Help me think through this wiring setup

8 years ago

I want to install a ceiling fan controlled by a remote. I have access to a switched ceiling can light with a box within 2 feet of where the fan will go. The wall switch is wired with 14-2 red and pink wires while the ceiling has 14-2 with white and orange wires. I want the fan to be continually powered while the light I want on a dimmer switch. Actually the light is already on a dimmer the question is how can I get continuous power to the fan.

I'm not sure if it's possible. How would you wire this?

Featured Answer

DavidR

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

Installing new conduit from another source is going to be tougher than fishing cable. But if the conduit from the light switch box to the light isn't already stuffed full (here is a PDF chart), you should be able to pull another switched or always-on hot through it. Then you'd install another length of conduit from the light box to the fan box.

If the new hot is on the same circuit as the light, and is being run through the same conduit along with the light's hot and neutral, then yes, you can extend the new hot and the existing neutral from the light to the new fan box.

Remember that you have to pull properly marked THHN or THWN wire with conduit. You can't strip the jacket off NM (Romex) cable and use the individual conductors, they aren't marked.

When I pull extra wires through conduit, I generally disconnect all the wires, and twist and solder the stripped ends together with the end of a single extra length of wire. Then I pull the whole bundle back through the conduit, leaving the new single wire in the conduit. I add the new wire(s) to the bundle, solder it/them in place, and use the single wire to pull the enlarged bundle through again. Wire pulling lube (it looks and feels just like KY jelly!) is really helpful for pulling.

In addition to conduit fill, you'll also need to mind box fill at both existing boxes. The fill calculations can get a little complicated, but briefly, allow 2.0 in^3 for each #14 conductor and 2.25 in^3 for each #12 conductor. If the light box has a stud or bracket for attaching the light, count that as if it's another conductor. For figuring the fill at the light box, your new hot counts as only one conductor, as long as it passes through the light box unspliced. If you splice it there, it counts as two.

So you'll be adding one conductor to the switch box, and 2 conductors to the light box. If you replace a single snap switch with a double snap switch (2 switches on one yoke) to get your fan switch, you don't have to count any additional box fill for that (it's per yoke, not per switch).

To calculate whether you need to rip out the existing box(es) and replace them with larger ones, you'll need to know the cubic inch capacity of each box. On this page you'll find a chart with some standard box sizes, and also more info on calculating box fill. If your boxes aren't on the chart, they should be marked internally somewhere with their cubic inch capacity. You'll need a strong light and good eyes to find the marking.

You should pull a permit for this and get it inspected.

Have I forgotten anything, or made any errors, folks?

If all this seems like a lot of trouble, well, that's what you pay the pros for. :)

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Comments (9)

DavidR
8 years ago
Your description seems odd. You say you have "14-2," but I don't know of anyone manufacturing 14-2 cable that's sold in the US with any wire colors other than black and white. (IIRC, black and red NM cable, called "heater cable," is available in Canada.)

With those wire colors, I'm guessing that your house is probably wired with conduit. That can change the situation quite a bit. Are you in Chicago?
gallagher0001
Original Author
8 years ago
In the Chicago suburbs. You are right conduit is required by code here. The 2 wires at the ceiling light are on a dimmer. I'm trying to get continuous power to the fan which is going in about 2 feet away while maintaining the pot light on the dimmer. It seems like I'd have to fish a new hot wire to the fan. If I did that would I need to also fish a neutral with it? Or can I connect to the neutral at the light. Fishing wire seems a bit risky and I've never done it. All thoughts and directions appreciated.
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Steve J
8 years ago
Seems to me you have two options here. Option 1 is to remove your dimmer on the lights and switch to a smart light with dimming, and potentially a smart fan controller. Or, option 2 which would be my preference, run a new 14-2 from a new switch to the fan. If that seems daunting, do the right thing and call an electrician.
dennisgli
8 years ago
Are we assuming that the conduit goes directly from the switch to the light here?
gallagher0001
Original Author
8 years ago
It doesn't the colors of wires at the dimmer and light are different. Here's another thought. My new ceiling fan can be controlled with a remote, if I remove the dimmer and send non switched power to the fan first, could I find a recessed light remote controlled with a built in dimmer? Would that solve the problem? If so any idea where to find such lights? 6" round recessed. Thanks
Ron Natalie
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
There's no official standard for wiring colors other than white (or gray) and green.
Steve J
8 years ago
I think you'd have to use some smart lighting, such as Hue or Lux or Lutron Caetta something like that.
DavidR
8 years ago
It's impossible to tell without seeing the installation, but a strong possibility is that the conduit goes from the switch to one light, then (in different color code) on to one or more additional lights. In that case you'd have to pull your new hot from the switch, through the intervening lights, all the way to the light closest to your fan. It's a bit tedious, but pulling wire through conduit is almost always easier than fishing cable through walls and ceilings.

I'm not a big fan of remote controlled anything, especially ceiling fans. This thread is one reason. I'll take real switches, thanks.