Are you sure that’s structurally sound? That seems like a bigger concern to me.

I think the jagged cuts are not what you should be worried about. There is a sag in that ceiling. I would be more worried about part of the house collapsing.

Emily:

What span chart did you use to look up your replacement beam? Post it with your span and the dimensions of your beam, please.

I’m no professional at this so I just help, but my fiancé knows about the sag in the ceiling.. it’s apparently not structural and everything is sound in the ceiling, it’s just the dry wall? Thanks for your help.

Yes, it's just the drywall. The drywall following the bending overloaded framing. Span chart, please.

The beam you installed is knotted and resting on shims. No. NO!

No, your fiancé does NOT “know about these things”. There is nothing supporting the load from the removed wall. IT IS NOT SAFE. That is why there is sag.

Get in a Pro immediately. It doesn’t matter if it hurts the boyfriend’s ego if it keeps you safe from ceiling collapse. Or worse.

Also that "beam" appears to be swamp cedar from the picture, which would have just above zero structural performance.

Did you actually remove any support posts? You are going to need to at least consult with an engineer to see what needs to stay, get beefed up, or can be removed.

Nobody can, or should, direct you to do otherwise from an internet forum.

In the meantime, don't take anything else apart and if you did remove a post, put one back on the double.

Emily, it may be hard to hear the advice above, but it is accurate. Don't risk collapse because your fiancé 'knows these things'. Unless he brought in a structural engineer for the calculations and pulled a permit, he isn't doing the right thing, even though he knows better. Bring in a structural engineer immediately and post to let us know that you are safe. Load bearing walls are there for a reason.

https://www.thespruce.com/removing-a-load-bearing-wall-1821964

You don’t need a structural engineer. You need a competent framer who can comprehend a span chart (the math is already done) and who has a working relationship with the division of inspection.

I defer to Joseph's superior knowledge I mean this sincerely, it is not a tongue in cheek response.

Actually you may, in fact, require an engineer. Most competent carpenters will be neither inclined or well equip to quickly create the drawings and submit the plans to the county for the calculations on the required changes if any structure was removed. Couple that with the fact that some municipalities will require a engineer's stamp with any structural modifications as well. If he is doing the work himself, what he might pay a competent framer would likely be equal or at least close to what an engineer would charge for a signed and sealed package that can easily be walked through the permitting process.

If you want math unrelated to reality, hire an engineer first. If you want it fixed right and economically, hire a guy that's done this hundreds of times.

There's no telling what was cut out, point loads bearing through a wall may be like "huh, they doubled this stud? out she goes!"

Yeah...those "dumb" engineers. Who you think comes up the span tables there Joseph? Who do you think creates the plans for those homes to be built?

Hopefully the client hasn't dropped the home on their head at this point, but I stand by my original recommendation to just talk to an engineer. If the homeowner is fixing it, the engineer will be much more proficient in drawing up what they will need to bring to the county than a framer would anyway.

If they are looking to hire someone to fix it, by all means....hire the carpenter/framer and they can kill two birds with one stone. If they are going to fix it, the engineer is the better choice.

The first thing that jumped out at me was that shim on the left and the fact that there are no brackets of any kind tying the beam in. If the OP had gotten a permit for this project, I can't imagine any local inspector looking at that without smoke coming out of his ears and issuing a stop work order.

WWltd:

I've spent time in crawlspaces with engineers and their 2' levels. Laughable. I've seen their mathematically correct, but impossible to execute solutions on paper. I've gotten enough of them out of enough trouble to know that these guys put their pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Even us lowly tradesmen.

Do you need a certified mechanic to fix a flat tire? Of course not. You don't need an engineer to size a beam either.

Your analogy is a bit flawed. I don't need a ASE Mechanic to tell me how to fix a flat tire, but I might need one to tell me why the tire wore out to one edge and ate the tire.

Again...for the 3rd time...see my posts above. If the customer has removed structure or is planning on opening up the space and needs to file for a permit at the county office...many will require a stamped set of drawings for modifications like that.

A framer is more than competent to look up a span table and figure out what is needed as is just about anyone with access to this fancy thing called the internet. What a framer isn't probably that good at is preparing a set of drawings to go with the client to file for the modification.

To use another analogy to make a point, it would be like asking your mechanic rebuild your transmission. Can he do it and does he have the tools....sure, but the guy at AAMCO is going to be about 3X as fast and give you a guarantee on it.

WWLtd.

The beam I designed, built, and installed in my father-in-law's kitchen passed inspection the first time. No drawings were required locally. No engineer was required. This is why you start with a framer with a working relationship with inspection, not an engineer. If a stamp is required, the framer will know so and will probably have a recommendation on an engineer.

When your heart beats funny, you don't go to a cardiologist, you go to your GP. She may refer you to a cardiologist, but she may just make you quit drinking caffeine. Had that happen to me too.

Every time there's a load bearing beam question on Houzz, there's a chorus singing "Structural engineer!" That song is over sung. I'd leave choir were I you.

Let's agree - you both have bigly analogies ... meantime, Emily's buried under the rubble with only her ruby slippers showing.

