If you were a VIP getting a shortcut through the ADA line, I'd be very disappointed in you. But somehow the way you did it doesn't bother me one bit. Nobody was inconvenienced. (And the system of treating people like cattle at concerts and airports almost requires a bit of resistance!)

The other white lie--saying you have plans so as not do something you don't want to do (so that you don't hurt someone's feelings by implying their activity is awful even though it most certainly is awful) is part of living with other humans. It's necessary thing.

Yeah, I'll lie. Mostly to be nice.

I don't think the line thing was ok. I fall into the category of a lie is a lie. That doesn't mean I think you're a bad person. For your friend, her saying she had other plans wasn't lying because she did have other plans. Things can definitely get sticky when it involves others and feelings. The more specific the more challenging it can be at times. I've lied before and probably will again because I'm human and make mistakes but I really make a point and try not to do it. It falls into that moral thing for me.

I don't understand why your friend was upset with you. It would have served no one to have you walk back to a different line to be let in. The whole point of a separate ADA line is to help you avoid walking and waiting in line, right? And you'd be getting in before the majority regardless.

Saying you have other plans if you don't want to attend an event is not a lie. Doing anything at all besides attending the event is something "other" than that. It is much easier than trying to make up an excuse.

I think the line thing was OK. You thought you were in the right line, you weren’t cutting in front of VIP’s (ugh!) waiting in line, and I think it was rude for the staffer to tell a person with a cane to walk back to another location and get in line, especially since no one was in your line.

Saying you have other plans to get out of something.....I think everyone has done this....what’s the alternative?....”sorry Sally, but I don’t want to attend your event.”......who would say that?

In a lot of venues here, the VIP and ADA lines (as well as parking) are in the same location, so, no, that seems rational to me.

Saying I have other plans, is totally fine, too. I am not obligated to take on anything i don't want to do at this point of my life.

I agree with jellytoast, the whole point of the ADA line is to make life easier for the person with a disability. The VIP line gets you into your seats faster and more easily too- same benefit. So long as you did not sneak into the private VIP room and quaff their Champagne, I see no problem. You took nothing away from the VIPs and had you told the truth, I suspect you would have been welcomed to use the VIP line anyway.

As far as needing an excuse to get out of an invitation- it is far kinder to tell a white lie than the truth in this case. It's all about intention.

The TV show The Good Place covers this topic, the need for flexibility in our moral dealings, very well, btw. I highly recommend it. The acting is superb and the writing is awesome. Season 3 just premiered this past Thursday.

As for me, yes, I do tell white lies as needed from time-to-time.

..”sorry Sally, but I don’t want to attend your event.”......who would say that?

My DH! He has gotten out of many things by being honest. Me? I would just say sorry but I can't attend. I don't feel I need to give an explanation especially when I really don't have one.

The line example was an honest mistake. You were entitled to preferential treatment and you got it, just in the wrong line.

It is difficult for me to lie. It one of my pet peeves. Lying is a big deal. There is always a way to say or do something in an honest fashion. When you have a reputation of being truthful, people know what to expect of you.

Example: a friend wanted my opinion of a new cookie recipe. She texted me that she was bringing some over and wanted my opinion. And then said, be honest! Although, she knew I would be.

They were tasty but a bit dry. She needed to know this information for adapting this recipe.

My SIL lies all the time. It works for her in many ways. Her friends seem to accept this trait in her.

Why, I don't know. I don't accept it and it has greatly effected our relationship.

I will tell a white lie to spare someone’s feelings. The “other plans” situation was true, doesn’t matter what the plans actually were, they could have been anything. The VIP line seems a little more gray area for me, but using some common sense, why would they have wanted to send someone with a cane around the long way when there was an entrance right there? So, I might have said that to avoid the extra walking if I had a physical disability. No harm done.

Otherwise, I’m very uncomfortable telling a lie. I also tend to tell the truth when it might have been better to keep my opinion to myself. Or so my DH tells me.

