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Am I crazy to have a corner base cab without the susan?

Katie
September 27, 2018

I was planning on having two 33" corner cabs with super susans in my kitchen until I saw that, with KraftMaid, the wood susans have a tall nub in the middle with is almost as bad as the old-fashioned pole. I could upgrade to the chrome susans that don't have the nub, but that would cost an outrageous amount of money for such a small space. And the susan wastes space by not using the corners. I was planning on storing pantry items in one of them and tupperware and small appliances in the other. Would I be nuts to just forgo the susans and have plain shelves?

Comments (82)
  • wilson853

    You didn't like the opening on the 33" Susan, so maybe consider installing the RO under the sink and using corner drawers instead to store your cleaning supplies. You may lose a bit of raw storage space, but this would make the corner so much more accessible. I would much prefer this option rather than having to crouch and go into the storage through a small opening.

    Modern Kitchen · More Info

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  • bpath Oh Sophie

    For the cabinets in the peninsula, my mom's solution was to have:

    the cabinet in the corner is drawers on the dining area side (placemats, napkins, batteries, crossword);

    the cabinet in the middle is drawers on the kitchen side and, for consistency, cabinet doors on the dining area side ( ! Really! Handy for grabbing a towel from the back of the towel drawer for spills, but the doors were more for appearance's sake)

    the cabinet on the end has doors on both sides. This is incredibly convenient and a great use of space: no dark corners.

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  • PRO
    Sophie Wheeler

    Look at doing a 25” sink in a 27” base. Most people do their dishes in the DW and do not need a space wasting double sink.

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  • zmith

    So, I'm really late to join this discussion, and I know the conversation has been mostly about corner cabinets. However, did you consider changing the slider to a swinging door? That would allow you to expand the cabinet run on the sink wall. You'll need to get out of the mindset that the sink must be centered on the window, tho, unless you're willing to move the window as well. Just an idea. :)

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  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    I looked back at the original floor plan you posted and guessed at some of the dimensions... It looks like you can easily fit a 36" lazy susan with a 30" sink base ( it may be about 1/2" off center from the window - then you can fit a large single bowl sink...

    here is the quick layout I threw together ( lazy susan on one side and a blind on the other )



    Take a close look at the sinks again.... that will help!

    Good luck!

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  • lisa_a

    Debbie's elevation plan is pretty much the 2nd 2D drawing I posted above. And yes, I calculated that the 30" sink base would be approximately 1/2" off center, which isn't enough for you or anyone to be able to discern without measuring it.


    You asked "Is there anyone who thinks that the sink blind is a better solution for me than a 33" susan?" My answer is that neither is a good solution.

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  • wilson853

    Typically one would use a 30" sink in a 33" base, but Joe Corlett has posted several times that you can use a 30" sink in a 30" base by rabbeting out the sides and using a sink harness. Many on here have workstation sinks with an internal ledge to expand their workspace. My cutting board is never removed from the ledge. I use It everyday whether I am chopping or mixing.

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  • Katie

    Thank you, thank you, for all the thoughtful ideas and suggestions. This forum is amazing.

    Many people have suggested decreasing the size of the sink base. My dilemma is that I feed eight people in my household three times a day, and my cookware is huge. I own two of each of these pots and pans in this picture (shown in my current sink) because I use them so much. The pan is 25 1/4" inches long, and a single bowl sink that can hold it would make my life a lot easier!


    My window is 50" from the corner. If I go to a 36" susan in that corner (which would be heavenly) and keep the 33" base that holds the sink I want, my sink would be 2 1/2" off-center from the window. I'd appreciate honest opinions if I should do it so off-center, especially considering that the sink has lattices that draw a greater attention to where the center is. I'd also have the dilemma of the 36" susan gobbling up 3" on the other side, where now I'm planning on a 12" 2-drawer base that will hold lots of lids and cutting boards. What should I do there instead? Going down to a 9" base seems to leave only a few options which are not nearly as efficient. I have only 15" on the other side of the range, and people walk by that side a lot, or I'd steal the 3" from there.



  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

    I am late to this topic, and haven't gone through it all (so I don't have design advice) but I have 2 comments:

    1) my Blanco Stellar 441024 sink has a 26" x 16" interior dimension and fits into a 30" base

    2) I am very crunched for space in my kitchen and did choose to have an approx. 33" (actually 33x32) corner cab with the bifold (piano hinge) doors. The legs of the opening are 9" on one side, 8" on the other. The 8" side is next to the stove. I have no problem getting my slow cooker, blender, Foreman Grill, and so forth through the opening. I am able to open the door since it hinges away from the stove (but I cannot just yank it willy-nilly!) I use the upper shelf to store a variety of less used stuff in bottles and jars --I use long narrow baskets that allow me to pull things forward. No, it is not ideal, but it works. Just to reassure anyone who doesn't have much choice.

