Now is the time to have best insulation and building qualities...what is your est cost for propane/gallon and electric cost/kWh?...would propane be used for any other appliance in your home?...what are your typical winters like?...keep in mind you might want a propane fueled generator for backup...

IMO

Currently its about $3.00/gallon of propane if you own your tank (which we plan on doing). Electricity is around $0.20/kWh. Propane is being used for our stove, hot water heater, and our backup generator. It gets down below 0 a few times a winter, but for December/January/February average lows are in the 20s and highs in the 40s.

I am in the same place as you -- new construction trying to decide
whether or not to take the cold climate heat pump plunge.
Unfortunately, it was a last minute decision, and I did not have enough
time to do research to be sure of my decision, but, for better or worse,
I decided to go heat pump. Probably going to get the Mitsubishi Hyper
Heat, which is still about 80% efficient at -13 degrees. The backup
heat doesn't kick on until it's below zero. In my area, if buying 500+
gallons (everyone recommends having a 1000 gallon tank), propane is
around $1.90 (fluctuates like crazy). At $3.00 per gallon for propane, I
would be seriously looking at the heat pumps, if I were you.

fuel cost comparison btw heat pump and propane furnaces...using your rates and 3 COP (very conservative) for HP and 95% eff for propane furnaces.

Cost per 100,000 btu of useable heat

heat pump $1.95

Propane:$3.45

Electric baseboard:$5.27

If you are going to be using propane for you other appliances than it makes sense to use it as the back heat source for the heat pumps. Back electric heat strips will cost about $6.00 per 100,000 BTU of heat. You will see a good return on investment.

The propane furnace can be converted to natural gas if and when it becomes available.

Get the model numbers of the furnaces and heat pump that are being offered. SEER rating for a heat pump does mean much, nor does specifying an outdoor operating temperature.

I am a little skeptical how you can upgrade two heat pumps from 18 to 20 SEER for only $800. AC with 20 SEER ratings tend to be pricey. Ask a lot of questions before making any decisions.

@mike_home I do not have the specific model numbers of the units, I'm supposed to be getting information on that later today. I know that the propane furnace is a 96% efficient american standard unit. The heat pumps are American Standard AccuComfort Platinum 20 or 18, depending on the system we choose. I doubt natural gas will ever become available where I live, too rural of an area. Also, the reason for only the $800 difference is with the 18 seer, we still have our propane furnaces, with the 20 seer we will not have the furnaces, causing the cost offset.

I missed the description on the upgrade. Now it makes more sense.

Be aware that the 18 or 20 in the model name usually means a system using this equipment can get "up to 18" or "up to 20" SEER rating. The configuration you get will likely be less. In addition the models may have a similar HPSF or COP value. This means you may get better efficiency in cooling, but the cost for heating will be about the same. Your HVAC contractor is not doing a good job of explaining this to you.

Do you know what will be the insulation values for the exterior walls and attic? Is a heating and cooling load calculation required new construction in Connecticut? If not then one needs to be done for each floor. You should have the HVAC contractor explain the calculation to you. The equipment needs to be properly sized for best efficiency, performance, and longevity.

Yes, again like I said I'm waiting for the exact model numbers so I can look up the specifications on each unit, mainly being interested in the COP. I understand all of this, and my HVAC contractor does not need to explain this to me, having a mechanical engineering background helps with this whole process. The HVAC contractor did have a heat load calc done for our house, and I have spent the time doing my own one as well.

I appreciate your concern, but I was not as worried about the sizing of everything, more just everyone's experience with heat pumps and supplemental heat since I have not had one for my house before.

I'm still a little confused on the pricing. You're getting 2 propane furnaces (option 1). You can then add two 18 SEER heatpumps for only $2200 more?

What is the total cost for each of the three options

PNW. Milder winters than CT but lately the winters have been chilly. The electric "emergency" strip heat is hella expensive. A normal winter month might be $220 - $300. If those strips kick in...look out below! We had $650 one month last winter. Breathtaking.

for the OP, pay attention to AHRI matching system and COP eff rating. Staying on electric heat pump as low as possible outside temp will save you over the more expensive propane backup. Dual Fuel seems a no brainer if operating costs are important to you for heating. Of course the average operating life of a heat pump condenser is shorter than a gas fired furnace. Insist on load calculation especially for heating so you can be sized correctly both HP condenser and propane fired furnace.

IMO

When insulation requirements are made, they are generalized for region. For obvious reasons. Some payback calculations are done based on average fuel costs.

When you have higher than average fuel costs, it makes sense to do significantly over code insulation - just from an economic perspective. Propane is significantly more expensive than NG. And your electricity costs are 80% higher than national average.

But you say in process so I am guessing too late to work on that part.

I had dual fuel in the last house using NG. I decided to forego that and do heat pump only in the current house. You should know that there is no magic crossover temp that makes sense in every situation. With your rates, it should usually be lower than 32 degrees with a typical Seer 18 heat pump. I live in NC. While we are considerably warmer than CT, we do see low temps at times - 10-15 on a really cold winter night.

As a general rule, I would not do dual fuel with propane. Your electricity costs are high so that changes things a bit. Have you considered solar? At $.20, payback is pretty quick. My recent quote is about 15 years with $.10. Get down to 7.5 years and the monthly cash flow is a no brainer when wrapped in a mortgage.

