Great, thanks for that link... :-)

My recommendation is that you get LOCAL advice about which roses do best in "no spray" gardens in your area. It is all location, location, location - like real estate. Roses which are clean in my no spray garden here in Northern Calif might be horrible in yours. Perhaps your local rose society has members who also have no spray gardens? Would not hurt to look into that.

Jackie

I haven't used them myself because they're located back east, but I've heard nothing but good things about the nursery Roses Unlimited. I understand they send out big, healthy plants and that the staff are knowledgeable. You might give them a call and look at their offerings to find out what roses are available and which will do well in your area. I believe their roses are own-root.

Thanks, both good ideas. I think my timing is not great. I did find another thread, suggesting Palatine for roses, that people are happy with, but I couldn't find what I was looking for and some roses I might have considered, were all sold out already. I guess the season for making purchases started without me. Anyway, even that was without taking 'no spray', 'disease resistant into consideration because it was not a variable you could search for on their site.

I'll take a look at Roses Unlimited. Maybe I'll find something there.

Jacqueline, your suggestions for ways to gain the information that might help are good ones, just time consuming. I really wanted to order a rose in the next few days and don't really want to take the time now to do a lengthy search for information. I agree about location as an important criteria and I always take into consideration the location of any GW member making recommendations and do ask for recommendations for New England. No spray gardens seem to be few and far between.

I think what I'll need to do is just visit any of the recommended rose suppliers and see if I can find what I'm looking for that way. That seems the simplest thing to do in the time frame I have available.

Thanks. :-)

What is the rush? Are you trying to plant it now vs. the spring?

Yes, exactly. Too many springs, I wish I had done more the Fall before to reduce the amount of work I have to do in spring. I'd like to have time for other things next spring. [g]. And the weather is very cooperative right now and I have the time and energy.

! Gotcha! I really don't think it's the nursery that makes the difference but the rose itself, although getting big healthy root system doesn't hurt! I gently by bands and grow them up so suggestion such as High Country roses Etc probably isn't going to cut it for fall planting. I would personally look at Chamblee or ARE. The former ships 1 gallon roses and the latter ships 2-gallon roses so that gives you a head start. Although not in your color preference, Arosa is Rock Solid for me is pink pet. Munstead wood is chlorotic for me but may do better in your neck of the woods. It does keep its leaves however. Milano kolorscape is also very good but no fragrance. The Cardinal colorscape is also meant to be very clean. Besides color, I don't know what your preferences such as fragrance size shape. Climbing Crimson Glory has shocked me with it's health so perhaps the bush form is good as well, but hopefully others can pipe in if they have that.

Antique Rose Emporium has large size plants that can work with fall planting. Heirloom Roses and Roses Unlimited have smaller plants, but nice quality.

My garden is no-spray; blackspot is so endemic here that no matter whom you order from, I think the blackspot will always be in the garden.

Roses get planted in spring where you are. End of story, Complete stop.

Do not buy own-root roses. They will disappoint you. Unless a rose is completely, totally tip hardy, New England does not get enough summer heat for them to thrive.

Buy roses from Palatine. They are the replacement Pickering.

As for what you are looking for, that is a tall order. It seems that the fragrance gene and the blackspot gene are close together in darker repeat blooming roses. So you can have any two of these three - repeat bloom, fragrance, or disease resistance. Personally, I gave up on the repeat bloom.

You've already said this, but I think it bears repeating. Pay NO attention to what anybody west of the Appalachians says about disease resistance. They have no clue :(

I didn’t mean to say I would plant the rose this Fall. By the time I choose and purchase and receive a rose, it’s probably going to be late September and I’d think not enough time to get them planted with enough of a cushion before frost. I’d just like to get one chosen and a nursery chosen and make an order that will arrive bare root in early spring.

@ vaporvac - I’m sure the rose itself is a big part of it, but to me, the practices of the nursery to provide conditions that don’t let disease get a foothold make a difference too, and the effort or lack of, that they make, shows up in the experiences of their customers.

Thanks for suggestions for other nurseries.

On varieties, My bed already has Julia Child which is a butter yellow, not pale, not gold. And I’d like a color that is at least saturated and not pastel. If I have to give up one thing, I guess it would have to be the color, but I’ve done that in the last 2 rose purchases and I keep hoping I’m going to come up with a red. But - maybe a white or a deep pink to go with the yellow would work too.

I love the color of Munstead Wood - and I’ve had David Austins that did okay for me for a few years. What do you mean by ‘it keeps it’s leaves’?

Fragrance is more important than color. I like the descriptions I read of all the Kordes roses, but not many have much fragrance. The ‘Julia Child’ that I have has a small blossom, so I’d want to try for a larger one.

I took a look at that Climbing Crimson Glory and I love it! Where did you get yours?

Here is the photo I saw of it, that is just so pretty.....