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  • Katie

    Thank you for the reassuring response, raee_gw. Could you please tell me if you have a susan in that 33X32 corner cab, or just a plain shelf? Pulling long, narrow baskets forward sounds easier without the susan. Maybe using a 33" without the susan is actually better than with the susan, since another concern I have with the 33" susan is that so little of it sticks out of the opening when it is rotated, as Lisa M's image from above shows. Those baskets can probably stick out a lot more than the susan can.

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    Katie - first - your picture is a double bowl sink that is horrible. Second - most of us will talk about undermount sink dimensions in bowl sizes not overall. You can easily find a large single bowl sink ( 28 1/2" wide bowl size ) that will fit in a 30" sink base - that should solve your lazy susan issue...

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  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

    Katie, I have just plain shelves, since the cabinet is uneven (longer on one dimension than on the other) a susan would not have worked well -- and also would waste precious space. The baskets have to be sturdy: since they are not secured also can't pull them out much more than halfway. They are a make-do solution; just the best solution for me, and might be for someone else with limited space.

    Also, after looking at your drawing above, I think I need to clarify that my corner cab is frameless construction, which allows a larger opening than you show in the drawing. (I will never go back to framed construction!) AND only one of my cabinets is a "standard" size-- the 30" sink base, but I could have had that made 33 or 34 inches for a slightly larger sink. Instead I chose larger drawers. The beauty of semi-custom is being able to have odd sizes made to fit the space

    A single bowl sink, even one that fits only a 30" base, is much easier to work in than a double bowl in. IMO of course.

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  • Katie

    raee_gw wrote: my corner cab is frameless construction, which allows a larger opening than you show in the drawing. (I will never go back to framed construction!)

    With such a small cabinet, that frameless construction makes a huge difference! I really wanted frameless, but there doesn't seem to be any mid-price-range frameless cabs.

  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

    Katie, look and ask around -- I had mine made by a cabinetmaker here in central Ohio -- his price was about the same as ordering from Barker Cabinets would have been -- more than Ikea but less than most retail lines. Frameless are becoming more popular so you might find someone in your area who will make them.

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  • kelli w

    I might be alone in this but I think the dreaded "blind corner" cabinets are useful. They have a normal door not a bifold door, and you get two cabinets for the price of one. The visible area functions just like a regular cabinet, and the "blind" in the corner is an extra space for less often used items like a punch bowl or dutch oven. They also usually have a drawer.

    If you don't have enough room for a 36" susan you might want to consider a blind corner cabinet as the blind corner cabinets only use 24" on the back wall ( 27" including a filler strip).

    I agree with others that 33" inch corner susan cabinets are not very useful because the opening is small.

    And it just looks nicer to have sinks centered under a window so you might want to avoid moving the sink.

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  • Katie

    I appreciate your positive comments about blind cabinets, kelly w.

    I just went on a vacation in which my husband forbade me to make any kitchen decisions, as this was stressing me out. Now that I've returned with fresh perspective, I think I'll do one 33" susan for small pantry items that can make it through that narrow door, and a sink blind in the other corner. In my situation, that blind space can be put to good use - perhaps even making it possible for me to fit trash under the sink - and is better than voiding the corner.

  • annied75
    I have both 33" and 36" corner cabinets in my kitchen. The 33" has one susan, while the 36" is a super. Definitely, get a susan if you are doing a corner cabinet. While the corner cabinets hold a lot, the opening to the 33" can be a little problematic. I have items in there that I don't use too much -- mixing bowls, blender, etc. You just learn to turn the items sideways to get them through the opening. It's not ideal, but you adjust.
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  • Katie

    Honest opinions appreciated. The beautiful pics that kazmom and Debbie posted look awesome, but my hesitation is that several people now have told me they think it would be weird and would hurt resale (though I don't plan on moving for a very long time). I think the reason they say this is that I have a very modest tract home, not something in the least unique, upscale, or interesting, like in those pics above. So my question is: does it work in my very humble abode?


  • iamtiramisu

    Who is the "they" telling you that a drawer stack on the seating side would be weird and hurt resale? With a very modest tract home I think that any additional storage and details, especially something that may be considered unique or upscale, would help set yours apart from the others and be a plus, not a minus. If your house was on the market with others in the same area that had the same everything, but your kitchen reno was more thoughtful in design, use of space and functionality, it should be a distinguishing feature for the better. This is not an over-improvement for the house as high end/high cost appliances and other materials may be. It's more storage - which everyone can use. In addition, since you are staying there for a very long time do what YOU like and works for YOU. If you were going with hot pink cabinets and red counters and blue floors, you might want to listen to "they"; in this case, I think you should shut out the noise and put in the storage and enjoy it.

