Window1 & others...comments have been made on how I came to my allegedly bad decision to purchase Pella windows from Lowe's. So here goes...I'm looking to replace 6 wood casement windows in my Mother's house. These windows are original to the house, about 25 y/o. I do not know the brand name, builder's grade I'm guessing. About 12 years ago, Mom replaced ALMOST all her windows with Pella 450 & 750 series. They are wood windows, not vinyl. There are 6 casement windows she DID NOT replace with Pella's & after 25 years, those 6 are going bad. I started my window research by reading up on windows in general. I read reviews (even a book about windows), made inquiries to window installers about what they consider is the "best" window, reviewed local window companies as well big box stores, vinyl vs wood. You name it, I probably read it. I chose 3 local independent window companies. Some did their own installation, others contracted out. As I mentioned in my original post, each company tore the others to shreds. Some came with gimmicks like bringing in a heat lamp. Some offered monetary incentives if you made a decision THAT day. Since the quotes were thousands of dollars apart, I felt compelled to interview even more companies. Then came all the annoying follow-up phone calls including some who were willing to drop their prices. BTW, I live in the Chicago area & all the local companies had their "own" windows, claiming those windows had been manufactured to their specifications & therefore better than others. It was a little harder to review those local companies as the windows they installed were not brand names like "Pella" or "Anderson". I had to take a breather. The Pella's my mother installed 12 years ago have served her excellently, absolutely no complaints about leaking, condensation, etc, etc, etc. On the advice of an acquaintance, we looked into Lowe's & ended up choosing them to install. They will putting in the same windows my Mother already has had for 12 years, the Pella 450's. The price was reasonable & the warranty great! To those who bitched that Lowe's hires subcontractors, ours does not. There is only one window installer (plus 2 helpers) & he has been installing windows for over 2 decades. As for the quality of Pella's...they are fine. My Mother is 88. She's not going to stay in her house forever. I understand that there are "better" windows but one must take into account many factors when making a big household purchase. Not everyone needs or wishes to pay for "the best", "best" being an opinion.

May I add, I now think window salesman are a notch above child predators. The gimmicks, the BS, the lies, the besmirching of other companies...I was rolling my eyes hearing their spiel. Again, the bottom line is that there are many quality windows in various price ranges based on what one can afford & what one is looking for in a window. If I lived in Hawaii, I'd be thinking something very different. Look for installation expertise & warranties.

BTW Window1, I am a medical professional & have handled my finances so adeptly, I retired at age 50. Living the dream here in my brand new custom ranch townhouse with (OMG) Pella windows! Taking a month trip to Southeast Asia, leaving Monday. What are you going to be doing Monday?

I knew you could sum it up quickly.

May I add, I now think window salesman are a notch above child predators.

I laughed so hard I spit out my coffee!

8K is ridiculous. my husband is a contractor and installs sliders/windows, you name it. charges next to nothing, really. shop around. the slider can be had for under 2K, and hire your own installer. I'm astonished at the mark up window people charge. My husband did a friends windows. The friend got a quote for vinyl retrofit (nothing fancy. pretty common around here. windows run about 200 each, wholesale) . they were going to charge him 16K for everything. (there wasn't that many to do. maybe 8 or so?) my husband did it for half of that and made quite the profit.

Several people asked for details on how I came to my conclusion. The above is the details. You saw how long the posting was. You didn't have to read it.

I don't think anyone on Houzz appreciates acrimony & belittling. People are here to get answers, not jeers. Like the original poster, I was just as perplexed about what I thought would be a relatively easy purchase. I may know medical jargon but I don't know window talk & it doesn't help that we are dealing with salespeople who really don't have the best interests of the consumer in mind.

Window1 knows nothing about me. Turns out, I am a doctor & have made sound decisions all my life. Had I not, I'd have gone with the 1st window hack who tried to sell me 6 windows for over $12,000.00. I used to ignore divisive talk like this but I'm done with that. If you act like an ass, I'm going to call you out.

