stupidlazydog

Spider mites. I hate them.

Spider mites on Adeniums again. And now I find them on my big E. bupleurifolia. In the 14 years I've had that plant, it's never had bugs of any sort, and now I find spider mites, thanks to the Adenium that was sitting next to it. For me, Adeniums are spider mite magnets. I've had 'em on Pachypodiums in the past, but have been able to get rid of them, and stay rid of them, but they just keep coming back to the Adeniums. I'm on the brink of getting rid of all Adeniums.


Well, just had to vent. Thanks for listening :-)

Comments (118)

  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    Jenn ,

    You’re doing things exactly how I’m doing at the moment as far as washing the plants . 91% alcohol seems to remove the eggs and kill the mites so it can all be rinsed off . BUT , the alcohol completely removes the farina . Big bummer in my book . Switched to 70% . Some farina is removed on some and all of it on others . But looking at them through the 🎙 afterwards shows 75-90% egg reduction . So that’s good . Are your succulents indoors or outdoors? Do you have a dog ? I have some Avid and I may try it . I’m starting to feel a tad safer if I spray outside, then let the plants dry and bring them inside. So many ppl use it on weed . Surely it can’t be that bad . lol . But I know they use it before flowering .

    Stupidlazydog,

    Glad I ain’t the only plant fiend . I am so thankful to you for your help . Looking forward to killing these mites and getting on with life . Ima check my trees one more time with a microscope. Maybe I hallucinated the mites in the tree leaves 🤣. I hope so . So gotta come up with a plan for those trees ASAP . May Avid the entire property . I have enough to do so . lol .

    Ewwmayo,

    I bought some smaller amounts of Forbid 4F and I’m gonna find smaller amounts of Akari . It sounds awesome. And it can be used in my ultra low volume sprayer . Need to check the other miticides to be sure . Thanks you so much for your help . So reassuring to know these didn’t burn your leaves . What do you think of Bifenthrin as a first spray ? At least while I wait for the others to arrive . Can you recommend a good pesticide sprayer that gives a fine mist and makes it easy to get under leaves ? I always spray way too much of anything cuz my pump sprayer is awkward. By the time I get the upper and lower leaves , the plant is just dripping. Then I do sometimes get some leaf shrivel cuz I’ve used too much ( such as Bifenthrin). Are all these miticides safe to get into the root zone and soil ? I’d hate to dry the roots . I’d REALLY hate to have to unpot every plant and have to repot . I use an expensive home made gritty mix . I’ve read you’re supposed to repot in fresh soil . I do NOT wanna throw away that much pumice, turface and coir . Have to drive 50 plus miles to get the pumice . Thanks so much for everything! All of you 😊

  • ewwmayo
    last month

    @Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6 I've done the same for stores and garden centers with mealybugs and other things. It's a big reason I don't buy from stores for a long time now. I used to love just going in to look at plants and going to all the stores but these days not so much.


    @Jennifer Liebo Some of the trees around my place/yard are eaten buy things, but mostly I believe it's due to moths and caterpillars rather than mites. Last year the caterpillars practically stripped my mulberry tree bare in the middle of summer. They do a number on my plum tree too. The neighbourhood has sprayed with BTK before but it can only do so much.

    When I say spray 2 times in a row means that you can spray a miticide once, wait a week or two, then spray the same miticide again. After that, switch to a different miticide. If you have 3 miticides, this helps you cover up to 6 weeks of treatment which should be enough to kill everything.

    Regarding indoors vs outdoors, I spray outdoors always. Good practice is to avoid exposure as much as possible. Even though we are not mites and won't be killed, many of the miticides recommend wearing gloves/mask/long clothes/etc. Everybody has a mask these days and maybe even glasses/googles so use them!

    When spraying water to remove mites, make sure to keep other plants FAR away. Personal experience is that you can send some flying on to other plants in your collection, so watch out for that. I never thought of washing soap off 30 minutes after spraying. Interesting idea and I might have to try that because it would have prevented burning of leaves on my plants in the past.

    Triple rinse is for the sprayer. Here is a poster guide and some videos how to do it: https://croplife.org/crop-protection/stewardship/container-management/triple-rinse/ . It's a good idea so you don't have to worry about residual mixing of miticides. Do not rinse any of the miticides after spraying because you want them to be absorbed into the leaves if translaminar or the residues to remain if they are types that are effective for days/weeks after treatment.