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  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

    ^^ Totally agree.

    Getting a cabinet style and décor that doesn't fit with your house (like a Tuscan style or very ornate, formal style) might hurt resale -- but not what you are planning, and certainly not drawers to access a difficult space!

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  • kelli w

    Omega sells "Full Access", their frameless line. I don't know much about it but Omega is generally considered pretty good. You can look on their website to see if there's a dealer in your area.

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  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    Katie - the kitchen plan I laid was pretty basic - all the cabinets shown are offered by my most basic cabinet companies. The "reverse" cabinet on the peninsula was very common back in the day simply because many cabinet companies did not make any sort of corner cabinet - so the corners were dummied off or those reverse cabinets were put in. The only time that can be trouble is if you are doing a full seating overhang - then the cabinet becomes awkward. Your picture seems to have it pulled forward - so now it has a purpose.

    Please just make sure this is the best plan for you - forget they , them , us , him, her and resale ( I hate that reason for doing anything unless you are actually in the process of selling )... this is your home, your money and your kitchen for a very long time - do what's best for you

    Best of luck!

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  • Katie

    All these comments have been very helpful. I'll go with what I like - not what "they" say I should do. By eliminating both of those 33" corner cabs, I'll have better storage for less money.

    And I've also heard so much here about frameless that I'm going to try to find something in my area. I was deterred by reading that there is no good mid-line for frameless cabs: nothing between Ikea and high-end. But I'll give it a shot.

  • kelli w



    FWIW I think having a cabinet facing outwards in a corner looks fine and a lot of people do it. But if you don't like that, some people put a wine fridge in the 24"x24" space facing outwards. In terms of resale many buyers might consider a wine fridge a plus.

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  • Joanna Cucchi

    I have a 1980's tract home and have the reverse cabinet on the seating side. I wouldn't consider it weird at all. Ours is just a door but it holds all of our less commonly used appliances.

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  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    Frameless is nice... the only spots you gain storage on would be drawers ( or rollouts ) They will be about 1 1/2" wider than a framed cabinet. The interior of the cabinet will be about 1/4" wider side to side.

    Good luck

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  • Katie

    Debbi washburn wrote: Be very careful if you are next to a stove or something that sticks out deeper - the door won't be able to open.

    Thanks for the tip, Debbi. Is a one-inch spacer between the 33" cab and the dishwasher enough?

  • Katie

    Debbi, I'm thinking now that I may have misunderstood your post. At first I was thinking that you were saying that you need a spacer between the pull-side of the corner cab and the stove/dishwasher or the door won't open, but now I'm thinking you're warning about having the stove/dishwasher on the hinge side. Is it okay to have the corner cab right next to a dishwasher (no spacers between them) as long as the hinge is on the non-dishwasher side?

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    It actually is the center hinge of the 2 doors. For example - if the stove is on the right of the lazy susan and you have the doors hinged left, the center hinge will hit the stove and you cant open the lazy susan. If you hinge the door right, then the door of the cabinet will only open to 90 degrees and limits your access to the cabinet. SO you must take care when doing the smaller lazy susan next to a stove.

    The dishwasher should not be an issue since it is even with cabinet doors and doesn't stick out

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  • Katie

    That was very, very helpful. Debbi. The picture illustrates it perfectly. After much help here, I've decided to not have a 33" susan in either corner. They just are not with the money for such limited access! Thank you, everyone for helping me see that, and helping me see the other options.

  • mainenell
    I think the blind sink base is a great option, giving a better sized cabinet next to the range. I also like using the drawer base cabinet facing out into the rest of the room. Excellent use of the space. Have you considered a decorative island end at the end of the peninsula? It would give a decorative look while balancing the drawer base at the other end of the island.
  • mtnmom9

    We have a 33" corner lazy susan base with hinged door and I don't mind it. We store flour and sugar, boxes of cake mix, extra syrup and oils etc. We did the 33 LS instead of 36 to gain larger drawer bases on either side and I'm happy with that decision.

  • Katie

    Mainenell, thank you. It is helpful to hear that I'm not crazy going with the sink blind and base on seating side. And, yes, though I'm not springing for a lot of decoration in my simple kitchen, but the decorative end at the end of the peninsula is worth the money.

    mtnmom9, I was going to put pantry items like you describe in a 33" base, and that would have worked, too, but after seeing issues with these corner cabs being near appliances, I think maximizing my drawer bases will work even better. Thanks for your input, though!

