Well...you are not getting off on a good foot.

The contract for construction should be based on and include everything for which there is mutual agreement at the outset and before construction begins on a project.

If you and/or the builder are making changes, then those should be clearly documented and the amended construction documents should be the basis for the construction contract and construction cost.

Stop the process and get this completely defined and worked out before signing anything. The construction cost in the contract should reflect the scope of work for which both parties are in agreement, and for which both parties sign the construction contract.

There cannot be a change order until the construction contract has been signed.

Change orders must be agreed to and signed by both parties before work may commence on the the change.

Good luck. I hope you get off on the right foot.

Thank you for your response. Perhaps I should clarify and please forgive me as I've never done a remodel before so I'm still new to all of the terminology. I'm concerned that we are going to be charged for a change order later when we have already told them in the beginning. The reason we're not going back & changing the drawings to reflect these changes is because we've paid the architect SOOO much money & the plans are STILL not what we told her to do. In addition to that, we live in a place where the city takes an extremely long amount of time to stamp approval on changes to the drawings. If it means we have to pay the contractor for the change order vs paying the architect & the city to redo the plans, we'd rather the money go to the contractor. I'm just wondering if we give him the modifications to the plans in writing if we will get charged for the change order. The modifications are things like: standard sliding door being replaced with bi-folding doors, add a prep faucet on the island & therefore have to get plumbing from perimeter to island, move coat closet access from east wall to west wall, and things of the like. I appreciate your time & your advice!

Get the contractors estimates for each separate change. Then decide if you want to make the change, seek another bid for the change or do something else. You need to know before work is begun how much something will cost you. Before you sign is when your negotiating position is strongest.

The issue from my perspective will differ from an architect's.

Depending on the size of your remodel, the builder sent out your set of plans to all suppliers & trade contractors as it was drawn & specified. Changes & wish list items can flow constantly, but still those original plans & specs remain unchanged, most often with "no changes without approval of architect" stamps or the changes involve permits. In competitive bid situations, it gets very complex and guaranteed multiple parties get different messages, so pricing the only set produced by the architect is reasonable.

Long wait times for permitting, for architecture, for materials or trusses are guaranteed to generate changes... clients second guess all sorts of sound previous decisions, especially if the committee of family & friends (& Houzz) get involved.

I really prefer direct communication between the client and myself regarding changes.

Bifold vs sliding exterior doors - can be $500-1500 additional per lineal foot of door. Have you selected a brand? That will impact the price too.

Moving closet, adding prep sink - ?

My suggestion: Redline the plans by hand, ask for a revised total.

If it is complex, you need to get the architect involved. I will recommend consulting the architect if I think the change is not optimal, so I won't say "that's stupid"

My change order process... I use allowances where decisions are directly under control of the client to avoid selection based changes (fixtures, etc). To move a closet prior to construction, likely no cost. After framed? labor+ materials + my time, none of which is as cheap as people would like. I do not charge a change order fee as long as I am not just going through "what if" exercises.

In our office we have a saying: "a change is an opportunity for a mistake." There are many individuals and trades which need to understand various aspects of your project. A well detailed set of plans is the most efficient way to communicate the scope of work. Redlined plans or a written addendum to the plans will require careful coordination to ensure that everyone who needs to gets the right information. It's inviting a mistake.

As unattractive as the option might be, my advice is to get the architect to revise the plans so they document the true contract scope of work.

Thanks everyone. It's an extensive remodel, practically going down to the studs. We initially got a "conceptual bid" from the contractor based on what they expect each line item to total, based on their numerous years of experience. That way, we could get that number to the bank to get the construction loan into motion.

In the meantime, they have sent the plans out to their subs & they are awaiting responses from each of them so that we can have a more accurate number. I'm hoping it's reasonable for me to put together a list of "changes/discrepancies" about the plans so that we can get an updated bid from the subs for those items that may be affected by the changes. We did go through and red-line each item at last week's meeting at their design center but it's not included in the contract so I want to protect myself & try not to have many change orders that will affect the budget & timeline. Do you all think that is reasonable of me, as the client, to request these changes from the contractor in respects to changes in design & cost, before we sign a contract?

