I have seen both condensers....you did not specify whether straight AC or HPs....both models are basically identical with exception of efficiency and size. Both are top of line and use inverter type technology. Good humidity removal. Requires Trane proprietary thermostat for best operation. There is a review on You Tube from a dealer so you might take a look. Take a read from the comments of the video, about 5 minutes. same models available from Trane's sister company, American Standard.

Good Luck

Dehumidification isn't done from osmosis with an air conditioner. (ANY air conditioner...) The system has to run to deliver dehumidification.

All brands make inverter systems so Trane in that regard is nothing special and repair costs for Trane are much higher than *some* other brands mainly due to costly part prices, unless you find a contractor that uses unskilled labor to do the work... less labor costs lead to lower prices at the cost of them not knowing what they are doing.

An inverter AC system has a better chance at dehumidification nirvana because it will run for longer periods of time and match the load of the home, what throw's loops into this is the control. There has been control problems with Trane (IE thermostat issues.) Most Inverter systems 99.9% of them require OEM specific controls, they won't work well and maybe not at all without the OEM specific thermostat. Yep put your nest on your desk as a fancy paper weight.

If it's 70 degrees and humid, the AC (inverter or otherwise) will attempt to hit your dehumidification setting within a 3 degree band. There can be situations (depending greatly on your settings and your local climate) in which you will trade chilliness for that additional dehumidification. They use a 3 degree band so there aren't calls made from home owners that it's freezing in the home they can't get the AC to shut off. (You know forgot they inadvertently set the dehumidification setting to 30% and they are in a high humid climate.)

Dehumidification control without these problems listed above are separate systems attached to your HVAC system. They warm the air that is dehumidified. They add to what your utility costs are depending greatly on settings and how much they actually run. These are separate systems that have to be maintained and replaced. So there is no 'free' lunch here.

If you are located in a market without the need for dehumidification, like California as an example, inverters are often used to cut operational costs due to California's high electric utility rates.

With that said, inverter systems are a step above with really great control and great dehumidification with really good efficiency that turns into savings on your monthly AC bill, but with a product like Trane you must bank those savings because it will be costly to fix it when it breaks. If you can live with the small possibility of 70% humidity in your home with 70 degree indoor temps then it might be for you.

Additionally Trane is more partial to larger HVAC companies that 'sell'. Meaning their biggest interest is your money. The company is a well oiled machine in that regard. Trane isn't the same company since American Standard sold it to Ingersoll Rand.

American Standard brand is owned by Ingersoll Rand as well. So there's very little difference in that regard.

The so called climatuff compressor is actually made now by Copeland as far as I can tell. The sell game continues. Good Luck with whatever you decide.

"Trane is more partial to larger HVAC companies that 'sell'. Meaning their biggest interest is your money. "

Companies and businesses that don't successfully sell their products and services to make money from customers go out of existence and the people that own and work for them lose their livelihoods. That's true for all businesses, your own included.

Manufacturers always spend more time with larger customers - there's more payoff in doing so - and leave smaller customers to distributors or other channels. It's the same in the HVAC business as in most others.

If you don't want to deal with a larger HVAC company selling Trane, then look for a small business who sells American Standard. It is the same equipment.

Elmer J Fudd

"Trane is more partial to larger HVAC companies that 'sell'. Meaning their biggest interest is your money. "

The above statement is factually incorrect. In my Southern location, there are several small authorized Trane dealers where the owner is actively involved in the daily operation of the business. So a choice between large and small Trane dealers is readily available.

i am not certain where this bias against Trane comes from. They make good equipment as do Carrier/Bryant. For the OP, keep in mind this bias is just one person's opinion.

IMO

How many of you actually run a HVAC service company?

A mile in someone else's shoes......

Very easy to say what ever you want without a shred backing anything you just said.

But hold me to the fire for every word I say.

Fact: Trane charges 4 to 5 times more for a variable speed blower motor than a brand I sell of comparable equipment.

Trane is better equipment: The blower motor that failed in the above equipment was less than 5 years old.

Fact: The Trane thermostat problems I brought to light are very easily verified. Do your own research. For equipment that is so good, you would think they could make a controller to run it. Right?

It's a free world, and as I said before Trane is a well oiled machine. Look at how many people stand up to defend them.

Successful: I've run my own company for 11 years. (still in business -- Katy, Tx area) 24 years total HVAC experience, fully licensed and insured HVAC contractor.