This goes back to Molière's The Misanthrope. Célimène tells little white lies to avoid hurting people's feelings, but Alceste is a proponent of always telling the brutal truth. I am much more like Célimène and always have been.

no, I don't. I'm notoriously bad at it too. It's..somehow physically hard. When I was a kid it was so hard it got me in trouble. With my peers. But they somehow understood it's sort of a mental..disorder. lol. I wouldn't be telling on them. But it'd be hard if faced with a straight question

Say we decided to miss our classes (big city so easy. one always has where to go and what to do. lol.). Two friends and I (or two friends and me?)

Later we're called to a "red carpet"

-Where have you been? Why you weren't present during class such and such?

Friend One:

-my Grandma felt unwell and..blahblah

Friend Two

-I remembered I have to go to pharmacy because..

Me:

-I just went with them..

Then of course one learns..starts with somebody asking you to cover for him..then you try your best. After things are taken care of, they look at you with pity, and ask:

-It was your first time lying, April, right?

I feel bad. I'm fourteen after all. Or something. Should be better in it..

I say:

-no..why first..

was second probably))

so I learned. but it wouldn't be little white lies, it'd be indeed getting out of trouble stuff, or protecting somebody stuff, or keeping silent stuff..smth like that.

As for getting out of an event..I'd say something non offending..like "I can't make it unfortunately"

I dislike most events anyway. Unless it's somebody close. "Have another plans" probably would work. That's not exactly a lie. I do have plans.. to not attend the event, after all. I'd be as nice as possible, and all that. They'd be fine..

At some point nobody not close invites you either..

I still remember my first lie. It was getting out of trouble lie. I still feel incredibly bad about it. More than any other lies I told much later in my life.

I was real little. Four, five?

and I pushed that little girl..younger than me. she was a bit annoying..and there was a small devil inside me ..you know the one that whispers to you:

-will she really fall? how it'd look like?

well she fell. and cried

so it wasn't anything remotely satisfying

and she told her parents and her parents were angry-of course-and told my Mom

and my Mom got very upset

she said

-it's not like April at all. She would never push somebody. And she never lies. Right?

what could I say. she was right, in a sense..I never pushed somebody before..but this time, I did. And I never lied before, but this time..

I didn't want to dissappoint her. I didn't say anything. Just made some indescriptive movement..

I have a family member that lies. A lot. I hadn't spent time with her for years. So when we reconnected the "white lies" were jarring. Nothing terrible on their own. But so many!

I am sad to say her children have taken the "white lies" to the next level. And beyond. It is depressing and sad. Coincidence?

That said...no one is 100% truthful. Not at all times. I told a small lie (yes we ate the cake it was delicious). I felt like I needed to tell my spouse so, if asked, he could corroborate my lie. Bad move. I immediately felt oily. But really there was no time to eat the cake, and it was getting old. Do I tell the person who had given it to us? (I rushed home and ate the whole cake.)

So I think sometimes we end up doing it, for whatever reason, and if that happens, just keep it to yourself.

A former boss-pastors wife once told me she says “I’m sorry, I have another commitment. maybe another time?” I use that all the time. I DO have another commitment, perhaps it’s pizza with my kids or laundry, it doesn’t matter. I have other plans. It doesn’t bother me one bit to say it.

I don't put things that are said to spare somebody's feelings, under a lie description probably. It doesn't even count.

it counts where my opinion truly matters in the eyes of them who ask.. and when I'm asked for it. Something serious. Can be a dilemma. I'll decide. I might decide to lie. But the again it won't fall under description of "little". I guess.

Whether a cake was good-come on. Of course it was good. And many other things. Gifts fit, drawings look pretty, you name it. Intention, is what counts.

I have several friends/relatives who like to tell the "brutal truth"

Their "brutal truth" is usually their own, far from being universal, and most likely not needed at the moment.

Yes, I will lie. In fact I was recently ruminating over a lie I told my children when they were small, they are now 17 and 19 and I think I have to confess.

We live on a rural road 5 miles from our village. To bike into town you have three choices: a road with a very steep hill with a blind curve over a narrow bridge where people have had fatal accidents, what we call “rollercoaster hill” which is less steep but equally blind and the speed limit for cars is 45mph, or a trail in a park that connects the end of our road to where the bike path into town begins. The trail says no bikes.