And Virgil Carter Fine Art, if you can believe it, we've paid our architect hundreds of thousands of dollars over the past 10 years to continue to modify our plans in order to accommodate our city's ever-changing laws, as well as our own design changes. We're done paying for those changes & would much rather pass it on to someone who isn't siphoning money from us!

And Jeffrey, we plan on using Western Windows for the bifolding or stacking sliding doors.

Thanks everyone!

Before your last post, I thought, this is not a normal contract, after your last post, you have a time and materials contract. I would not bid on your contract, I would offer to work for you on a time and materials basis.

Good god.

Agree with Jeffrey and make sure the designer has "construction" experience so s/he knows the details needed to get you where you want to go. But do stop and think this through. These projects never get "better" only worse. You will never regret getting the right stuff on paper, or in writing. Believe me! So many people get excited, want to move forward and go ahead even though they kind of know it is a mistake and then, call me! Haha! So, get this right now. It will still be difficult. But not as bad.

I am not sure I can reconcile the architect cost and the words "design center". Documentation is your friend. It's hard enough to get folks to actually USE and EXECUTE the plan that is well documented - but not having clear instruction, agreement and contractual language is a recipe for disaster. (and possibly even more so based on the word "design center".)

" ... would much rather pass it on to someone who isn't siphoning money from us!"

Just wait 'til construction starts.

"...if you can believe it, we've paid our architect hundreds of thousands of dollars over the past 10 years to continue to modify our plans in order to accommodate our city's ever-changing laws, as well as our own design changes. We're done paying for those changes & would much rather pass it on to someone who isn't siphoning money from us!..."

Well...this is simply extraordinary. I can't imagine how you would have spent 10 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars with a single architect on a residential remodel project...unless there were numberous changes of scope and changes of mind...over time, again and again. It's simply extraordinary and defies logic.

And I fully understand that many jurisdictions have very detailed requirements for design and construction approvals.

And I understand your frustration at where you currently find yourself in your project.

But...the archive of this forum is full of threads from many consumers complaining, after the fact, that construction costs and quality have become huge problems once construction started because of inadequate and/or confusing construction docments. Virtually every time a consumer thinks to save money on the front end by using minimal or improperly coordinated documents, they wind up being disappointed at how the construction took place, and how change orders escalated the construction costs unexpectedly.

There's posting after posting about this. For example, look at the currrent thread on stairs.

There's an old saying, "you can pay me now or you can pay me later!". It's exactly what you are facing. In the computer business it's, "Garbage in, garbage out!".

Dispite your frustration, you need to stop and seriously reconsider how best to protect your investment and ensure that you project will proceed in a proper and satisfactory manner. Listen to the other experienced folks in this thread who have design and construction experience. They are all telling you the same thing.

I sincerely wish you good luck in your project.

Is the city going to pass the sink in the island if it never appeared in the plans? I'd assume not and thats not really something you can hide. (Not that you should regardless....)

I met with my builders yesterday to talk about a deck I want them to hang off the main floor (walkout basement) and their immediate thought was that it needed to be drawn up and submitted to the city to ensure it complied. I wouldn't be happy if it was build and during the final inspection the guy came back saying everything was fine but before they'd issue the CO the deck had to be pulled because it was too close to X or whatever. It might cost me a little more on the front end but I don't want a delay or wasted money because it wasn't up to the citys liking.

In the municipalities we work in, adding a sink on the fly wouldn't be an issue that would require resubmission of plans, provided it was reflected on the plumber's permit and the necessary tap fees had been paid.

Start with the sink add. Have you determined where you want it exactly? Have you picked the sink and faucet. Is anything else going to be included like a disposal? Have you got one lined up? How about task lighting like cans for this work zone? Complete the info for this change and ask your contractor for pricing on his parts.

Thanks everyone for your comments. We've got it all squared away with the contractor and all of our changes are going to be reflected into the contract & they will not be considered change orders as all of the subs are going to reflect the changes in their bids. And yes, dan1888, we know exactly where we want the sink & we have everything already picked out from both sinks, both faucets, disposals & all lighting throughout the house. And I don't understand why the "design center" is creating confusion. They are contractors that have been in business for more than 25 years and inside their office & warehouse is a design center with everything you would find in places such as Ferguson: they have countertops, cabinetry, cabinetry hardware, flooring, bathroom plumbing fixtures, lighting, kitchen plumbing fixtures, tile, and they have 2 designers on staff.