I stand behind every comment I've made to this thread. Choose who ever you want to believe and good luck.

Austin, from my reading, it seems there are two schools of thought:

First school of thought is that you should stick with the tried and true single-stage systems. They are cheaper, more reliable, and easier to fix if they break.

Second school of thought is that the higher end modulating equipment provides so much improvement to comfort and humidity control that it is worth the extra cost. People in this school of thought often say that the technology is now maturing and nearly as reliable as single, double stage equipment. They usually admit that replacement parts if you need to fix something are more expensive, but they point out that the parts warranty is 10 years so the homeowner is only paying for labor for the first 10 years anyways, and that the labor (i.e., time) of replacing an inverter board is less than the time it would take to fix the less computerized systems.

What's your view?

Seems to me that if you add something like an Ultra Aire whole house dehumidifier to a single stage system, you've got a setup that will be even better for dehumidifying that a modulating inverter system. However, you've also now got a setup that is basically just as expensive as the inverter system (say, $6500 for a 1-stage Trane + $3000 for an Ultraire 98H = $9500 total, versus $10,000 for a Trane XV18). You've also now got twice as much equipment to maintain, and twice as much equipment that may fail and need to be replaced.

So I've got to say, I'm very much on the fence. My house was getting up to ~60% relative humidity in October on the days that were 65 degrees outside and rainy (99% humidity). I doubt a Trane XV18 would have helped much in that scenario, but an Ultra Aire probably would.

That said, that scenario happens probably about 20 days per year. So I'm not sure I should let the occasional day of higher indoor humidity than I prefer have a significant influence on my HVAC selection.

As you say, there is no free lunch.

BTW, in your experience, have these Trane controller issues been resolved?

Do you have any experience with the York LX series YHM 5-stage model? Apparently it is a non-communicating 5-stage modulating outdoor unit typically paired with an indoor unit that has a single speed ECM blower. It has good specs (for the two ton, it claims to have 10k BTU sensible capacity and 12k BTU total capacity in its lowest stage, which would appear to leave 2k BTU latent for dehumidifcation, which is decent). But despite what the spec sheet says, I question how it can dehumidify well at low stages when it is non-communicating and can't slow the indoor blower down?

Decisions decisions...

tigerdunes

The words in quote marks concerning Trane and it preferring larger HVAC companies are what Austin Air said, not me. I was quoting him.

2 schools of
thought: (to be complete I provide 3 schools)

Stick with tried and
true single stage systems OR

Middle of road 2
stage systems OR Modulating equipment 5
stages or more.

--------

Comfort is more or
less a feeling. A good feeling when everything comes together to provide you
that nirvana of temperature and dehumidification bliss that you deem your zone
of comfort. No two people are alike in this regard.

Some say 80, some
say 75, some say 70. Throw in humidity statistics and probably close to 90% of
the time people do not fully understand the dilemma or the mentality of trying
to 'control' humidity. (realize this 'feature' is more problematic in high
humidity locations.)

Every location can
have bouts with humidity related problems... but because these issues are often
so rare for so many areas no one truly understands this issue until they live
in a high humid climate, and even then I still often times get blank stares. (I
live in one: Katy Texas area)

A single stage air
conditioner will have less of an impact on humidity in the home, because it's
main design is to drop temperature. While it's running it can dehumidify but
because of the over cooling effect 90% of the time the unit will cycle off long
before any real dehumidification is performed. (note: in high humid climate)

2 stage AC systems:
They increase your chances of getting that nirvana feeling when it comes to
comfort via better dehumidification. Typically in 1st stage the capacity of the
system is around 70% of the full system capacity. By design this forces the
machine to run longer, thus providing a better dehumidification aspect. About 90%
of the time this type of machine will run in 1st stage.

A 3 degree band
(temperature control) is used to 'control' humidity in the above scenario. In
other words if you like temp at 75 and set the control to this number it will
cool only to 72 in an 'attempt' to 'control' humidity regardless of your
humidity setting. But humidity and temperature DO NOT run in tandem with one
another. So in a high humid climate with lower temps will do nothing to
'control' humidity. Remember the control is still based on temperature with a 3
degree band for dehumidification purpose.

If 2 stages are
better than one, then 5 AC stages or more must be better than two. Yes, 5 AC stages
will perform better in dehumidification mode than a 2 stage AC and profoundly
better than a single stage system.