Krista - Sorry you have a lot of blackspot problems. Thankfully, I’ve not had that issue for awhile. I have had a few roses in the past that had them and I just got rid of them. I only have a few roses right now. Julia Child which doesn’t get it. Prairie Sunrise, that is clean as a whistle, Aloha and New Dawn, Penelope - none of those have it. I tried David Austins and Meidland roses a few shrub roses that ended up with Blackspot. The Meidland was the worst.

Hi Mad Gallica - Funny, today I was looking at some of my old posts asking some of these same questions a few years back and the posts you made then. Always very helpful. I haven’t bought a rose since Pickering went out of business.

Thanks for the tip on the ‘own root roses’ because I had forgotten that and was thinking maybe that was my best bet.

Palatine - I may try a couple from there. I’m not expecting I will find exactly what I want and I already looked today and didn’t come up with anything I had to have, but I’ll give it a second look.

Yes, I’m trying to have it all. The reason is simply because I just don’t have a lot of full sun. I have one 20x20 bed that has to hold every plant that needs full sun in my garden. So if I add a rose there and it doesn’t repeat, it’s a long season, taking up space without bloom and probably deteriorating foliage. I’ve tried some roses that are supposed to tolerate less than full sun in other areas of my garden, but they just did not do well.

I’ve stuck with Julia Child for 5+ years and I added Prairie Sunrise and Aloha in my last Pickering order which have been very disease resistant and mild to moderate fragrance, and I have concentrated on other garden plants for the past few years. But, I’m ready to try another rose or two.

And at this point, I’m looking at them no different than as an annual. If I get a season or two from them before some flaws I don’t enjoy, out they come and I try another. [g]. They’re no more expensive than a good houseplant at this point.

Vsfl- I am planning to plant in the spring.

Thanks all, for the other suggestions on nurseries. I’m going to spend some time on each of those websites this week too and see if I can find something.

I don't have PS or JC, but I will say that my NDs and Aloha are some of the healthiest in my garden. Perhaps Parade might do well as both it and Aloha are children of New Dawn. In my garden it does well. Munstead Wood does not really BS for me, but its leaves never look good from chlorosis and who know what else. It has improved since applying Miracid. We have extremely alkaline clay here, so YMMV with MW. I got Cl.CGlory OR from ARE. Lowes carried the bush form grafted last year. However, some report that the climbing version is hardier and more vigorous. Pink Don Juan has also been recommended by people living somewhat near you. I don't know if that is available grafted as Chamblee carries it own root.

@ Vesfl - I'm sorry you deleted your post, because now I can't go back and read it again to see how I offended you. Believe me, it was not my intention. Yes, I see that my response to you was the briefest, but if you look at the length of my post, I imagine I was just running out of steam. And since everyone offered names of nurseries, my thanks was to everyone, including you.

And you see my first sentence - "I didn't mean to say....." I was going to 'plant' in the fall? I was correcting myself and revising what I had said earlier. Your experiences planting in the Fall were very much welcome and would encourage me to try it, if I had thought of doing this about a month ago and had a rose on the way to me. And certainly having your comment in this thread would have helped in the future, if next year, I find myself wanting to do it again and tried to refer back to this thread. And would have been helpful for anyone else following the thread. So perhaps you'd like to add your comment back in.

And I plan on spending some time on the ARE website, as I did say. Believe me, anyone who attempts to grow a no spray rose garden, has my respect, and we are few and far between, so I did appreciate your experiences with a no spray source, I just didn't express it.

Everyone's comments were helpful, including yours, and I'd give you a better response to your original post, if you had left it in the thread. Sorry again, and thank you for the time you took to offer help. :-)

Vaporvac - Both the ND and Aloha that I have are not in full sun. They are in about 7hrs of sun only. And they underperform but are perfectly healthy. The Julia Child always pushes out a lot of blooms unlike Aloha whose blooms, especially in the bud stage are very pretty, but few and far between. I imagine if I move it into the full sun bed, it would improve in that regard, but I don't think I'd care for the color combination with JC. I prefer more of a contrast. Prairie Sunrise was a surprise at how healthy it has been. Very clean foliage and it receives very little attention. The flowers are fragrant and larger than JC which I wanted. The only complaint I have, and it is a minor one, is that the flowers fade a little too fast and the color is an apricot, which is not my favorite and harder for me to incorporate into my garden. It's a Buck rose and here's a link to HelpMeFind info on it. Mine is pushing out new buds right now, but I'll have to take a photo when one of them open.

Prairie Sunrise

Disappointing about Munstead Wood. One of the reasons I didn't purchase it, was because it was not in stock both times I tried. I love the color. My pH is about 6, so I might get a different result. If I came across one, I might give it a try.

Thanks, I'll take a look at the other ideas too. It's great that there are some roses out there that actually do well in a no spray garden.

Just spent a couple of hours on the Palatine site and the HelpMeFind site. I had a handful of selections in the cart until I looked them up on HMF. The only one I'm left with is Buxum Beauty, that I'm considering ordering, but wanted to choose one more. I pulled up their list of "Healthy" roses and most of them were listed as 'scented' rather than fragrant. Going to look at some of the other suppliers when I get more time. Thanks again. :-)

Buxom Beauty will need a fungicide. Stay with the Kordes Fairy Tale series, Palatine has a good selection. The 1812 Rose™ comes closest to your description. As mad gallica says, fragrant, red, AND disease resistant isn't out there yet for those of us on the east coast.

