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tstaskus

bad switch or light ?

8 years ago

Hello to all,

I'm visiting my brother in P. AZ, and he has an issue w his pool light not working.

Enclosed are pics of the make/model of light and the switch.

Here's what I know:

-When you press the switch, it does not stay in either position, it cannot lock in either on or off
-Light has never worked, has had house for 4 yrs [not noted on orig inspection]
-The switch has 4 wires:
*the red wire is terminated into wire nut [not used]
*the white is tied into 2 neutrals on top
*the blue wire is attached to the black wire on top - the black wire is from the conduit feeding the switch
*the black wire is tied to a red wire going down the conduit w the switches.

This was all wired by the previous owner that was supposed to have been an electrician [cannot contact him].

I don't have access to volt/ohm meter, but trying to seek advice from you guys to determine what could be the problem?

Since the switch seems to be bad [it will not stay locked in either on or off, like it's lost it's locking ability], I'm thinking to replace the switch. If so, does anyone have a recommendation on a make/model and how the wiring on the proposed switch should be attached to current wiring? let me know if you have any questions or need add's pics?

Thank you and pls advise,
tstex






Comments (9)

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    That is an x-10 switch meaning it can be configured for home automation. Is there a chance it could require x-10 to function properly? Also, it's a 3-way switch, and the traveler wire to the other switch is capped. Is there even another switch in the house for it? Honestly, I'd replace that switch with a standard light switch and see if it works.

  • 8 years ago

    I'm not at all sure that's actually a 3-way. I don't know much about X10 stuff, but my guess would be that by connecting the red wire to some kind of remote switch, the power could be turned on and off at the switch in the picture. It might work by sending an RF signal on the red wire, but that's just a guess on my part.

    It's also possible that the on-off toggle isn't meant to lock in either position. It could be a momentary switch both ways. In that case, the actual power switching is done electronically by a triac (silicon switching device) inside the unit.

    If you disconnect the switch's black and blue wires, and wirenut together the wires in the box that used to go to them, the light should turn on when you close the circuit's breaker. If it doesn't, something else is wrong. If it does, then you can connect a code-compliant weatherproof snap switch to those same wires and have ordinary mechanical control of the light.

    All that said, the installation as pictured looks kind of goofy to me. But what do I know?

  • 8 years ago

    It is in fact a 3-way switch. https://www.amazon.com/Master-Dimmer-Switch-XPD3-IW-X10/dp/B003176YY0. From the reviews though, not a very good one.

    You should first determine if the circuit that the switch is on is actually live. If its not, nothing you do at the switch matters. Is the bulb good? Check the basics first if you havent already. Davids advice to bypass the switch and wire the line & load together should turn the light on assuming its wired properly and the bulb is good. That is the free way to test if everything but the switch works. From there you can either tinker with the switch, replace it, or start additional troubleshooting.

    FYI, as it’s an x-10 switch, the rocker wont stay locked in an on/off position. Tapping the top of the switch turns it on, and the bottom turns it off. Its how most remote managable switches operate. You can replace it with any standard single pole switch that is designed to work with the lamp & bulb type. This particular bulb is 3-way which isnt being used, and a dimmer. You can replace with a dimming switch or standard on/off switch depending on what you like, again assuming it works with your bulb type.

  • 8 years ago

    I guess it depends on your definition. What you see there is a single pole switch. It's just that it can be paired with a slave switch so that, to the user, it acts like a 3-way setup. But the slave switch isn't doing any actual load switching. It just tells the master to turn the light on and off.

    That's mostly academic, though. I don't think it matters much in this case. Since the switch's red (control) wire is capped off, most likely this is the only point where the pool light is controlled, unless TJ has an X10 controller somewhere.

    I agree with Steve, just about any kind of single-pole-type switch compatible with the light will work here.

  • 8 years ago

    Thank you very much guys,,,here's an update.

    I did bypass the switch and hard wire the light, then turned on he breaker: the light worked. So, I then asked if the pool was built during a code compliant era of GFCI's. It was and is...I located it, and guess what? It was in the "off" position. reset the GFCI, then I re-wired the switch as originally done. I was able to turn on the light via the switch the first time, but to turn off the light, I had to keep hitting the off part and on the 5-6th time, it finally went off.

    My recommendation is to get a single pole switch and re-wire it so if he wants light at the pool, he can flip the switch at the equip pad. He also has a matching remote transmitter in the house too, but it's in bad shape.

    Thanks again for all your help guys. Your advice again was instrumental in getting this problem resolved. Many thanks, tj

  • 8 years ago

    Guys,

    What is your recommendation on a make and model re a single pole switch to replace the x-10? Also, the x-10 has 4 wires: red, black, blue and white. I looked at some single poles and they had blue, black, green and a red & white candy stripped type wire. how should I wire the switched based on your recommendation? Also, if there is no white/neutral wire, just keep the 2 whites connected. And, what is the red&white alternating wire usually used for? thanks again guys, tj

  • 8 years ago

    I don't know what you mean by "equip pad," so I can't help much with your brother's switch choice. However, if he doesn't need remote control, I see no reason to keep using any kind of electronic switch. I'd replace it with a nice, simple, reliable, inexpensive single pole snap switch. But that's me.

    As far as I know (which isn't all that far when it comes to home automation:), if he wants to keep using an X10 remote control, he'll probably have to buy another X10-brand switch.

    There's also this little voice in the back of my mind muttering something about two different X10 data formats or something, but the voice might be confused. Maybe Steve knows more about that.

    Anyway, if your brother replaces it with a snap switch, installing it is a snap. (Sorry.) He'd just take the box wires that were on the black and blue switch wires, and connect them to the brass colored terminals on the switch. He doesn't need the white box wire in that case, so he should cap it with a wirenut.

    I can't really tell from the photos how this is all set up, but he might need a weatherproof switch and cover plate assembly.

    If for some reason he decides to get another electronic switch, the answers to the wiring question should be in the paperwork supplied with the new switch.

    BTW, just so you know -- unless you're a licensed electrician, or your name is on the home's deed, the law says you can't work on your brother's wiring. If Phoenix? is like most cities, he probably has the legal right to work on his own home's wiring. You can of course stand there and tell him what to do.

  • 8 years ago

    Thank you David, appreciate it.

    sorry, equip pad means where he has his pool pump, filter,/etc and where all the PVC & wiring converge.

    There's a cover up plate over the X-10 so any other switch would be covered too.

    Sage advice on the electrical work of a non resident, and it will be followed.

    Thanks again, TJ

  • 8 years ago

    I don't have much knowledge in X-10, I do more in the newer era of z-wave but that's not what is being used here so it's a moot point. Sounds like everything else is pretty well solved though, glad to hear it. Cheers!