BUT,
dehumidification control is still relegated to a 3 degree band via temperature
of the control. The only reason I say this is there is a remote chance (in a
high humid climate) that it 'may' not control humidity under all scenarios that
a high humid climate can dish out.

My location 'Katy, Texas'
has seen heavy and unusually long bouts of humidity over the past several years
toward the end of the cooling season and on occasion at the start of it. A 5
stage AC machine will handle this the most economically in my opinion,
depending greatly upon the manufacturer chosen. (Nearly all manufacturer's make
a 5 stage AC Machine)

A separate machine
to control humidity: This is the only method to actually control humidity via
dehumidification only. It will not humidify as in a 'humidifier' that would yet
be another system with separate costs.

The process a
dehumidifier uses is the same that your air conditioner uses except after the
air is cooled and dehumidified it is heated by passing it thru the condenser
coil of the dehumidifier. So essentially heat is added to the cooled air.
Depending on a bunch of various factors the air dispelled out the duct could be
as high as 90 degrees. But the air is dehumidified.

In a hot sticky
humid climate with already high utility bills a whole home dehumidifier is a
solution that will cost money. To operate, maintain and ultimately replace it.

My view:

All HVAC
systems break. There is no real difference in brand, type, model or anything
that guarantees you will not suffer breakage at some point. It could be 1 year,
5 year, 8 year, 12 year after the installation. Regardless whether you choose
single stage, 2 stage or 5 stage.

The difference is
what the manufacture allows for equipment warranty and the part prices they
charge for the part(s) your HVAC system needs to be repaired.

The manufacturer I
use for these kinds of systems offer a conditional life time replacement. Not
equipment life time, your life time. The con used to get you to choose the
Tranes of the world is that these systems are junk compared to Trane holy water
systems and they need this warranty because they always break down.

Here's a dose of
reality for you:

I've been installing these kinds of systems with this so
called 'inferior' brand for around 8 years now. If there are / were so many
problems of them failing and such how is it that I am writing a long essay response on this board? Because
I am unsuccessful? LOL. Or is it because I am that good? Believe what ever you
want.

Oh! I should be out
there fixing all these broken inferior equipment brands I've sold over the past
11 years of being in business instead of posting to a forum board. It's a
competitive world and a salesman will use anything to sell, because his
livelihood depends on it.

I would rather present
the facts (cost conundrums imposed via 'certain' manufacturer's over charging
for parts to pay for the well oiled marketing machine) I think you're old enough to make a decision based on facts rather than marketing hype.

I have a not too
distant plan to install an Inverter AC system at my home in Katy, Tx.
But my endeavor is challenging in that controls are more costly to deliver the
type of cooling / heating I want because I have a zoned AC system / with 4
separate zones. So while I could use the
manufacturer with the conditional life time replacement, the cost would be much
higher for my situation due to the control aspect of the zone system.

It would be worse
for me to choose Trane, American Standard, York,
Carrier, Lennox.

This problem I have comes
down to trade offs as well as costs. The other is simplicity, but to say
simplicity when applied to a HVAC zone system of 4 zones this is way over the
heads of those that so often try to feebly discredit me on this board.

Has Trane fixed the
control problems? To my knowledge, no.

York system: the York system you asked about is a heat pump
with 16 SEER rating. It is an inverter system but a poor one with merely a 16
SEER efficiency rating.

Most York LX series
are micro channel units. Micro channel mostly benefits the manufacturer as
there is often more work required when the refrigeration circuit breaks down
due to leaks, and other kinds of refrigeration circuit repairs. In my area York distributors don't
leave me with great feelings of being able to get parts when / if I need them. Given
that I run a service business to repair systems the last thing I need is not
being able to get a part when I need one. Been there done that.

I offer single stage
options, 2 stage options, Inverter options. Give you the facts and let you
decide, you are the one who will live with your decision whatever it is. It only makes sense to go with a 'life time' system if you have no
plans to sell the home. Otherwise you are doing it for someone else and the
warranty is reduced to 5 year parts.

This isn't 'HYPE'.
This is my experience of working on them and often times repairing them, choose
what you want given the facts.

With that said: I
work on and repair ALL brands, single speed, 2 speed, 5 speed doesn't matter they all break. Regardless of whether you have a Trane system or
whatever. My knowledge of these systems didn't get to be where it is by just
discrediting them because of part prices.

I have no experience with the Trane condensers. I do own Carrier Infinity 2-stage condensers with Carrier 3-stage variable speed furnaces controlled by Infinity controllers. These are fully communicating systems.