I am a professional in the industry. The Renewal by Andersen product is nice, but it is not ever worth what they charge. You would be much better off selecting your own contractor to install either Andersen A-Series (fibrex exterior w/ wood interior) or Marvin Integrity Ultrex windows. That being said, unless you are in the extreme southeastern corner of California, vinyl windows are still your best buy. Vinyl windows last longer, are more efficient, have a better warranty, and are typically easier to operate. By the way, I'm in Pennsylvania, so my advice objective as it's going to get. If you'd like more detailed info on any product, I'll answer what I can.

@Simply Great Windows, thank you! I just spoke with a Marvin person yesterday, and have an appointment tomorrow with someone who installs Milgard. The only vinyl we'd consider are the new Milgard Trinsic series because of their low profile frames; otherwise, the rest seem quite bulky. The home is mid-century modern, and the current aluminum original windows (circa 1968) are great because they have little to no frame.....but they also are single paned and do absolutely nothing but keep bugs, critters and rain out. We want to try as much as possible to keep that minimalist look, and since aluminum windows are no longer allowed in California, its not an option. Are you aware of any other thin profile vinyl windows on the market? I did like the Marvin window's Everwood interior, because we also would prefer not to have white interior.....which seems like an impossibility with vinyl.

Beth, I'm in agreement with you about the mark-ups. I also agree there are plenty of talented & fair people in the construction world who work for themselves or free lance...but where are they? I'd be happy to purchase my own windows for wholesale & search for a reliable installer but that isn't so easy. Can't buy a window when you don't know what to get, what you really need, the quality of one window VS the quality of another. As for locating an installer, not so easy either. You are at the mercy of asking friends & neighbors for recommendations or going to homeowner web sites like Angie's List. Many people are also interested in warranties. Will your brother-in-law (friend, cousin, neighbor) replace your window for free when it fails in 3 years? Its like the medical world I am familiar with. When someone in my family needs medical care, I can direct them. For people who nothing about health care, beware. The original poster was just starting out the process of window buying & like me, was trying to find a good fit of window to installer to price.

@KWS, yeah, going from aluminum to vinyl is a shock to the system for sure. Anything less than 2.75" from edge of frame to visible glass is going to be a vinyl window you wish you never bought. So, in that case, I'm going to push the Marvin Integrity ALL Ultrex windows. Those are going to be a fairly minimal frame, and they're starting to offer them in Ebony/black interior and exterior. So, you should be able to achieve a minimalist look without the white interior. Actually, the black interior is really nice because your eye tends to look past it, making it even more minimalistic than it is.

samondragon - "I don't think anyone on Houzz appreciates acrimony & belittling. People are here to get answers, not jeers."

samondragon - "If you act like an ass, I'm going to call you out."

samondragon - "May I add, I now think window salesman are a notch above child predators. "

A bit sanctimonious, don’t you think?

@Simply Great Windows, this is great information! The Marvin person told me yesterday that black was now a standard exterior color, but didn't say it was also for interior. That is what our preferred finish would be. And I'm assuming cheaper than the Everwood as well.

One thing you may be able to answer for me, as I've received differing info from differing companies. In a replacement scenario with aluminum, is retrofit installation okay or should we really do new build? I don't fully understand the advantages or disadvantages of either, although I'm sure new build installation comes at a premium.

@simplygreatwindows- thank you for your input. We are looking at Marvin, wood interior, aluminum clad exterior at suggestion of our contractor. We are in southern New England

Any comments?

I've already moaned about how bad the Weathershield windows are in the house we bought a few months ago. They have replacement part available but just try to get info and work with them.

@KWS- we did new construction windows in our last replace because there was a lot of rot and poorly done siding/window trim. Because so much was hidden until it was opened, we just thought that made sense. We used Anderen 400 series for that; and also because we have done the replacement window drill a few times in the past, albeit the vinyl with the loss of glass size as you refer to. Was never happy with interior vinyl.