Note - there is some downside to a poorly designed heat pump system. The run times are longer and air flow needs to be greater. In a poorly designed system, this is a bit annoying. Hopefully in 2018, you have ducts entirely in conditioned space and returns in each room.

If you are putting in a heat pump, hot water off the heat pump should be possible, and likely at modest or minimal additional cost (will you already have a hot water tank?), and energy cost lower. If solar makes sense now or in the future, the savings there would also apply to the energy for hot water.

From the rough numbers above (but without the details you're looking into), sounds like heat pumps make more sense.

I will not get into a debate about solar or geothermal...it seems OP is much pass that point. The fuel comparison I provided bear out that a DF system is superior to straight HP with backup electric resistance heat. Plus OP indicates he has other plans for propane use.

IMO

Dual fuel argument makes sense to avoid the resistance heat.

The thought of installing solar panels on a new house in Connecticut makes me cringe.

Propane for other appliances makes this a tougher decision but would still try for all-heat-pump at those fuel prices. Another problem is the ship has probably sailed on building envelope details. Plenty of people doing cold climate heat pumps in climates colder than yours. Don't know anything about that brand and would prefer Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Carrier or Trane.

Have to make sure research has been exhausted on other appliances. Generator probably toughest to do without depending on how rural you are. For the stove, have you checked out induction? Have you ruled out [heat pump water heaters[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/heat-pump-water-heater-for-central-pa-dsvw-vd~5358962?n=45) because of space requirements? You could have a safer, healthier and more affordable home by replacing those combustion appliances with electric.

It costs 1.5 times more to heat the house with a propane furnace than the heat pump with the fuel prices posted. It costs 1.5 time more to heat the house with heat strips than the propane furnace.

The dual fuel system would be the most economical in terms of operating costs.

Maybe but that's making assumptions of the heat pump system's capabilities. A code-built home with good equipment makes those statements debatable.

Don't forget the hidden costs of gas: propane tank costs/rental/refill minimum charges, supply piping costs (including per appliance line items) and venting infrastructure. The venting infrastructure includes risky combustion backdrafting concerns.

We have to assume the AHRI certificate has accurate information for the heat pump performance. I do agree it usually makes more sense to invest in better building and insulation than expensive equipment.

The OP wants to use propane for cooking and other appliances. In this case the investment in the propane infrastructure will be in place.

"The venting infrastructure includes risky combustion backdrafting concerns."

This is as untrue as saying that using an electrical appliance risks causing a short that will cause a fire and burn down the structure while its occupants are sleeping.

I'm not sure I'd hire a builder who views the proper installation of combustion appliances as being risky and unreliable.

We install combustion appliances for clients that want them, but never natural draft gas. Because we better understand their dangers, we are probably a better choice for safer installation.

Look at adoption of make-up air requirements for cooktop venthoods. In understanding this requirement, one might better recognize the added health and safety risks that combustion appliances introduce to a home.

Alright I'm going to try and reply to everyone.

sktn77a: I do not have the breakdown of the prices in front of me, but the total cost including installation is approximately $16,000 vs $18,200 vs $19,000. I did not mention that with the first option we are still getting an air conditioner, just not with the heat pump option.

jn3344: Thank you for your feedback, this is the exact information I was looking for with this post. What was the temperature like for the $650 month?

tigerdunes: Thank you for your opinion. We have had a heat load calculation done.

David Cary: Thank you for your feedback. We have not considered solar, as we could only put them on the east side of our roof, our house is in the middle of the woods so a lot of shade, and we have no room to mount them anywhere besides the roof. And yes, the ducts will all be in a conditioned space.

armoured: We are doing a tankless hot water system, and as explained above, solar will not work with where we are located. Thanks for your feedback.

Springtime Builders: We are going to have propane on site whether we choose a heat pump system or not. Gas stove is a must, as well as a propane generator. "You could have a safer, healthier and more affordable home by replacing those combustion appliances with electric." I do not agree with this at all, but that is for a different conversation on a different day. There's also no hidden costs with gas, I have them all accounted for. We are purchasing our own propane tank and are having it buried. All supply piping is accounted for as well as any ventilation requirements.

Thanks for your comments Elmer J Fudd and mike_home.

Sorry but when health and safety are involved it's worth some unwelcome equine abuse. Very few high performance builders are including gas in new construction. Most building scientists and energy experts are recommending against indoor gas burning. This is mainly for health and safety reasons but cost-effectiveness is in play too.

Trusting a somewhat arbitrary CFM requirement number, make-up air fan unit with multiple moving parts and unknown quantity of negative house pressure puts a lot of faith into current construction industry. Most who study the home as a system reach similar conclusions. Suggesting it's not safer to eliminate combustion exhaust as a source of pollution is a stretch.

It seems like most people I grill on comparing induction to gas have not spent much time with induction. The vast majority who give induction a real chance, never look back.

That's gibberish, sorry.

Actually, induction used to be my first choice for a cooktop. But after reading reviews and using it for myself at a friend's house, I decided that I still like gas more.

sktn77a: I do not have the breakdown of the prices in front of me, but the total cost including installation is approximately $16,000 vs $18,200 vs $19,000. I did not mention that with the first option we are still getting an air conditioner, just not with the heat pump option.

Wow, no brainer.... option 2! You can set it up to run propane vs electric primary heating, depending on the whim of the propane and electric prices!