The reality is that those that know what they're doing install the right beam. Those that are ignorant to basic framing call an engineer.

The funny thing here is no one knows what size beam is in place, what it's supporting, and what that soffit is for. It looks like they might just need a nailer for the s.r. hanging off the soffit framing.

I wonder how many times WOW calls in an engineer when installing a replacement window or door. Most old houses have undersized headers in relation to today's codes. Cross your fingers?

I don't know anything about beams but I would be almost certain the popcorn ceiling contains asbestos and when it was cut into, it released asbestos into the atmosphere and when it was thrown out, it was put into regular trash and not into a hazmat site.

I just had the asbestos ceilings in my condo removed and it had to be done by a certified asbestos removal company.

My neighbor who still has popcorn ceiling had a leak and when the ceiling was disturbed to fix the leak, the portion that was disturbed required the work to be done by a certified hazmat company.

Very few popcorn ceilings contain asbestos, and a one time exposure would be inconsequential. But I guess there's more of a chance the popcorn has the big A than the house caving in....

Joseph,

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit. The OP has indicated that they were doing the work at this point.

That being the case, I am guessing you still want a framer to come by and tell them about how to complete a job that they aren't even in the running of getting? Good plan and I am sure the contractor that is busy running around like a 1-armed paper hanger will appreciate that dutiful use of his time.

Either way...seeing as you know neither about the OP or about the municipality requirements (your "anecdotal evidence" is an oxymoron like Jumbo Shrimp), I will let you continue to maintain your position of expertise while not actually knowing what is the OP's needs are or the legalities with regards to what is actually required.

Seeing as the OP hasn't replied, this is more about us sticking to our points than helping the OP. To that end, I bid you adieu and enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

To the OP...get a framer, an engineer, or someone that knows what they are looking at so that you don't drop the upstairs on your head and get someone hurt. At the end of the day, nothing may be required, but without a person of some expertise to make that proclamation, the recommendation is to get some help with it.

ksc36-

Saying that few popcorn ceilings contain asbestos is wrong and irresponsible. Spray-on texture with asbestos fibers was widely used from the mid-1950s until it was banned in the late-1970's (and was still being applied into the 1980's as companies were allowed to use up existing supplies). There are still millions and millions of homes with asbestos-containing ceilings. It's true that not every popcorn ceiling has asbestos, but there is such a large number that do have it that one should make a determination based on lab testing, not assumptions.

As far as one-time exposure, I'm not going to get into a battle of either anecdotal information or epidemiological studies. I'll just say that it's more prudent to not do remodeling work that unnecessarily exposes yourself and your family to asbestos releases.

Asbestos and popcorn ceilings are tangential but as kudzu9 stated, it is statistically likely that a popcorn ceiling contains asbestos because that was almost universally an ingredient. A popcorn ceiling is different than a textured ceiling. It was considered to be a GOOD thing prior to the 1980's.

Before doing any work on a popcorn ceiling that would disturb it, one should at the very least test it to see whether it contains asbestos so one can make an informed decision as to how one wants to proceed - and it is an ecological crime to dispose of the ceiling in normal trash as opposed to a certified hazmat site.

Vinyl tiles manufactured prior to the 1980's are also likely to contain asbestos - safe as long as they aren't disturbed.

All that propaganda and there hasn't been one confirmed case of a homeowner contracting cancer from the single popcorn ceiling they removed.

Here's a fact: Of the millions and millions of popcorn ceilings installed 40,50,60,70 years ago, millions and millions of them are gone and buried in the ground somewhere near you.

What's a snowflake to do?

ksc36-

When you try to double down on your statements with irrelevant information, unsupported facts, and silly insults, you undercut anything you have to say. But believe what you want....no one's stopping you.

ksc36 - That's a ridiculous way to approach any kind of ecological issue - it matters not what ONE person does in terms of polluting the environment but thoughtful people recycle and attempt to live green because they assume that their efforts will be part of other efforts which will result in a better world and environment.

As for whether a homeowner is at risk, that should be a homeowner's informed decision. You stated that most popcorn ceilings don't contain asbestos but the converse is true - most DO contain asbestos because almost all popcorn ceilings were installed prior to 1980 - no one has wanted them for aesthetic reasons for years so no one is installing new popcorn ceilings.

One should make an informed decision - test to see if you have asbestos and then decide how to proceed. But adding asbestos pollutants knowingly to the environment now that it is a known risk is really a disgusting action - just my humble opinion.

You have 2 ceiling heights showing. The portion with the bowed drywall may be constructed using a soffit. Strip off the drywall and see what you have. Repair or remove the underlying framing and once everything is plumb, square and level drywall it again. Look on YouTube for drywall tutorials. If you find a problem with how your beam is performing once everything is opened up post some pictures for more suggestions. It does appear your stud under the beam isn't plumb and could be replaced with one the right length tied into other structure behind it.

I am a licensed civil engineer and it's a bit sad the misinformation I see spread on here from time to time. Without going into unnecessary detail, bottom line is generally if you are doing a remodel and altering your home's structure, you need a licensed civil engineer's stamp on your drawing. Span tables make very broad assumptions, that do not reflect the reality of many existing homes. Furthermore, unlike say a licensed contractors signature, a civil engineer's stamp has broad reaching legal authority which directly serves the public's best interest.