    Thanks for the Spinosad/thrips/mites info! I figured you thought you had thrips. One good thing to note is that Avid and Pylon are also effective against thrips (for future reference). I didn't check for Tetrasan because I don't own any. Most pesticides have other additives to help them work better. Some help them stick, others coat surfaces better, and others to just improve the effectiveness. That's a big reason not to mix different types together unless the manufacturers approve those combinations.

    Since you bought some Forbid 4F, just remember to check the label and do NOT use Pelargonium if you have any in your collection! Just make notes for yourself to don't forget. It's a good idea to keep a journal or list of what you did/sprayed when to keep track of your progress and treatments. They form a good reference in case you need to do it again.

    Bifenethrin is probably good for a first spray in the meantime, yes. I just use a sprayer with adjustable nozzle from the hardware store which has some chemical resistance on the o-rings and gaskets. It's fine to leave your plants potted up. Don't bother unpotting because that would be a tremendous waste of time. You don't have to use fresh soil with your planned miticides. I also use my own gritty mix with pumice, turface, lava rock, etc.

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked ewwmayo
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  • ewwmayo
    last month

    @Jennifer Liebo This is the microscope I have: Pluggable 2MP USB MIcroscope. One big tip I have from macro photography is to set the desired focus and magnification of your microscope first. Then adjust the height of your plant and the microscope to get the spot you want to photograph in sharp focus. It should be much easier to adjust the plant or microscope rather than fiddling with the focus. Mine has an arm, which makes that process much easier.

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked ewwmayo
  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    Ewwmayo ,

    You’re an angel sent straight from heaven ! Ya know that ? I typed a big reply yesterday and it disappeared. It’s a bummer your trees are getting eaten too . Think I have all the bugs you have and the mites . Got an arborist coming tomorrow to have a look see and a free estimate. I sure hope it ain’t too expensive. And you’re right . The BT can only do so much. I need to spray some BT soon . Gonna let the arborist come before I do anything else with the trees tho. Even my brand new saplings are getting eaten by crap .

    Thanks for clarifying the two sprays in a row . I’m cleaning my trailer out today so I can spray the plants outside. Then take them to the trailer for a few days to marinate and stay outa the light . Gonna start with Avid .

    Yep . My plan is to spray outdoors no matter what the chemicals. Then bring inside. I just wanted indoor safe stuff cuz u figured it had to be less toxic all the way around if it was safe to actually spray indoors .

    Speaking of spraying with water ! All the plants I sprayed with alcohol or soap and then rinsed have more black stippling on them than EVER now . Leaves that looked fine after the process are horrid looking now . I wonder if the wounds the spider mites left soaked up the alcohol and soap more than the healthy leaves . Thanks have them all a 24 hour rest after their wash in front of a fan before putting back under the lights . Maybe I should have gave them no light for several days . Cuz the ugly black spots didn’t show up til they’d been back under my lights a couple of days . I’ve looked under my microscope at some of the bad leaves and can’t tell if it’s light/chemical burn or spider mite damage cuz I’d washed them so well they are pretty clean of any mites right now. I do see yellow spots in some of the stipples under the microscope. It’s just not strong enough to tell of the yellow spots are dead mites , eggs or just chemical damage . Do you think it’s safe to spray them when they’re already looking so burnt and damaged ? And I did keep em fat from other plants when I sprayed . Did the whole thing in my gravel driveway. But of course those damn mite infested trees are right above me no matter where I am . There’s no escape from the trees . I’ll make sure to suit up well for my spraying adventure. I’ve got a new full face respirator ( hurts my nose tho . Very uncomfortable. But I’ll deal 🤣.)

    I’ll triple rinse the sprayer and make certain I get no water on the leaves after spraying the Avid. I’m good at not getting my leaves wet . I rigged a pump sprayer that I use to water my plants at dirt level only . I took the tip off and it just puts out a nice stream of water . I put the tip of the wand right against the soil and water that way . Works great! I can reach every plant to water it without moving a single plant .

    If you try the soap and then rinse , ya might wanna rinse before 30 minutes. Just considering that my plants still burned despite rinsing . Sheesh ! That stuff is no joke . You’re welcome! Hope that helps you somehow 😊.

    Glad to know Avid and Pylon kill thrips too . I’ve heard they’re worse than mites ! They must be TERRIBLE!