The humidity control for the past 10 summers has been very good. Even during with mild outdoor temperatures on an overcast rainy day I can set the indoor temperature at 78 degrees and achieve a 40-45% humidity.

The inverter type condensers are nice, but very expensive. I am not sure you need to spend that kind of money to achieve good humidity control. A load calculation is very important. An over sized condenser will give poor humidity control.

If you do go for a high end condenser, then look compare EER and SEER ratings. The SEER ratings don't give an accurate of indication of energy costs at high outdoor temperatures.

Mike it comes down to location. Humidity concerns depend on out door weather significantly your cooling season in New Jersey is what? 3 months long at best. I've never been to New Jersey but I think this hardly qualifies as a high humid location. I don't why you ignore things I say about location specific things. Maybe you could enlighten us?

We've debated the differences of EER and SEER before, you should know better than to mention this nonsense again.

It can get humid in New Jersey. Actually this cooling season we had a several days of cool rainy weather where my AC was having trouble keeping the humidity below 60%. That was the first time that happened in 10 years. The cooling season is May through September.

You are welcome to your opinion that EER ratings are nonsense.

Austin Air, do you do load calculations (called Manual J or something like that) when installing new equipment? I think your answer to that question addresses your expertise and approach to the work you do, the better contractors in my area always do so.

If a single stage AC unit turns off before it's reduced humidity, isn't that a sign it's oversized and running short cycles as a result? What do you do for your customers to avoid that?

if a single stage AC unit turns off before it's reduced humidity.... means it's over sized.

Yes, you're exactly right. That is why the manufacturer's make 2 stage AC's as well as 5 stages and full variable inverter speeds. To 'deal' with the problem of humidity versus temperature. (a single speed air conditioner was not designed to 'control' humidity. Heat load or no heat load.)

Well why can't you then just whip out the magical heat load calculation and size the single speed AC to handle the humidity?

Because humidity in a high humid climate is one facet to the whole problem.

Houston area design temp is 95 degree outdoor and 75 degree indoor. That is the design. Because typically summer time temps average around 95 degrees.

But not always... some times we may hit 100 degrees and slightly above for 30 days or more.

So because Houston area summer design temp is 95 how are you going to design the system to operate during times of the year in which the outdoor temperature is less than 95 and humidity is high via a heat load calculation primarily based on temperature calculation? Nothing is that perfect in an imperfect world.

Remember in high humid climate you also typically deal with hot heavy loads as well. But these loads vary.

The cooling day doesn't start at 95. Typically during summer time my area starts the day in the low to mid 70's and builds to the average of 95. But there are days of summer in which we start the day in the 80's. How do you account for that in your super duper heat load? (heat load calculation is a tool that I use when the job calls for it, it has fallacies just as much as anything else.)

So during the times in which the lows are in the 70's here, there isn't a single air conditioner that is sized properly. (over sized due to outdoor ambient conditions.)

What do I do for my customers that notice these humidity problems in their home?

Explain it much the same way I do here. Advise them that their system was not designed for humidity control and depending on their current HVAC system attributes advise them of possible upgrades to better handle dehumidification. I also tell them there is 'no free lunch' when it comes to dehumidification in a 'HIGH HUMID CLIMATE' like where I live.

To Ray:

Go look at the conditions SEER rating is calculated. Once you do that we can discuss whether it is a realistic representation of a season.

my apologies to Elmer J Fudd as misidentifying him as the author of a previous post...

TD

No problem. As the late, great Chick Hearn, the broadcast voice of the LA Lakers often said...."No harm, no foul". Thx.

Mike,

Oh so you want a 'realistic' representation of a cooling season comprised from a calculation?

SEER is about as close as you can get... even with all the inadequacies of that formula it does a better job than EER, which is why HVAC manufacturer's use the SEER formula.

HVAC is more or less a rule of averages, because the loads of the structure are constantly changing. Trying to size (a load) that continually changes and then come up with a formula to denote the efficiency of such... you could split hairs from now until infinity and be no closer than the SEER formula itself.

As a tongue in cheek example: the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

Since the dawn of time, man has never experienced a load as great as that flaming rock in the sky. The load continually changes from one day to the next, thru the seasons and so on.

So what you are asking for is a calculation that is accurate in relation to what the sun does. I have enough wisdom to know when folly is all that will be achieved in such an endeavor. Good luck.