I called the town and asked why no bikes, they said they don’t allow biking in the park, mountain bikes ruin the trails. I told my kids the sign meant you cannot ride around in the park but if you are less than 16 you may ride directly through the park as it is safest way to town. I attended many town meetings to have it changed to no avail, I stand behind my lie. But I will confess to my sons.

I see nothing wrong with what you did. The entrances were not clearly marked. You did not inconvenience anyone. And you had a cane, for gosh sake...

I’d rather tell a white lie to a friend to avoid hurt feelings then be brutally honest.

White lies, of course.

Other than that, I can't remember the last time I lied to anyone. I won't go so far as to say I never have. But I try not to do anything I might regret, including lying. Don't forget handy lies-of-omission.

In re the line issue, I would have simply asserted that I was sorry, but given the distance I would appreciate being allowed to enter. If they said no I'd have insisted and walked through.

As far as real lies go, I am pretty good about abstaining from them. I told a few real lies when I was a teen and I felt awful about it back then. Not an experience I would want to repeat as a grown up.

After reading all the responses, but especially Mtn's "Don't forget lies if commission." I might have to rethink my answer.

I'm glad I'm in good company! That VIP line was empty when I approached-and it was a line where they were giving people their goodie bags, so that was the only difference between that and the non-VIP line.

I won't tell an overt lie when I do something wrong. If I was wrong, I will admit it and I will offer to make up whatever it was that I did wrong. I've lived by that motto for a long time, and taught that to my children-and my son paid a terrible price for his honesty-but that is, unfortunately, the consequences one takes.

My ex-husband lied constantly, about simple things. It came so naturally to him that I doubt he knew how to tell the truth. Things like asking if he took the trash out when it was clear later when I checked that he hadn't. Why lie about that? But he did-constantly.

I too use the lie of omission when it's prudent. I once saw a very unfortunate looking baby and I commented to the mother that she had a very sturdy looking boy. She beamed and I didn't tell her her son looked like an 80 year old man.

OMG dealing with people who lie all the time is impossible. My in-laws tell huge lies- lies made up out of whole cloth- not so much as a kernel of truth to their lies, and they in turn think everybody else lies all the time- which is odd since that should mean they know they are lying.

I had to google "lie of omission" and am still not sure I got the meaning right

I weigh potential damage..sometimes the damage is such it'd destroy another person, either for a time being, or forever

if that person is not me, and especially when it's somebody I feel responsible for-I might not tell them something. at all. never.

if I look bad-I'd rather look bad to the rest of the world

but I see sometimes me not sharing something as my duty

other people..sometimes they have the right not to know. they have the right not to know what we went through

true all secrets keeping drains unbelievable amount of energy

it eats one..gnaws at one and all

yet sometimes the alternative would be worse

I strive to balance kindness and truthfulness because honesty without compassion is brutality.

Rita, I'm curious about your in-laws huge lies.

My SIL lies to get what she wants. When my DD's were small and she came to visit, (only a 45 minute ride) she would automatically bring an overnight bag. She claimed that she couldn't drive at night. A few years into it, I caught her in this lie. Why not just ask to sleep over?

The sad part is, is that I y think that she believes her own lies because she has been doing it for so long.

My kids believed in Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny. So yes, I lied.

Still will tell a lie if it will help someone else and not hurt anyone.

(I won't lie by omission, I opened this thread thinking it was about Kavenaugh.)

Here’s a wierd story. When I was in college, I flew to the east coast and met up with my boyfriend. I spent the night at his family’s house before going on a trip with a bunch of college friends around New England. That night, his whole family played a board game, me included. His mother blatantly cheated! It was so obvious that everyone knew and no one in the family seemed to care! Of course she won. I was in utter shock. It was clear this happened often. His mother didnt like me and we broke up. I was heartbroken. I heard later that he went bald so that eased the pain.

Eld, Here is the original lie from dealing with my in-laws.