    It makes perfect sense not to mix any miticides . I’ve always thought that they could have excipients that would react to each other unless it’s specified that 2 chemicals can be mixed . I also have a slight mealybug problem. Thanks have sprayed a few plants with Acetamiprid and they seemed to do well. Acetamiprid kills eggs of Mealybugs too . I’ve not found both mites and mealies on any plants together. But I gotta treat for both coz I can’t be having Mealybugs take over . Ima research whether miticides make Mealybugs worse . With my luck , they probably do . I’ll kill the mites and suddenly come home one day to a bunch of plants that look white cuz they are so covered with Mealybugs 🤣

    Good idea about the journal . I really need to do that . Cuz I’ve already lost track of which plants got sprayed with Acetamiprid. I have one crested Fred Ives that arrived with tons of egg sacs . Washed it thoroughly, sprayed with alcohol every few days . And yes looked under the microscope the other day and saw Mealybug eggsacs between every stinkin leaf . I had sprayed it a week before with Acetamiprid. But I need to get those eggsacs off to be safe.

    I think I’ll just jump straight to the Avid . But I guess I should do a couple of test plants before all of them .

    Thank you so much for the link to the microscope. Sounds amazing! Gonna look now . Better go clean. Wish I had a clone who could do all this work while I napped . Not much sleep lately cuz of worry. Have an amazing day 😊

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Jennifer Liebo
  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    By the way . Here’s a couple pics of my plants after their wash down and then getting put back under lights . These had a good 24 hours or more without being under the grow lights . They sat in my foyer floor next to a fan to make sure the water had dried from the leaves . Some had a strong alcohol spray on them for a few minutes to an hour tops before I rinsed them with the flat setting oh my hose . The pressure on the hose is excellent. Wondering if they A) Got alcohol burn that didn’t show up until they got grow light . B ) Got insecticidal soap burn even though it was left on 30 minutes tops and rinsed off . C) The force of the hose water bruised them a bit . D) There was invisible spider mite damage that absorbed the alcohol or insecticidal soap and didn’t become apparent until after treatment . Notice how the middle leaves of these Look fine . I’ve had a few where the middle leaves had this look too . But this didn’t show up on ANY of these til they’d been under the lights a couple days . They’re very used to the lights . They’ve been under the same lights for a year . The ones that are still in front of the fan on the floor don’t show these spots . Just the ones under the lights . Maybe I shoulda gave them even more days without the grow lights . Not every plant reacted this way . Should be blew them perk back up before I spray Avid ? How many days after spraying Avid would phyto toxicity show up ? Here are the pics . Thanks to anyone with ideas . Y’all are all wonderful. So glad I finally posted . I’ve been a lurker since 2017 on Houzz 🤣

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  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    I had the cutest Blue Moonstone tree that was the envy of many moonstone lovers . Perfect powdery farina . Fat , eggy leaves . Now it’s all spotted up too 😭. They grow SO SLOW ! And I barely used any alcohol on it . I sprayed 70% and then immediately rinsed cuz u love this one so much. And it sat near the fan for 1-2 days before it t went back under lights . This is so odd. This one only had a couple pieces of webbing on it under the microscope. From now on , no alcohol. If I rinse at all , I’ll be plain water with the shower setting . The setting of Ive been using on these is the flat fan . Kinda like a pressure washer . Think I bruised the moonstone tree . Then the damage to f that became apparent under the lights . The lights brought it out .

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  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Just wondering: what is the point of spraying with rubbing alcohol if:..."I sprayed 70% and then immediately rinsed"... It doesn't have time to work at all.

    Truth is I do not remember ever spraying same plant with anything since - so far - it wasn't needed, but have used 99% alcohol on similar plants to get rid of mealies (for example Graptopetalum). RU dries quite fast on it's own, I always hope I hit mealies directly (I often see them 'melt' so I am sure I do). I did have damage on few plants sometimes ago from them being oversprayed with mosquito repellent and plants being in sun - didn't notice until after few hrs. It took quite some time for new leaves to grow to replace old, sprayed ones. They didn't fall off, just were ugly.

    I keep succulents outdoors as long as weather permits. There are spiders (I can see their webs ...) and some other bugs crawling around occasionally - I do not spray to get rid of them. I do spray for mealies if any. If that happens, I just keep plant in a shade for a day.

    I use garden hose sometimes to water them without any bruising, but with a shower setting. I am sure some more 'delicate' plants would get bruised by strong blast. Hope your moonstone recovers fast. It is very nice plant.