  • Katie

    The question is now how big of a cabinet can I squeeze next to the dishwasher where that 33" cab was going to be. And that is determined by how much wall space should be between the counter and the molding for the sliding glass door.

    Since this is a rather different question than the original question here, I created a new thread for it, but I'd very much appreciate feedback from you all who helped me get to this point: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5536160/where-to-end-counter-should-cabs-and-backsplash-follow-suit#n=0



  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    You don't want to cut into the trim I prefer it not to touch....

    Based on the previous plans we had worked up for you there was not room enough for a cabinet to the left of the dishwasher because you have the cabinet that will be on the opposite side of the peninsula next tot the slider...

    Did something change??

  • Katie

    Yes, Debbi, you are correct that I decided against the 33" corner base to have a cabinet on the seating side, but that left me with 9" between the dishwasher and the peninsula, so I thought I'd put one of these in for trays:

    My KD is recommending a 9" one with a one-inch spacer between it and the corner. I expressed concern over such a narrow spacer, but she double-checked and she is sure it will fit, and says if I am concerned about door swinging and hardware banging, I can have the hinge on the dishwasher side. However, I am leaning toward the 6" one with a more generous spacer between it and the corner, and more wiggle-room between the counter and slider trim.

    Here is the floorplan with the 6" cab (which has framerails under an inch, BTW). If I put in a 3" spacer between it and the corner, the counter can have a 12" overhang and be about 1 1/2" from the slider trim. You say you prefer that they don't touch; do do you think a 1 1/2" gap between is good? Thanks so much - I value your opinion.

  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio

    How about putting a pullout in that narrow space, so you don't have to worry about door swing? I think that, from your drawing, you wouldn't need a spacer at all. I have seen many pullouts for tray storage (or spices, or with pegboards for hanging cooking utensils) in kitchen reveal threads here. You can buy them (Knape and Vogt makes one) but I believe I have seen some made by cabinet makers to fit a non-standard dimension.

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  • mainenell
    You need th
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  • wilson853

    I would consider moving the DW to the end of the peninsula which would give you a 30" drawer base to the left of the sink. With today's DW detergents, it is recommended that dishes only be scraped and not rinsed, so it is not imperative to have a DW next to the sink. Moving it would allow you to load and unload from both sides, and would make it easy to reach the upper cabinets and MW when the DW door is open. I would mock it up with newspaper to see if that could work for you.

    If you decide to leave the DW next to the sink, you could eliminate the door on the small corner cabinet as scrappy did in the photos upthread. Here's another.

    Wildwood Kitchen Renovation · More Info

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  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    I think the 6" cabinet is fine - no divider in it - you can do cutting boards and such inside - or do the 6" pullout rack - even if the cabinet line you are dealing with doesn't offer it, you can purchase it for field install

    Whatever you choose, you must have a filler on the left side. This give clearance to pull past the door and handles of the adjacent cabinet.

    I know you are looking into the blind base for the sink - I would still opt for the 30" sink base and 36" lazy susan - I think that will be a much better storage option. If you are nervous about opening the door, it appears you have room to put a 3/4 - 1" filler on the left of the stove so you won't have to worry about opening the door ever.

    Good luck!

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  • creativedesignsincabinetry

    Great Northern Cabinetry makes a corner base with adjustable staggered shelving. You can see and reach all items at any moment. This is a huge seller for us. Hardly ever sell lazy susans anymore.

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  • Katie

    I very much appreciate these suggestions. You all are really helping me fine-tune this design. Do my responses below seem like good reasons to stick with my plan above?

    I would consider moving the DW to the end of the peninsula

    This would work for an average household, but as a homeschooling mother of six, I make three home-cooked meals a day. The DW is run after every meal, and a lot of it consists of pots and pans that need to be soaked before going in.

    you could eliminate the door on the small corner cabinet

    I did play with this idea, but I am concerned about the trays and cutting boards inside getting splattered from food dribbling down from the prep area above or from loading the dishwasher next to it. It is much easier to wipe down a door than to wash all the contents inside.

    Whatever you choose, you must have a filler on the left side.

    This is why the 6" cab seems better to me. It will ensure that I have standard filler size and that the counter doesn't have to touch the slider trim.

    I know you are looking into the blind base for the sink - I would still opt for the 30" sink base and 36" lazy susan - I think that will be a much better storage option.