Thank you Diane, I will avoid the Buxom Beauty, but the Fairy Tale series I believe has no fragrance? Very popular and lots of bloom but without fragrance, it wouldn't make my list. I was looking at that 1812 Rose - I do like it a lot and I'm happy to get another recommendation. Sounds like a winner. I did put it in my cart at Palatine. Just haven't ordered yet.

Would anyone have a recommendation for a yellow or a white as well? Disease resistant, repeat bloom, fragrant?

Jacques Cartier is very fragrant, and has held up well for me this year without spraying. Julia Child has a light fragrance and does well with disease resistance (not as well as the "Fairy Tale" roses). You may get away with not spraying Pope John Paul II, but it has been hit or miss with resistance in this area.

You're going to be hard pressed to find roses of any color that meets all of the criteria except for R. rugosa.

You should look into Ascot, which is carried by Palatine. It gets lots of good reports, although I'm not sure how much fragrance it has as I don't grow it. Helpmefind says moderate. I wouldn't give up on trying Munstead Wood. I'm not sure where Vaporvac is located, but the East coast soil should be plenty acidic. I have it own-root and it's coming along nicely. It's the only red rose I have since I'm not a big fan of red, but it's a good plant. You'll be taking a chance ordering grafted from David Austin though, since their roses have a high likelyhood of being infected with Rose Mosaic Virus, although some people don't stress about that.

-Chris

Ascot does get BS here.

Thanks Diane - I have Julia Child and it has been pretty disease resistant here for me. Toward the end of the season, some of the lower leaves aren’t great looking but that’s about it. And it does have light fragrance.

I agree, I am not finding what I’m looking for and sometimes I give up looking and grow something else. [g]

Chris - Yes, HelpMeFind - does say moderate fragrance on the Ascot - which seems more fragrant than the 1812 rose.

Where did you get Munstead Wood on it’s own root? I wonder since I am in z6a - if it would be hardy enough here. Is the reason you bought it own root to avoid the RMV?

I am limited for time this fall, since we have house renovations going on, so I’ve decided instead of searching everywhere, to stick with Palatine and order something from them. Ascot will probably be on my list, since I really want to try a red rose. And I'd try MW if I can avoid RMV. Palatine doesn' t offer it.

Shelia I wonder if z8a might be more prone to BS than here in z6a?

I think I am going to order Ascot, Westerland and Pope John Paul from Palatine. I'm not a big fan of orange roses and PJP really balls in the rain, but - there are no perfect roses. I can't see anything else I'd want to try.

I got the own-root Munstead Wood from David Austin. They do offer own-root on a lot of varieties. At the time, I had a Princess Anne from them that was virused (this was a previous order from the one mentioned above - haven't had a great track record) and they offered to replace it. I didn't want another grafted thinking maybe the odds of getting a healthy plant were better with own-root. Not sure if it makes a difference. Anyhow, they didn't have any own-root Princess Annes so I picked MS instead. Next year will be year 3, so hoping for good things. It's done well so far, but can't comment on hardiness for you.

-Chris

Prairie, my z 8a climate is dry in summer in Southern Oregon, and is not a BS prone climate. I still love my Ascot. I don't spray. I think my Tea rose foliage is the healthiest here.

Thanks Chris, I really miss Pickering. They used to test for viruses and they offered David Austin roses, including MW. They also had the ability to leave a comment on the site, so you could see what other gardener's experience with the rose was. I'll keep looking for a MW. Thanks.

Thanks Shelia. I hear you. I may be taking a chance with the Ascot, but I think I'll give it a try and if it doesn't work out, I'll keep looking for a better red rose. I've gone two seasons without ordering roses, I guess because my expectations of what is available are unrealistic. So, I'll see how it works out.

My Julia Child rose is looking great! It's pushed out another flush of bloom for September. And the lower leaves were looking unhappy, but it took me very little trimming to get them off and now the rest of the bush looks healthy. It was more foliage issues than previous years and I figured out that I had grown alyssum that was tall, too close to the rose and I think I was cutting down air circulation around the base. So culture makes a difference too.

I came across this old NYTimes article today, about the non spray rose garden at the NY Botanical Garden. I've not visited it yet, though I'd really love to. The article was written in 2010 right after they revamped the rose garden to a non spray garden. I found it revealing that in the article it reports....

"as the song goes, you can’t always get what you want, even though you get what you need. These new disease-resistant roses can stand up to powdery mildew and black spot without spray, so they are pure enough for a baby to sniff. But very few have a fragrance."

Roses that Lack Bugs, but Also Perfume - The NYTimes

Hortico may offer Munstead Wood. Disease resistant reds that are fragrant here - Soul Sister, Florentina, Dark Desire, MW. A rock star white from Palatine is Summer Memories, although light fragrance. Good luck!