sure cabinet also is big enough to accommodate this trim edge. It can be 2" wide. Check manufacturer's specification. Go see one installed for further assurance. Not a job for a trim carpenter. Keep up the great work!

I've done a visual of your kitchen but the dimensions doesn't seem accurate from your render your kitchen seems a little small

In case this hasn't come up: Make the far end of the pantry 24" deep. Use 15-18" deep shelves for the portion you see as you enter the pantry.

Select ALL appliances first and plan around. Counter depth refrigerators are wider and taller to accommodate lost cubic feet in depth.

I like new layout, but also the similar one, I think it's #2. I have no problem with fridge been by itself. you don't need stools with a table right n the same room. I prefer all that counter space, specially when having guests. People always congregate in the kitchen!

A word on building 12" deep cabinets along wall. Yes, you could do a piece of furniture but hard to find something only 12" deep. In addition, I think the visual continuation of cabinets and counter top under the window would create a very nice overall look and make the kitchen look bigger. Normally, I would favor furniture over built ins but not in your space. That's my 2 cents on that topic.

Yeah I kind of like the look of the 12" run...plus the extra storage will be amazing.

My only hesitation now is squeezing in the fridge on that wall. It's 67" from corner to door trim. So 25" for counter leaves 42". Subtract 1" for panel and recommended gap and we're down to 41". 36-41 leaves us with just 5" between left hinge of fridge and cabinets to the left...I'm worried door won't fully open. We could build up a platform for fridge to the left French door clears the countertop and therefore fully open.

Or on the other hand we could put the fridge on the other side by sunroom door and have plenty of space...

Appreciate the advice...we're saving a bundle on kitchen design services :)

I like that second idea better

How big is the pantry opening? If generous, you could steal inches from it to give to fridge wall.

Just a suggestion

Your last rendering looks much better. I never like the fridge to be too far from the sink. Who want's to schlepp the food across the room to be prepped?

FWIW, my French door counter-depth fridge needs at least 11" from a wall or corner to fully open. The bottom of door sits at 34.5" off the floor. I like your platform idea to elevate the fridge enough to allow door to clear countertop.

You are also another threader don't know if you would consider it by closing up the pantry and connecting it with your sun room and by plan view the fridge may look far away from the sink but it's not perspective



https://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/3821f12b003ea9ee_8-0642/contemporary-kitchen.jpg

https://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/1aa147ce05c19b0c_8-2536/traditional-kitchen.jpg

This rendering is great, the one. I saw posted by the OP was IMO awful

Integrated means that the refrigerator is part of the kitchen, has panels, is counter depth and blends into the kitchen making it part of the overall scheme.

The second photo is my kitchen, the refrigerator is on the right and is INTEGRATED into he kitchen. It's a stand alone refrigerator with freezer drawers in another part of the kitchen. Food for thought.

I would go back to the peninsula concept. Unless you have very deep pockets and can rework the long window wall which would allow you to do Claire's layout. A refrigerator in your last layout is just awkward there and too far from the work triangle when moved to the top of the plan. Using the existing pantry niche for the fridge is best for your kitchen. You can get a 36" wide by building a false wall in the back so the fridge clears the side wall by the sunroom door.

And you can swap the range and sink if you like in my last layout. Just depends what type of cook you and your wife are, what your budget is for reworking the appliances.

Last one. I'm out.