As I stated earlier you are entitled to your opinion about EER ratings. New AC installations in the Southwest states have to meet a minimum EER rating. There is a reason this has been done.

Because they (southwest states '4' of them) are in desert conditions with extremes in temperature and spend more time at and above 95 degrees Fahrenheit. The rule still uses SEER rating for those areas as well.

The EER rating as such is scratched out in the document for other areas 'outside' the southwest region. Why? ( the same reason I have provided you all along. >temperature<)

There are 50 states in the USA. The southwest region consists of 4 states. My location is outside the southwest region.

If you look to the supporting document link that I post Energy Efficiency Regional Requirements

If you spend little to no time at 95 degrees or above ambient heat the EER rating doesn't mean much of anything. If you don't understand the rule, you shouldn't be making wild erroneous claims.

With that said, the distributors in your area (wherever you live) are only going to stock equipment that can be installed legally in your area of residence. A distributor is not going to stock equipment they can not legally sell. I couldn't buy a 13 SEER air conditioner where I live even if I wanted it.

(I could probably buy it on line though... this is how foolish people get into trouble by doing foolish things they do not fully understand.)

We have a new XV-18 system, and it doesn't control humidity any better than a standard HVAC system. In fact, it's worse. Much worse. The humidity in our home typically runs 5-20% higher than all our neighbor's who have old-school heat-pumps. In our house, we sweat just because we are breathing.

What is your location and what are the outdoor and indoor humidity levels? What temperature level are you trying to maintain? What thermostat was installed? Was the size of the AC increased compared to the old one?

"We have a new XV-18 system, and it doesn't control humidity any better than a standard HVAC system. In fact, it's worse. Much worse."

Sounds like an installation/setup problem. I'd get the installer to come back and fix it. The system should be a noticeable improvement (minimally) over your old system.

have to agree with sktn77a...improvement on operating cost and humidity control...

We have a new XV-18 system, and it doesn't control humidity any better than a standard HVAC system. In fact, it's worse. Much worse.

Kimberly, this is most likely an installation issue. 'Improper installation.'

If this type of equipment isn't installed properly, this is often the result. You need to get installing contractor involved in rectifying the issue... the warranty 'their own work' is on them.

Either that: You hire a new company to come and fix it and pay them out of pocket.

Another avenue would be to contact Trane... that may be quite a run around. Remember the squeaky wheel is what gets the grease eventually.

We have two XV-18's They are amazing and perfect for our home; very quiet, provide extremely fast cooling and love the variable speed which I can monitor on the Nexia app; we have commercial grade installation, and the home, although a pretty large, is highly insulated and tight.

I have had a 5 ton Trane XV18 for six years in hot, humid south Louisiana. Maintains my set temperature, and my 50% humidity setting . Very quiet. I would buy again

The opposition or "Trane Derailer" if you prefer is Bosch Inverter. I have one at my house and love it. Doesn't require a proprietary controller to run it.

mike_home lookee here...

-------------------- some irony from a distant comment from above ------------

As I stated earlier you are entitled to your opinion about EER ratings. New AC installations in the Southwest states have to meet a minimum EER rating. There is a reason this has been done.

The 2023 DOE Regulatory changes provides information to help you get up to speed with the new requirements, including: • Minimum efficiency changes with maps/charts • New SEER2, EER2 and HSPF2 test procedures • Regulatory-ready product updates • Non-compliance consequences • How to protect your business and maintain critical records.

This is gonna be fun kiddos. LOL.

I live in the woodlands, which brand would you recommend for a 40 year old house 1900 sq ft. Only 2 bedrooms upstairs with a walk in attic. I thought Trane, but looks like it's buying a foreign race car, pretty but the costs will kill you for repairs.

Nick unfortunately if you don't have the money, you're not going to like the answer. While there are other solutions beside Trane they all cost real money.

Given the heat of your climate, you'll pay for it one way or another either in utility costs, equipment cost, maintenance costs & repair costs. They all break, they all need maintenance, they all need repairs from time to time.

Certainly an Inverter type air conditioner will cost more to repair, not to mention cost more up front the repairs will vary on what is wrong with it just as with any air conditioner. But compared to a regular AC that will break too, cost money to repair... the difference for our climate is that the AC Inverter will cut your electric bill in half.

The answer depends on how important comfort is to you. It cost money, no way around that obstacle.