@KWS, retrofit and new build (or new construction) aren't really applicable in your scenario. Those terms generally apply when there is an existing wood window. Your entire aluminum window frame should be removed. The real question is whether to use a flange/fin for the new install. If you have stone or brick on the exterior, this is a non-issue as it's not possible to use a flange/fin. You should go with the advice of the contractor you feel the most comfortable with. That being said, I don't like flange/fin installs. When a house settles, opening do not settle square or plumb, and you can end up with one side of an opening settling a 1/2" out with the other side settling a 1/2" in. This can make a flange install difficult because it causes the window to want to pull out of square/plumb. Still, a competent contractor on-site should make that call.

@mail4tar, Marvin Ultimate windows are nice, and are a perfect fit for New England. They are probably the most historically accurate window available. Their extruded aluminum exterior makes for a really durable product, and the wood has the right look and feel for your region. Just for comparison sake, you might consider Pella's Architect Series Reserve line. It's also an extruded aluminum exterior. The incentive Pella drives is their lifetime warranty on wood components. Take a look at both. Go with the one you like. You won't make a bad decision either way.

@ Simply Great Windows, interesting. Everyone so far has used those terms, and I've somewhat been confused. So basically you suggest, based on what I've told you (!), that just total removal of the old window is the best bet. That is consistent with one contractor that has come out, and one that is coming tomorrow. We have a wood exterior, which apparently makes it easier to just cut out the old window.

Again, thanks for your comments - I'll now sound a lot smarter (and less gullible) with the window folks!

Two different issues..."acting like an ass" was in reference to a commenter who said I was stupid & financially naive because I was purchasing an item he did not think well of. A better approach might have been his explanation of why that product wasn't good & what he thought would work better for me. You can look at his post above.

Sanctimonious means making a show of being morally superior. I think me NOT jeering at others would be considered morally superior to one who deprecates right off the bat. He was rude & I called him out on it. Maybe you didn't like the way I worded it but I gave him 2 examples of how I am not like his presumption of me. I'm actually the exact opposite of what he called me. Had he read my post, he'd have seen how I spent weeks learning about windows in effort to make an educated purchase. In the end, & for a variety of reasons he knows nothing about, I made a decision he he didn't like & he chose to disparage me instead.

The "notch above child predator" was my comment about the window salespeople who I hoped to rely on for expert advice but instead was left with a less than favorable opinion due to their sales technique, mark-ups, sales gimmicks, down right lies, etc. One told me they had the only windows in the USA approved for installation in Europe. What? Is that a serious selling point? OK, when I move to Europe, I'll look you up.

I'm probably going to get comments for the "child predator" thing. I profusely apologize as THAT is a not a subject for joking. I should have given it more thought...maybe something like a "notch below Trump".

@KWS, If you do in fact have aluminum windows, there's no part of that window that should stay. The whole thing should go. When there is an existing wood window, that frame can often stay, while the guts get removed. A retrofit or replacement is then inserted into the existing frame. The new construction option means the whole frame gets torn out and everything gets redone. But neither of those terms are really applicable in your case. In theory, the new construction term is the closest fit, but a flange install is not a requirement.

Simply Great Windows, if I didn't already purchase I'd buy from you! I'd have loved it if a window company came in & told me "this is what I would do if I were in your situation" as opposed to a dog & pony show.

@samondragon, no dog and pony show here. Just the facts.

"I'm probably going to get comments for the "child predator" thing. I profusely apologize as THAT is a not a subject for joking. I should have given it more thought...maybe something like a "notch below Trump"."

Yeah that would have been much better. Both put-downs are indicative of someone with a sick and twisted mind. First, child predators are part of your casual conversation, and then you lower the discourse by bringing up President Trump. He has about as much to do with this issue as the salesman you disparaged who brought Europe into the sales pitch.

