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debodun

How valuable is a "reverse painting"?

8 years ago

My mother bought this reverse painting on glass in the mid-1980s. It's in an ornate gilded frame that measures 30.5 x 26.5 inches on the outside. When I had a "house sale", a man looked at it and said he'd buy the frame for $20 if I removed the painting which was virtually worthless. I still have it, but no one will pay even $100 which was the original price my mother paid (that would be almost $250 in today's money). What do you think?


Comments (22)

  • 8 years ago

    Any painting, reverse or otherwise is only as valuable as the desirability of the subject or the reputation of the artist.
    I think your mother got "took"....and I think the guy who bought the frame for $20 took you!

  • 8 years ago

    Linda is correct!


  • 8 years ago

    A quick look at completed auctions on eBay show sales in the $10.00 range. Lots for sale, few bought.

  • 8 years ago

    Lindac is right. A reverse painting is worth only what the buyer will pay unless it is done by an accomplished painter and if the scene is good.

    Reverse painting on glass was popular for decorating antique shelf clocks and to a lesser degree for grandfather clocks. A reverse painting tends to be more simple than a conventional oil painting. Its because the painter can not use the same technique on a reverse painting as he can for a conventional painting on the front side of the medium. When painting a conventional painting, the painter starts with the most distant objects and then adds more layers as he comes forward. The last item laid on a painting are objects nearest to the viewer. This method offers much latitude in what can be visually created. If this type of painting were put on glass and then viewed from the backside, it would be a mess.

    Reverse paintings tend to be single layered painting and as such have more of a sketch or drawing appearance.

  • 8 years ago

    I didn't sell the frame. I still have the painting intact.

  • 8 years ago

    Good....the frame looks to be lovely, worth much more than the painting.

  • 8 years ago

    A chromo lithograph is "just a print"...is the frame old and in good shape on the Christmas night? If so you could ask $100 and be prepared to dicker. Hallen Weiner produced fine quality prints and that scene looks desirable to me.

    Would like to see the other picture closer to offer an opinion....are there any markings/signatures?

  • 8 years ago

    I can't see any signature. Here is a photo of the back, also.


  • 8 years ago

    Looks like a very nice old frame....is that paper or black paint on the back?

  • 8 years ago

    Looks like glazed paper.

  • 8 years ago

    If you look at the print with a magnifying glass, do you see a series of little dots?

  • 8 years ago

    No dots, but when I looked with a glass, I did see a signature.

  • 8 years ago

    I suspect it's not a print...or if it is it's a lithograph or engraving....lots nicer piece that originally thought.

    See what I found on ebay..
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/W-G-Starkey-Original-Seascape-Pastel-Painting-California-Shoreline-WOW-/222463468954

  • 8 years ago

    Here's one of his pictures that is a print with water color highlights...
    I think you best find a reputable art dealer for your 2 works!

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks for your research, lindac. No wonder I couldn't find any info on the artist - I was looking for Starker - misread the signature.

  • 8 years ago

    Here's a Starkey moonscape that actually sold in a "real" auction, not on eBay... Lot 2196, Dennis Auction, Stewartsville, NJ, in 2008.

    You won't be happy...

    The drawing (I'm "old school" so pastels are drawings, not paintings) sold to the floor, not to an online bidder, important primarily because the bidder actually got to see it and decide for him/herself whether it was an original pastel, or a watercolor, or a gouache, or just some sort of print... and apparently was also the only one who cared.

    Did the buyer get a "steal"? Perhaps... but take the time to look at the auctioneer's estimate as well as the actual selling price.

    Simply stated, the lesson is that "value" is built on sales, as many of them as you can possibly find, not on asking prices (no matter how many you can find) so best not to get carried away by any "asking price" you see on eBay.


  • 8 years ago

    When I look on eBay, I specify "SOLD" prices.

  • 8 years ago

    We can't see the sold price unless we "join the club".
    And I grew up in New Jersey, and Stewart'sville is not exactly a big metro area. Unless things have changes a lot since I was last there, it's sort of "sticksville".
    Yep value is built on selling price....and I have learned from attending hundreds of auctions that a piece out of place is going to be a bargain....a Tiffany Sterling tray at a sale of primarily primatives, a stack of old Haviland at a run of the mill household sale an oriental rug at a sale of fine MCM furnishings....etc.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I agree with everything that lindac92 wrote, except that Stewartsville is small.

    It's smaller than that... measured in acres not square miles. But the auction is a good one, 65 miles from New York City and 75 miles from Philadelphia with interstate highway access from both means that the auctions are crowded with (for the most part) knowledgeable bidders. And the auction was among the very early adopters of internet auction services, so they've got that following too.

    Do I think the price they got for that pastel ten years ago is indicative of its actual value, then or now? No, no more than I think the asking price of that one on eBay is, but if you actually want to establish the value of something you have then you simply are going to have to do a lot of math. And to do it, especially for art works, that means you'll have to pay for that information. I don't think anybody shares it for free any more. Yes, you'll have to have an eBay ID to see sold prices there too, but at least that's still free, although results are limited to recent sales. To see older eBay sales info you'll have to subscribe to a separate service that will also cost you money.

    It's for that reason that if you search for "real" auction results, the most important single number is actually the "estimated" price. The auction house (at least the good ones) will have subscribed to and searched all those sales record sites and their their own records as well in order to set the estimate. It's only an indicator of "hope" but together with your research of actual sales it will give you a reasonable idea of value, "value over the years" or "current value" depending on how you choose to edit your data.

    But even the best math is no guarantee. On any given day it might be worth more or less, a little or a lot. That's why how much you "love it" ultimately will have a large impact on "what it's worth".

  • 8 years ago

    It's been almost 20 years ago that Iw as last wandering that section of NJ...but ti was very rural then...I'll accept your statement that it's become an auction Mecca.
    And yes....the "want" factor is huge!!! In the end "worth" is what someone will pay....and some will pay more than others. The task is finding those who are collectors not dealers who have to make a buck.


  • 3 years ago

    You would be a fool to sale a beautiful painting as nice as that one or to remove the frame it's very nice I wish I had one like that

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