I have an AC inverter at my house, in the video below I show the difference in operational costs (my actual electric bills) from 14 SEER traditional single speed AC to an 18 SEER Bosch Inverter.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Where are you located? What is the typical summer high temperature? If the area is wooded, does the AC run much when the sun sets?

Trane and it's sister brand American Standard, Carrier and sister brand Bryant are regarded as good brands. If you want lower initial costs Goodman and Payne are brands to consider. If you are worried about high repair costs then avoid equipment which has variable speed DC motors. Most manufacturers offer a 10 year parts warranty. Labor warranty is usually only one year. Some installers will offer 2- 5 years of labor coverage, and some times as high as 10 years. Don't shop strictly by brand. Find a competent installer you trust and see what brand he installs.

It is 90-95 with 95% humidity 6 months of the year. i purchased the Trane XV18 which gets installed today. Ac’s been out for 5 days at 92 outside

The woodlands is an area close to austin air’s location. i get lucky sometime with quick showers (15 minutes) because we have about 8 lakes next to us. but in the summer it hits 102 with 99% humidity which really hard on my goodman single stage.

I thought you were still shopping for a system but it seems you already made your decision. The Trane XV18 is good equipment provided it is sized and installed correctly.

Which air handler or furnace, and thermostat will be installed? It is important these all work together correctly if you want the best humidity control.

I was shopping, but is currently 92 degrees outside and 82 in my house with a broken goodman. so i got a Trane as its prefeered and i couldnt take the time to wait. A trusted company gave me 3k in rebates, so i couldnt turn it down

I was shopping, but is currently 92 degrees outside and 82 in my house

Nick just blew everyone's mind as to how hot it actually is down here, lol. In mid October no less... Some places don't even get this hot during the 'regular summer'.

If you can't take the heat, get out of....

Most areas are subject to occasional temperature excursions above and below averages. That's the weather. HVAC systems are not designed for "weather" conditions, but rather for climate zone. The EPA Energy Star design requirements (which are based on ASHRAE guidelines) for Harris County, TX are a maximum of 97F for cooling (1%) and a minimum of 27F for heating (99%)

If you can't take the heat, get out of....

You should stop following *me* into the attic.

With over 27 years in HVAC, over 20 years in this brutal "tropical like" climate, 14 years operating my own HVAC company...

97F degrees in the attic? no where remotely close.

@Austin Air Companie,

Maybe you could be retrained as a computer networking specialist or a cyber-security expert. Then you wouldn't need to work in the uncomfortable conditions of your current service profession. I can so see you doing battle with evil electrons in air conditioned comfort (for truth, justice and the Raymerican way...) and, if the air conditioning goes on the fritz, telling 'em how to fix it while berating the technicians doing so.

Or you might consider opening a branch office in a different climate zone and commuting between the two based on weather. Then again, you've got your videography and narration abilities. So many possibilities.

The primary reason I started my own company... too many people who thought they could tell me what to do.

No thumbs in my back. The freedom of not being told what to do, is quite liberating. Obviously many don't like it.

Maybe you should go back to chemical engineering Charles? 18 years is a long time to simply waste just to tell contractually obligated people where to slam a nail into various wood species.

We'll see how much Charles likes it......

@Austin Air Companie,

You complained about the working conditions of your chosen profession. I thought you might need some help thinking through some possibilities. There's no reason you can't own your own cyber security business, film studio, networking company, etc. A change might be like a breath of fresh air, so to speak.

I complained? Show me where I complained.

Read. Comprehend what it is you're reading...

Ray,

In the past, you have advocated for "reading between the lines." I've interpreted your post to be seeking validation for a career change. If that's not a correct read, and if you want to stay in HVAC and crawl around in hot attics in Katy, TX, you might consider a cooling vest. Here's one such vest:

https://www.vortec.com/cooling-vest-xl?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZTS--zO8wIVB4iGCh1R4gHaEAQYASABEgI68fD_BwE

You could wear it whenever working in attics or even whenever you're brainstorming to keep from overheating.

Here's hoping your career choice--and your vest---are a great fit!

Ray,

In the past, you have advocated for "reading between the lines."

Yeah other people visiting this site. Not you. LOL. You still have to read and understand what is being written... to get to the point of "reading between the lines".

I said that because I estimated that it was likely to be over your head.... thanks for proving me right. LOL.

Now if I was "really complaining" -- it is from you, Charles trying to tell me what to do [Without a contract in place.] -- that's a no-no you "should" understand. (contractual obligations as you like to call them.)