Who knew "doctors' could be so classless.

@Simply Great Windows, great info, thank you again. This has given me a lot of good context and a better understanding of the whole process, products, etc.

Shoot at that price you could have them custom milled!

Sad to hear Weather-shield is now a poor product. Our architect recommended them over Anderson & Marvin at the time. After Katrina (2005) We had to change out our sliding door (Weather-shield ALL wood--20 years old) and some crank casements. The disgusting Anderson door is CRAP - we didn't realize Lowe's/Home-depot Main brand products are different build than straight from a rep or company. The supposed "energy efficient" required me to staple felt insulation--and that was the 2nd door--the first was a Jen Weld so poorly built that the rep for the company gave us our money back on the spot! We had Home Depot install and it is awful. The 2 Anderson windows also from Home Depot (buying them at the time from a company was impossible as stock was depleted and back log was still months out!

Our house is almost 100 years old and our original windows need replacement. Fortunately we have at least 3 companies in New Orleans that specialize in old windows retrofitting/rebuilding them and they seem to be similar in costs as the higher ones.

A caution on those slick multi-layered, gas-filled windows and doors. Over time they leak, allow moisture in and hence mold/mildew. We are exploring different options.

As a last suggestion, Houzz did an article on metal windows --maybe you should look the company up and see what they have. I know it won't be cheap.

My only other advice is do you know any engineers? I worked for the contractor that built the Space Shuttle External Tank and when I'm confronted w a situation like this I tend to call my friends and ask what THEY would do. If its good enough for an engineer, its good enough for me!

@simplygreatwindows

thank you for sharing your knowledge. We will look into both products you suggested. We have a traditional center entrance hip roof colonial and want to keep reasonably close to the original style. Having read your comments to KWS about the aluminum- I would like your opinion for us as regards a "replacement"window vs tear out. Sounds like your recommendation is to replace the "guts" if the wood frame is ok- but maybe won't know until the work is in progress? Less cost due to less labor for replacing vs tear out I'd guess. Not sure if product is less as well. Want to to the correct job. :)

I know that some of the trim boards do need to be replaced.

Thank you much!

@mail4tar, it’s difficult to say without seeing the project. The advantage to the insert is that labor is cheaper (the materials might be slightly more but the total cost should be a significant savings), and unless there are signs of water damage inside the house an insert is a suitable install. The downside is that you’re setting a window inside a window, which means you’re losing visible glass. I generally find the glass loss on a double hung is about 2” total width and 3” total height. The advantage to a full tear is that you’re essentially keeping your existing glass dimensions, and if you’re concerned about prior installation you get to make sure it’s all done right this time. The downside is cost. For us, I’d say it’s at least a couple hundred dollars more per window, and specs and job-site details can drive that up. Another thing to consider with cost is interior casing. For an insert, it typically doesn’t need to be stained or painted since it’s staying in place. For a full tear, it‘s all new, so there’s going to be added cost there for painting/staining. A competent installer will be able to tell if the existing wood frame is suitable for insert. If you have interior trim that is difficult to reproduce or the finish is difficult to reproduce that’s a reason to go insert.

@simplygreatwindows

excellent info and explanation. Lots to consider and I really appreciate it! Thank you again-

yuck. that Window1 person should be ashamed. This is Houzz - seriously? Grow up.

Goodness gracious. What a devolved and pathetic thread this turned into.

Comparing salespeople to child predators...yeah. That's not abhorrent in the least. Nothing like taking a crime that is life altering for those that are victims and making it a punchline.

Not surprising, the same person claims that they are retired at 50 as a feather in their cap. Holy Moly. Is this adult behavior?

I definitely see posts that are shameful and they aren't from Window1.

Sammydragon, Trump is below or above a child predator?

i would have compared to a real estate agent.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting this level of entertainment from a post about windows. Who knew?!