When my husband and I were getting married there was a division of expenses in place. My future in-laws had offered to pay for the centerpieces and wine for our wedding reception- that was to be their gift to us. My DH-to-be was to pay for the bouquets and boutonnieres for the wedding party.

My husband-to-be and I lived in DC at the time. My mother lived in Montreal and my future in-laws lived in NY on LI, so logistics were an issue in those dark days before a robust WWW.

On the Thursday before the Saturday wedding my husband-to-be and I went to the airport to pick up a bride's maid. We stopped at the florist shop on our way to check on the bouquets and make sure everything was alright. When we looked over the bill, we double checked the amount of boutonnieres ordered and noticed we were one short- for my father-in-law to be (DH's parents were divorced, so my in-laws refers to DH-to-be's mother/grandmother/sisters.) We asked the florist to please add a boutonniere and we paid the additional charge.

Upon returning to my DH-to-be's grandmother's house with my college friend whom we had picked up from the airport, I was greeted with a screaming banshee (his grandmother, the matriarch of the family) calling me a b*tch for having gone behind her back and changing all the flowers.

Not only was I mortified that I was being screamed at and insulted by this woman in front of my friend, but it was not true at all. She used this lie to create such a huge amount of chaos- she went so far as to call the priest and tell him the wedding was cancelled- it was a sheer miracle the wedding went off, without a hitch, 48hrs. later.

So while the lie seemed inexplicable, it was a tool for venting her frustration with me and the wedding, neither of which was going exactly as she had hoped (and I promise, I was no bridezilla.)

I can certainly understand why you did what you did and I don’t begrudge it at all. As for myself, I’m in the “a lie is still a lie” club and I’m am not comfortable doing that myself; I’d much rather just be honest about it. As t’s noted in some of the responses above, there’s nothing wrong with saying something like I’ll know that for next time, but I’m here now and would like to pass through. It’s not going to hurt anyone so why wouldn’t they say sure?

As for your friend, yes, watching a show can be considered as having other plans but I respect that your friend’s conscience felt going was the better option.

Neetsie, you did the right thing, especially having to use a cane. Don't feel guilty!

I do the occasional white lie, and IMO, a lie of omission is simply keeping something to yourself.

The last whopper of a lie I told was so embarrassing once I realized what I did. I was only 20 and working at OU. I played hooky from work one day & called in to say my grandmother had a stroke.

First of all, I never had a grandmother but I did have a step grandmother. Secondly, I had no idea what a stroke could do to someone.

The next day my boss, whom I already loathed, came up to me to ask how my grandmother was, and I said all chirpy, she's fine! He asked if she was paralyzed and I said no. He looked at me funny and dropped the subject, and it was only years later I figured out why. :)

Rita you posted before I finished writing my response above, but I have to say, I have no words except I’m sure you were horrified. My Gosh! What a way to say, “welcome to the family”. I’m glad the wedding still when through with out a hitch, which no doubt was to your credit.

My father, who’s mother had passed when he was 10, was very close to my maternal grandmother and the same held true for my mother with my husband and all 4 brother in laws. I’m close with my son in law as well and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

No I don't lie but to say you can't go to a party or something by saying that you are busy just because you don't want to go doesn't really qualify as lying if you ask me. What else would you say "OH nah, I don't want to go because I don't really like being around old so and so, so I'm just going to stay home and do nothing or watch tv or anything be go to your stupid party"...HAHAHA! I don't think I'd have been quick enough to come up with your reply about getting into the VIP line "brilliant"! :)

I lied on my weight on my drivers license and have done so for over 30 years. It hasn’t benefited me so far.

My good friends know if I don’t want to do something I’ll just say so It works both ways for them If it wasn’t a person I knew well then I might say a white lie to make it easier for us both

I try not to. Of course I can't say I never have! A little white lie to spare someone's feelings is one thing, but a lie to make myself look better, etc. IMHO is not right. So no, I don't think what you did is right. You made an honest mistake in the lines. I would have just explained that and most likely they would have let you on in. On the other hand, I don't think it's the end of the world and cannot really see why your friend was so upset.