There was an example given above how someone said they didn't need an civil PE's stamp because they made their own drawings and the plans were approved by the city and passed inspection. I am in the middle of a kitchen remodel where I drew up plans for several large window opening on an exterior load bearing wall that was also part of the home's seismic/wind loading shear system. I did my own calcs and came up with a sizing less than what would be prescribed in generic span tables. As a test I submitted my plans without showing my calcs and no stamp. Passed planning on first try, and passed inspection without a second glance. Bottom line is passing an inspection and using it as proof of best practice is really meaningless.

catinthehat:

Your points are well taken. I would not have undertaken the design of several large window opening on an exterior load bearing wall that was also part of the home's seismic/wind loading shear system. I built a header to hold up a 4/12 roof in a non-seismic area.

I've got nothing against engineers, but in my book you guys are subs to general contractors. I'm smart enough to know when I'm out of my league. When I am, I'll call. In the meantime, I dislike seeing homeowners setting money on fire for services they may not need.

For me, the issue would be the competence level of the person doing the evaluation. I know the engineer has a degree, a licence that he had to pass exams to obtain, and a legal responsibility to get the numbers right. So I would have some confidence in what he tells me. The world of contractors, though, is a different one - the wild west, with a whole lot of cowboys (and a few rustlers) in there among the reliable folk. I couldn't be sure that the advice I was getting was sound (unless Joe was giving it). If I I knew a contactor I could really trust, I'd use him; if not, I'd rather spend the money on an engineer and be on the safe side.

Joseph,

Being a homeowner myself, I of course am in the same boat as you with regards to wasteful spending of potentially unnecessary services for a home remodel. There are many situations you would not need an engineer to help you with a design. Adding a simple header for a window/doorway to a load bearing wall through a licensed contractor who knows what span tables to use for the region is an example. It really depends on the situation and the person's competency. I gave this situation some more thought, and it basically boils down to two options for a typical homeowner:

1. Are you willing to accept the life and death risk/consequences of a structural decision/calculation you make? You may not get sued or goto jail for a structural collapse that kills your loved one, but are ready to live with that decision? Do you have a complete understanding about your particular situation to make an informed structural design decision? Are you confident the age of the wood/beam in question is in good enough condition to use span tables for shear, moment, and deflection requirements? Beams can fail in multiple ways. Do you know how to inspect wood for this criteria? Do you know the knott to clear wood ratio required for a certain construction grade of wood listed in span tables? Do you know how to calculate when too many nails, screw, holes is too many? Do you know when it's safe to assume a species of wood, and when you need to be conservative? Do you know how to visually identify a beam that is likely load limited by moment, shear, or deflection? Do you know how to identify a beam that is typically subjected to a distributed load but must be designed for a point load in the same or different direction? Beams that are improperly sized typically do not just collapse immediately, they collapse later under a circumstance not accounted for. Licensed structural engineers spend their careers understanding the modes of failure and designing for them. When a building does not collapse under normal or extreme situations it is not an accident, everything is calculated to save lives. Licensed civil engineers are arguably responsible for more lives than any other professional field, it justifies the difficulty in getting the license.

or

1. 2. Are you willing to spend 3-400 dollars on an engineer like me who will spend a few hours to look at your home, make some quick calculations, and generate a basic drawing with their stamp? The stamp guarantees a sound design with serious legal consequences if that is not the case. Those consequences follow me long after I retire, and include fines or even imprisonment.

No civil engineer wants to provide their stamp without adequate investigation because of how serious of a commitment it is, but we will do it when we are confident in the design. It's our job. My stamp has the power to override provisions in the building code, and forms the legal basis for a claim against a home 20+ years down the road, you could not say the same for other trades.

^ LOL!!

Luckily the local inspectors are intelligent enough to comprehend prescriptive code. Also the engineered beam suppliers have software that calculates common beam spans for their products. So, at least around here, there is no need to waste time and money on an engineer to spec. simple beams and headers.

Do you think that electricians should have to have their systems designed and inspected by an electrical engineer? Far more people die due to faulty electrical than these mythical beam collapses.

Hi ksc36,

Glad you read my post. Regarding your general question, the answer is yes. Electrical engineers can and do design and inspect "systems" as you put it. When you get into bigger residential projects and commercial/industrial systems, these designs may even need to be stamped. Once again this is for the public's safety.

I'm pretty sure that some guy at a lumberyard, who's never seen the house, the plans, or the actual construction of the house, is not going to be able to give me as informed an opinion as an expert, be that an engineer or a competent GC.

And your electrician analogy kind of proves the point I made above: lots of cowboys in the construction industry who don't have the skills or the professionalism that they dhould. Houzz is full of stories about the disasters they cause. If using an engineer at the massive cost of a few hundred bucks takes one of them out of the equation on my house, Im all for it.

So. . . Did the ceiling collapse?

I hope the lack of response is not a "yes".