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  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    Rina ,

    I sprayed mine with the alcohol to kill spider mites and loosen up the eggs so I could rinse the eggs off . The alcohol actually did have time to work . I watched the spider mites on some of the plants die as soon as I sprayed. They collapsed immediately and stopped moving. I’d spent days experimenting with spraying alcohol on different plants while watching under a microscope to see if it killed the mites . It killed them every time . But then they leave eggs and webbing behind . I noticed that the alcohol, if sprayed and then washed off quickly, killed the mites and seemed to loosen up most of the eggs . So that’s why I was doing it that way . I’ve sprayed many of my succulents with alcohol and left it on them . They were fine . That’s why I’m puzzled about the moonstone. And the others. Been fighting spider mites for a couple of weeks . They’ve been on my plants for a couple of months. But these are so small that they could only be seen with a microscope. It took me that long to realize that it was more than just grow light burn .

    I can’t dream of having outside succs here . They just do terribly here outside. My property is teeming with all the bad bugs and no good ones . So the succs get eaten and ruined here . Mine are way too expensive to risk them outside here 🤣. I think I did bruise some of them . And I also think they were more sensitive to the alcohol cuz of the small wounds that the spider mites had made . I have an arborist coming today to look at the trees outside. They’re thick with mites . That’s where these came from . They got inside cuz one of the trees is in my dog lot that’s attached to the house . The main door stays open 24/7 and there is a storm door with a doggie door that leads to the lot so my dog can go potty and sunbathe . They followed her in cuz the branches were touching the house and some close to the porch she lays on .

    Thanks for wishing my moonstone a speedy recovery. I’m hoping for that too. Thanks for the compliment too . I love my moonstone tree . She will be perfect again. Even if it takes forever. Once I’m rid of the mites , I’ll fertilize my succulents. They need a boost . But I won’t do it now cuz I read that it makes mites worse .

    Thanks for your comment 😊

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  • ewwmayo
    last month

    @Jennifer Liebo I tried to post something with lots of photos in another thread and Houzz ate my post too. Bah!

    As for your damaged leaves, I think it was the force of your water spray and possibly the soap. Insecticidal soap is like normal soap so rinsing should not need some crazy force (think of your hands and sink). No idea how the miticides will affect your plants. Probably okay but I never had that issue before. As @rina_Ontario,Canada 5a mentions, I've only used the gentle shower setting on my garden sprayer to rinse off dust or pollen and that's it. I also agree with Rina that it makes sense to let the alcohol dry and perform it's function before rinsing. The alcohol needs to evaporate and dry out the mites to kill them, just wetting will not be enough.

    Honestly, if you have those good miticides coming in I would stop fussing about spraying eggs/whatnot. You could just fling them and spread them everywhere instead of killing them. Make sure you have a good plan, the right equipment, and a log book or file to record your observations. Make notes on plants you are observing with infestation and record numbers of mites, then after your treatments check on those plants and update your notes regularly so you can track the decline/hopeful eradication. Also think of how to keep mites from your trees away from your collection if possible.

    For your full face respirator, make sure to read the instructions and do a fit check to ensure it seals well on your face before spraying. It's an important to check that and the valve operation every time you use the mask. Good fit is really important and you should adjust it so that while you move around/bend over/work that it does not let air in the sides.

    Be advised that Acetamiprid is a systemic and has some toxicity to bees. If you have flowering plants may be a good idea to keep them indoors while they flower. I never used it before but something worth checking.

    The pluggable USB microscope is pretty decent. I took a couple photos yesterday (see below) but really don't expect super amazing images! For really tiny mites and high detail, my friend's commercial Nikon microscope was infinitely better. If I didn't have my friend to help me, the USB microscope would have been my key to understanding what was going on.

    If you have spots where you know there are eggs and immature mites growing, after spraying you can check those areas and see how they change to determine if what you are doing is effective or not.

    Live mites are moving around and feeding. Dead mites just sit motionless forever. Dead eggs I don't think look very different but I don't remember.



    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked ewwmayo
  • Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
    last month

    Be happy you don’t have mealie bugs. Those are worst and eventually take down your collection. Usually your favorite. Make sure you are at the ready for those too.

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
  • stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
    Original Author
    last month

    Root mealies are the absolute worst. Often, by the time you know you have them, the plant is near death's door. For me they attacked during the winter when my cactus and a lot of my other plants were dormant, so you couldn't tell anything was wrong until spring. In the meantime the mealies had months of sucking the life out of the roots.


  • Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6
    last month

    I though systemic imidacloprid worked great for all types of mealies. How did you treat them?

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  • stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
    Original Author
    last month

    Some of the cactus I bare rooted and soaked the roots in hot (120°) water for a few minutes. For all plants I did use a drench of imidacloprid (Bayer tree and shrub). It did work great, but there were some plants that had lost too many roots to recover. I haven't seen any signs of root mealies on plants I've repotted this year, but I'm doing another drench this summer, to make sure the mealies stay away.

  • Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
    last month

    If I had known that worked I would of used it Stush. Shoot. I did the alcohol method suggest in this form to no avail once I got my hands on some. Was too late

    Wendy , I lost the variegated hobbit you gave me and my variegated Gollum and the Langlois. So depressed. If there is a next time I’ll know better. Wish someone wound share a cutting of what I have out but that would be a miracle )
    At Least plants from some of mine will live on. )
    Hope you are all safe and well

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
  • stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
    Original Author
    last month

    Mike, so sorry to hear you lost those plants. The Legolas I got from you is doing well, but still too small to take a cutting. When It's big enough, I'll send you a cutting, maybe next year if things go well :-)

  • Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6
    last month

    Mike, Mine did a nose dive. Lost 1/2 of it. But if it recovers, I'll send it back to you. I got it too wet and too long to dry out. The one Chris sent is still doing well. Maybe due to so little variegation in it. Makes it a stronger plant.

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6
  • Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
    last month

    Hi both of you can’t thank you enough. I wish I had done the process you did Stush. Dam it. I kept waiting for alcohol and I even used all season dormant oil I had. I am so bummed. You are both very kind.
    Wendy , I list the one you gave me too. I the one we traded!! Ugh.
    Hugs to both and please stay safe. Weird things going on lately. I’m glad we have people like each other in our lives.
    Mike

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
  • stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a
    Original Author
    last month

    Mike, so sorry you lost the variegated Gollum I gave you. I wish I could send you another piece, but the original plant died. After I took 3 cuttings off of it (one to you, and 2 small ones I kept) the original plant only grew new albino leaves and eventually died. The 2 cuttings from it that I had rooted and are doing o.k. but they are tiny and have quite a bit of white so grow terribly slowly. It'll be a long long time before I can take any cuttings from them. Assuming I don't kill them.

  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    @ewwmayo


    I got the microscope you recommended. It’s easier to focus than mine , but not as strong . Thanks still used both . Like the gooseneck better on the pluggable . But it’s not as tall as the other I have . Wish I could put the 2 in a blender and make a perfect combo 🤣. It’s nice to actually have the darn thing be still . And I can at least make out mites and Mealybugs with it . So that’s good .


    The point of me washing the plants also has to do with The fact that they are very dusty. And they also have dog hair on them and everything else. LOL. I do believe that I bruised my plants with too harsh of a stream of water. I used the harsher stream thinking that it would wash the eggs off. The plants also need watered very badly. So I was just doing all of that at once. Watering, cleaning, and trying to spray off bugs n eggs . I will just stick to the shower saving from now on. I just noticed in the past that it didn’t get the plants as clean as I would’ve liked. But it gets them cleaner than nothing. I figured that if they were nice and clean and watered and plump, They would be better off when I treated them and not be so stressed from lack of water and all that dust on them.


    I have definitely made sure that my mask fits. It fits really really well. I’m very picky about the face fit of a mask. I think I will go ahead and spray a few plants with I have it Tomorrowland’s I meant avid. I am trying to talk text because my phone will not type correctly and it is pissing me off LOL.I have to go to bed now.


    how many days should I wait to see if the avid damages my plants before I proceed with the others?


    Thank you for all your help! I really appreciate it. If I did not reply to any of the comments that you made, I didn’t mean to skip over any of them. I am just exhausted from working all day on these plants.