I will white lie, if the truth would be quite hurtful and the white lie would cause no harm, nor affect anyone other than the person I'm white lying to, IYKWIM. I was once asked by a friend, whose husband had recently left her for another woman, if I thought the other woman was prettier than her. I said "No." That was a white lie, because the other woman was very striking. But saying 'Yes' would have been hurtful to my friend, and the white lie caused no harm, nor affected anyone else.

If she had used the word 'attractive' I would have still said 'no,' but it would have been the truth. I would consider my friend as being more 'attractive' because besides being pleasant looking, she is kind, sweet, intelligent, funny, loving and she has never been unfaithful to her husband. The woman who her husband left her for, was cheating on her spouse as well, so having the character trait of being a cheater, is far less 'attractive' to me.

Of course I would never lie regarding anything criminal, even if it the truth would be devastating to learn.

To be clear, I was pointing out that I also try to not to lie by omission.

I too use the lie of omission when it's prudent. I once saw a very unfortunate looking baby and I commented to the mother that she had a very sturdy looking boy.

That is a white lie. I suppose you could call it a... white lie of omission if you wanted, but it is first and foremost and white lie and not what I was referring to.

I've used white lies, and I can tolerate others using white lies--when the purpose of the lie is to spare someone's feelings. I have no tolerance--as Mtn mentions--for lies of omission. My definition of those are when someone purposely withholds information either to protect themselves or create harm/havoc/problems for others. This is not the same as keeping private information private. It's a passive-aggressive technique that I have unfortunately experienced many times in the workplace and in certain family dynamics. I would much rather have someone lie straight to my face than use this manipulative technique.

I was born into a certain society. Saying truth might have grave implications, saying lies also might have grave implications. we were brought up on all sorts of stories describing kids young or a bit older than us that were tortured by some enemies-yet still didn't tell "the secret" the enemies were trying to learn, and were put to death.

It seems funny now, but in primary school I was greatly preoccupied with this issue-what if enemies(little did I know they could be friends either..) will come, and start torturing me, and I wouldn't be able to withstand the torture and will become a traitor and tell them "the secret"?

Of course I didn't know then any secret "enemies" might want to know, lol, but I lived under the inner threat that I'd become weaker than other heroic kids, and it's better to die.

When I was ten my Mom sat me down and brought me a book of stories by Mérimée..she underlined the stories she though I should read and the first one was "Mateo Falcone". Remember "Mateo Falcone"?

In short. It was always a big balancing act. Between me being born with this very honest nature. A physical instinct to tell the truth when asked. Never lying. Punishment or not. And me calculating all the possible scenarios of my very honest nature ruling me, as affecting other people. Which included, in my mind, imprisonment, death,and all sort of gloomy stuff like that.

Now I can see how confusing it could be for a child I was then.

Then I learned something else. Something devastating happens to you. You try to keep the secret. Then you break down. You tell the truth. And nothing happens. Nobody knows how to handle your truth. You don't know either.

This might be useful:

https://www.scienceofpeople.com/different-types-lies/

BTW I had never heard of a lie of influence. But now that it was pointed out, I can recognize it in recent events. I used to think of it as simply "misdirection". Anyway, an interesting taxonomy of lying!

According to Miss Manners, one never has to give an excuse or reason for turning down an invitation. A simple "I'm sorry, I can't attend" is all that needs to be said.

So the line thing, as it wasn’t clear which line was what I have no issue. If you had seen a sign for VIP and just decided to charge through then that’s one thing, but you tried to find the correct entrance and it wasn’t immediately obvious. I recently injured my hip and walking long distances is very laborious. I would have been really hard pressed to walk an additional distance on hard concrete for no reason if I wasn’t inconveniencing anyone else. My hip will heal itself soon so I am lucky, if you have a cane for an extended time I feel your pain(literally) that you should not feel bad, you weren’t trying to one up anyone else.

As to the second deal, plans are plans. If my plans are with me, then what’s the issue?