"Taking a month trip to Southeast Asia, leaving Monday. What are you going to be doing Monday?"

On the obnoxious scale of 1-10, that rates a 12. Your posts show a self-important smug person who knows nothing. I am not surprised you were in the "medical profession". Go ahead and buy the windows you want, stop boasting, stop looking for validation, and leave the good people of this forum alone.

Mark Twain said "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

Come on, people now! There's enough self-importance and sanctimony to go around. Can't we stop the reflexive urge to assume the worst about others and their intentions? Sheesh.

Mary Oliver said "When will you have a little pity for every soft thing that walks the earth, [yourself included]?"

A good weekend to everyone.

I love quotes! Napoleon Dynamite said, Gramdma just called. You should go home because your ruing everyone’s lives and eating all the steak.

“Tina you fat lard come get some dinner. Tina! Eat the FOOD!” was also one of Napoleon's quotes

If you let the obnoxious tone and statements go without calling him/her out on them, it's enabling and encouraging them to continue since the poster will assume we are all in agreement and/or awed by his/her awesomeness for the "extensive research", Pella is the best, the pedophile analogy, the trip to Southeast Asia, etc.

I don't know...I think it's difficult for all of us to see in ourselves and our own judgments the very same things we see so quickly in others (sanctimony, obnoxious tone, etc.), but I think we should try!

Okay, I promise to go back to reading threads now!

Update.......I got one quote back so far from another company......$22k for all Marvin fiberglass and $19k for all Andersen 100 (essentially the same as Renewal, from what I understand). These two quotes also included 3 sliders, whereas the Renewal only had 1 slider. These are much more palatable.

We’re the other windows casements or double hungs? not Sure. I would say the Andersen’s are basicall the same, just the same material.

All the same windows quoted, with the exception of more sliders in these two new quotes. I had them spec out the same types for each of the windows - no casements or double hungs. Only picture, gliders, one awning, and the sliders.

This is an ancient thread but I loved it. I need a slider to replace a single inswing patio door to free up space for dining table. I had an appointment with Renewal by Anderson today and they canceled 40 mins before the appointment. So I came here for some advice and I’m now very happy they canceled.

@Laralaine, do you have a material preference for the door?

We ended up going with fiberglass new construction windows. They were way better priced and thinner profile, but just ok. Fast forward to our new house, and we went with Milgard Trinsic vinyl replacement (replaced 1960s aluminum single paned) and we are happy! I don’t see a huge difference between the two. But both bettee than the Renewal price.

KWS I have all Millard windows and I’ve been looking to use them for the slider as well. I’m not a fan of sliding patio doors but it’s the best solution for the space issue. When we got this house at auction in 2013 it was quite a mess. We took out the old slider and went with the single glass patio door. I love the door and the windows on either side but it’s time to make a change that will improve my dining spot. I don’t know about Millard Trinsic but will check them out. Thanks !!

Oberon476 All my windows now are Millard vinyl so I guess I need to stick with that material for the slider as well.

Millard or Milgard?

Sorry. Milgard . Didn’t have my glasses on oops.

You do not have to stick with the same material at all. I probably would be there are no rules that you have to. I would just be certain to purchase a quality door.

I'm going to say something on this very old post. I hope everyone is happy with the choices they made on their windows and doors. So are we. We replaced all 17 windows in our house late 2022 with Renewal by Andersen (some single casements, some double and triple sliding windows) and are ecstatic with the results. Comments about trying to find windows, find a contractor (our always reliable fantastic contractor that we've used for years said no to doing the project due to the size and complexity of the windows), etc. are true. Was RBA expensive? Yes, chokingly so! BUT....the team that did the measurements, and the installation, were superb, and we could not recommend them more highly. One stop shopping as they say, We would go with them again in a heartbeat.

I’m glad to hear you’re happy with the service and windows by the RBA folks. I think it’s probably like anything else, when you find a great team of people who do a wonderful job.