    If I want to have my trash in a base, the only place I see room for it is under the sink, and the only way for it to fit there is if I move my large water filtration system into the corner with this blind cabinet. Though blind cabs are typically terrible storage options, used this way, this blind frees up drawer storage elsewhere that might have been eaten up with a trash pull-out. I also get very useful storage with the 18" drawer base to the right of the stove that I wouldn't get if a susan is in the corner.

    a corner base with adjustable staggered shelving

    I'd seriously consider it if a 36" one fit in either corner, but the openings on the 33" corner bases are so narrow that they are difficult to get things out and even see what is in there.

    Thank you!





  • gardengirl68
    I would try to get the 36" corner base. I have no regrets with just my 2 shelves. Lots of room for crock pot, mixer, etc. On the bottom keep flour, potatoes, . Great for large items. My top shelf is a little more recessed that the bottom, makes grabbing items easy.
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  • lindsey_9002

    I just posted on your other thread regarding your microwave placement. I mentioned that my layout is literally identical to your plan - my appliances are in the same spot as yours and so is my sink. I also have a sliding patio door in the same place as you. I have Kraftmaid cabinets and there are two susans in my kitchen. The one in the corner of the peninsula opens from the other side (patio door side). I don't really see a need for two lazy susans, especially in the peninsula corner. That corner is not an ideal spot for food, considering the work triangle. And the shape and shallow sides of the turntables aren't really ideal for Tupperware.


    I'm considering taking the turntable and the shelves out of the lazy susan I have in that spot and putting in a recycling center there. It's made by Knape & Vogt:



    My options are limited since this is the kitchen that came with the house. Since your kitchen isn't started yet, I would do corner drawers in that spot if it were me, especially since you don't really have a lot of drawers in your current layout. If I were redoing a kitchen, I'd opt for all my lowers to be drawers or drawers + deep-sided pull-out drawer cabinets. You can never have too many drawers!

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  • Katie

    I have a question regarding this picture that Debbi Washburn had posted above. Is this a danger only with 33" corner cabs? Not 36" corner cabs? I am actually completely abandoning the layout I posted above, but for the new layout I am considering a 36" corner cab with bifold door next to my range. Would a one-inch spacer between the two be sufficient?


  • townlakecakes

    I have a 36” Susan right next to the range with no filler. The pull is on the opposite side of the cabinet from the range. Notice in the photo that the hinged door has an inch +/- on either side that serves as filler, so if your cabinet isn’t built like that, you may need filler.



  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    Alot of the issue is how far out the stove/handle sticks out and the shape of the handle ( if it curves back then it doesn't stick out as far as a bar pull type of handle ) - the stove in the picture above does not come out as far as some do and that is a plus. Also hinging the door to open against the stove works as long as the stove doesn't stick out too far. If you are lucky enough to be in a cabinet line where you can do an odd overlay door ( as shown in picture above ), that solves your problem. Once my customer decides on their stove - I look up the specs and then go to a display and see how the lazy susan will work out.

    Decide on your stove and then use those dimensions to go look at a display and measure.

    Good luck!

  • Ari Dad

    I asked my kitchen designer for our current project to give me upper corner cabinets with diagonal doors (not cut into the corner, requiring the bi-fold door) with moveable shelves in the interior. Then I will put my own wooden lazy susans on each shelf. I've done this in a previous kitchen and loved it; using it for small appliances and for pantry items. I asked him to do the single-door pull-out interior corner shelves on the bottom.


    The built-in multi-shelf lazy susans (upper or lower) add cost and never seem to do well over time for me. They shift and fall and can be hard to fix, requiring complete replacement.

  • kazmom

    “The built-in multi-shelf lazy susans (upper or lower) add cost and never seem to do well over time for me. They shift and fall and can be hard to fix, requiring complete replacement.”


    i wonder if if this is a function of the type of Lazy Susan? We had the “Super Susan” for 10 years in our old house and never had an issue. i don’t see how it could shift or fall, given it basically sits on a shelf and just rotates?

  • Ari Dad

    @kazmom The problems I've had personally are with the "multi-shelf "lazy susans, as specifically mentioned in my comment. I'm not a professional designer, so perhaps my choice was words was incorrect. I'm talking about the ones that operate around a pole in the center and have multiple rotating "shelves" that are the lazy susans.


    However, my sister-in-law did have what I would guess is the "Super Susan" that you referred to and after a couple of years it started to wobble and jerk. She had it serviced and after a couple of months it started to have the same problem. (Ball bearing issue?? I wouldn't have a clue.) Regardless, it's much cheaper to replace an individual lazy susan even though I've never had to replace any of mine (20+ years use) and have simply moved them with me to the next house where there's always a use for them somewhere if not needed in a corner cabinet.


    I only offered the suggestion as an option that most people haven't ever considered. Not to put down any one else's ideas.

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