No, I don't lie. I would have looked at that VIP ticket taker and asked him if I really had to walk all the way back and around to the ADA entrance. It just doesn't seem necessary to lie. I doubt she/he would have insisted you go back, especially if you weren't taking a goody bag or anything. i don't think it would occur to me to lie about it. We have friends who tell little lies all the time. Once they had friends visiting from CA and at dinner the husband said that we were the smartest people they ever met (so not true) and went on to tell how I do the Sunday crossword puzzle in ink and in some ridiculously short amount of time I do use a pen, but it is a sensory thing-cannot stand writing with pencils. I tried to correct him, but he kept insisting his story was true. It seems silly and I don't know why they do it because now I never trust a thing they say.

When it comes to the baby incident, that is easy. There are all kinds of sweet wonderful things one can say to a new parent that will fill up her heart and be true.

As to the party thing, I would do as others suggested and either say I have another commitment (watching my favorite show or whatever) or do as Ms. Manners says.

I tell little white lies to avoid hurting someone but I abhor liars and I don't lie. I don't know why I have such a bad reaction to people who lie, but I do.

Regarding the white lie to be able to go through the VIP line, I would have asked them if I could go through under your circumstances. I just don't understand the point of not telling the truth. But it's not the kind of lie that I would have a bad reaction to.

I think lying by omission is just as bad as an outright lie...in fact in some circumstances, even more devious. I "had" a friend who said she never lied. Well that was a lie. She lied all of the time by omission.

Rita, so sorry you had to go through that. I didn't want to push the like button, but wanted to know that I saw your response.

I agree with Cyn. I would not have lied to the VIP line monitor but instead would have asked if I could be admitted thru that line for the reasons you mentioned.

Telling someone you can’t attend their event because you have other plans is not a lie at all, so there’s no problem there. Even if your plans were to go home and wash your hair, watch a Hallmark movie, and pig out on pizza.

Other plans: you might just be tired and want to veg in bed watching You Tube videos -- and those ARE plans, which may be hard to explain to friends. Especially if the occasion you are passing up is something just not up your alley to do. Just say, you have other plans!

The VIP line thing is more grey, but not worrisome, with your cane that you were actually using, it would be painful for you to start again in some other line.

My oldest stepson was 15 when I met him. He was already an accomplished and chronic liar, although I did not know it right away. Some examples: 1/ He said he left the keys in our car and it was stolen. The "thieves" left it in a sand pit with a blown engine. Turns out he was one of the thieves. 2/ He took a motorcycle for a ride, said he did not, but was seen by a neighbor. 3/ He kept 2 licenses ... one with our address, one with his mother's address, so he could manage "points" for traffic violations. Anyway, once he told me he was going to a friend's house. I needed to call him and he was not there, nor was expected. When I asked why he didn't just tell me the truth, he said it was easier to lie than answer extra questions.

He is 55 now. Still lies and steals from others, but he is a charmer and has always gotten by on his looks and personality. His mother has never believed he has ever done anything wrong. His younger brother and sister were and are normal people when it comes to telling the truth.

I'm not sure we're all on the same page about lies of omission. Sometimes it may simply be keeping mum on how you feel about someone's horrendous new haircut. Saying what you think is not always doing the right thing. Withholding important information--your civic or friendship duty--is another thing.

I want to thank Neetsie for starting this thread. Yesterday I had a situation where my first impulse was to be untruthful to spare someone's feelings. Someone asked me out via email and I am just not interested in him. It's someone at my church so I needed to be kind, yet not equivocate. I was considering using the old "I'm seeing someone else" because it's unprovable. I mean, I could be dating my cat. It wasn't that I felt compelled to be truthful to this guy, but it messed with my value of being an honest, open person. So I told him that I appreciated his invitation, but I just wasn't interested in dating anyone right now. Hey, it's not like there's a line at my door. He sent a nice reply and I know I was right to be truthful.

A lie of omission would be not mentioning that you broke something, and just throwing it away and hoping it wouldn’t be noticed. Sort of like the scene in “Rebecca” where she hides the broken statuette in the desk.