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Jennifer Liebo
  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    @Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)


    I actually do have Millie bugs as well as spider mites. It is a huge bummer. Because both of them are microscopic. I don’t have the normal Millie bugs that you can see. Just microscopic ones that eat my plants and I didn’t even know I had them until I looked under the microscope. I will tell you that I see the map read . Acetamiprid kills the mealybugs day r and their eggs . But as @ewwmayo said. They do kill bees. All of my plants are indoors. So I do not have to worry about it killing the bees. I do not use it on outdoor plants. I did a lot of research to find out the perfect ingredient to kill bugs. I mean Millie bugs. I am talk texting because my keyboard on my phone keeps locking up. Sorry for all the typos I am having to talk like a robot to even make it work because it doesn’t understand my southern accent.I know your pain with the bastards. I have lost many plants to them in the past. If your plants are outdoors, I don’t know what would work for them as well as what I use. I will tell you the name of it tomorrow. It is an ortho fruit flower and vegetable treatment. I hope that you can get rid of them because I hate them so much.i know that it’s spelle mealybugs. My phone won’t let me backspace for some reason. Lol . Talk text is lame sometimes. Lol . Good night y’all and thanks 😊

  • Nicole Puiia
    last month

    Glad I found this thread. I lost an Echeveria Champagne last year very suddenly. And I noticed it had all these black speckles on it. I actually noticed those a good month before but thought I just got messy with my worm castings. then my Echeveria Lola babies were looking similar the past week or so. But much worse. I have a lighted magnifier and took pics with my iphone then zoomed WAY in. My god, they are small. But I finally saw something resembling bugs. But NOTHING on google shows that black speckling damage! Ever. I’ve even went through the pests and googled spider mites before but never see that black. But I posted pics on here and someone linked me to this thread! FINALLY, i see something that matches what I am seeing. Mostly on the underside of the leaves and where it attaches to the stem and always the older/lower leaves. New growth seems fine. The Champagne is long gone and surprisingly the issue seemed to die with the plant (which is funny because I kept a handful of leaves that are still in the room in a bowl to this day). I haven’t noticed any black on my other plants yet (fingers crossed). But I removed my baby Lolas, coated them in alcohol, then basically gave them a bath with warm water and dawn dish soap and used a paint brush to make sure I got every inch of them. I pulled any leaves with black and they are just laying on a napkin now. Hoping that’s enough. I’ll watch them for a bit before re potting them. Just glad I finally found some sort of “diagnosis” for this mystery black pepper looking stuff 😒 I actually just had a different Champagne hybrid imported a month ago and it is also “peppered”. Freaking out a bit, now, knowing what it is. and annoyed that it arrived like that. does the pepper looking black stay on the leaves once the mites are gone? Hoping it’s just damage from an old infestation. Tempted to pull all the peppered leaves now... WHY DO THEY ATTACK ALL MY CHAMPAGNES?!? 🙄 Maybe I’m not meant to have this plant. Haha

    definitely throwing away those old leaves. Never rooted, anyway.

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  • Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6
    last month

    Mike, Remember to keep record of using Cheap Dollar Store Mouthwash as a spray to kill many problems with plants. It contains alcohol and is needed to kill germs and disinfect cuts and injures on leaves. I use it in a spray bottle with a spoonful of baking soda. I even use it as a spray disinfectant around the house. I like the minty smell as a bonus.

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  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    @ewwmayo ,


    since I have Avid , Forbid , Floramite and Tetrasan , I plan to do Avid first . Should I do Forbid second ? And then Floramite or Tetrasan last ? It seems you’d listed the perfect order in which to use them somewhere and now I cant find it . Thanks again. Gonna start spraying when I get home from work . Gonna star with ones I don’t love most. That way I can gauge the reaction. I’ll leave in my trailer for 24 hours and bring home . How long would you think it would take for signs of phyto to to show ? Thanks again! You’ve saved my succulents. 😊

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  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Nicole Puiia

    You mentioned worm castings in your potting mix. I may have mentioned in your original thread that potting mix needs to drain fast, and not retain water for too long. JMO, and others may disagree, but making potting mix more inorganic may hep. Omit worm castings, add lots of sifted/rinsed perlite or pumice (at least 50%) and/or other inorganic materials (grit, scoria and similar).

    More tips in YOUR ORIGINAL THREAD HERE

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  • ewwmayo
    last month
    last modified: last month

    @Jennifer Liebo - Yes, a good 4-week plan would be:

    1. Avid
    2. Floramite w/PH down
    3. Forbid
    4. Tetrasan

    This way you are targeting the mobile stages (adults/immatures) and then immatures/eggs after that. You can do two applications in a row of any of them (waiting a week in between). If there is any damage to your plants, you should see it in a couple of days. Hopefully it goes well for you!!

    @Nicole Puiia - Glad you are figuring out what the problem was finally! It's always hard to tell on highly magnified (and sometimes pixellated) images. If they are mites you should be able to see their legs moving about.

    As many of the very experienced growers around here have said, some plants are just more attractive to certain pests than others!

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  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    @ewwmayo ,


    Thanks again ! I don’t know what I’d do without your help and everyone else‘s help on here . Y’all have been awesome! Thank you too @stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a, @socks, @stush . I’m trying to tag you , @Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6. I will get started on that . I chickened out on the Avid last night cuz I read that dogs are extremely sensitive to it. Ugh ! I need to quit messing around and get to spraying something 🤣. I appreciate the order in which to spray . It’s so good to know the right order . Do Your Own Pest Control says you can mix Forbid and Avid . Hmmm 🤔. There is Minx 2 that’s a water based formula, but has a rather high ph . I’m wondering if the VOC’s are the big danger of Avid . As you say , @ewwmayo , they evaporate off . I know you’re sound like a paranoid weenie worrying like I do . If not for my dog , I’d be spraying Avid already. Could start with the next in line so nice I don’t have a horrible infestation. I’ve plucked every damaged leaf I see off and put in ziplock bags to throw away. I don’t see mites or eggs on the undamaged leaves . That doesn’t mean they’re not hiding tho .


    Has anyone ever tried Citric Acid ? I’ve been reading on the marijua forums that The Amazing Dr Zymes kills them . Eggs and all. I end up finding lots of info on the MJ forums even though I don’t smoke 🤣. They deal with mites a lot . I feel for them . If you’re growing medical MJ , you are headed for a heartbreak of ya lose it to mites . But citric acid makes sense . Succs like acidity . You’re supposed to get the Dr Zymes to ph 6 and spray. Its expensive, but I have citric acid . I may try it on a few that I don’t care about. My infestat isn’t that bad . Under the scope , not every plant even has evidence of the mites . And I’m not seeing tons of eggs . Unless these don’t have perfect round eggs like I’ve seen examples of . I see shed skins and dead mites , plus live ones on about 1/3 of them . The others , I see nothing but dust . And occasional webbing . Old webbing . So odd that this has been going on over 2 months and they haven’t taken over . Probably cuz my house 🏡 a around 70 .


    @Nicole Puiia,


    i know your pain ! My champagne has those spots too . As a matter of fact , many of my imports have had those blasted spots . Makes me realize now that just maybe , I possibly tracked them in with a Korean order . Your pics definitely look like spider mites to me . Like @ewwmayo says , if they’re moving , ya got problems. If they’re not moving, maybe the seller sprayed n killed em . How many succs do ya have ? If you’re a fiend like me , I feel for ya . I have over 200 . If I didn’t have my sweet lil dog , I’d be blasting with Avid right now . I’m just scared that it will give off some sort of poisons in the air even after it dries . Paranoid, I know . But if I came home to my 11 year old dog in bad shape cuz of my plants , I’d never forgive myself. She’s been by my side at my worst times and always been a comfort . She’s kicked tears from my face and snuggled me to sleep for 11 years . And she hops around like a puppy when I get home . She lives for me . Crazy bout her if ya can’t tell. Thanks wish you luck however you treat your plants .


    Sorry for all the typos , y’all ! My phone hates this forum . It changes what I’ve typed and I get tired of correcting it . 🤣

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  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    I meant I’m sounding like a paranoid weenie ! Stupid auto correct ! I swear 🤣

  • ewwmayo
    last month

    @Jennifer Liebo Trust the manufacturer and only mix when it explicitly allows it in the product instructions. Avid does not have a huge amount of VOCs and just spray it outside with good airflow.

  • ewwmayo
    last month

    @Jennifer Liebo You can take a read of this publication on Abamectin toxicity from Cornell University's Extoxnet: Abamectin Toxicity Publication. I do not own a dog and not sure what your dog does with your plants, but it may be helpful regarding your concerns.

    Regarding VOCs, they evaporate off and doing the spraying outside should be no issue at all. VOCs are in many household products like cleaners, paints, air fresheners, etc. My respirator cartridges are rated for VOCs and all sorts of gasses too so when I do any spraying I know my mask is working properly because I do not smell anything at all.

    From my previous notes, Akari has a slight musty smell and Pylon with Floramite also had a slight smell after spraying. There is a re-entry interval of 12 hours which is intended to let any residues dry. Being able to leave plants outside for that entire duration is best.

    As for Citric acid, there is one published paper that mentions it was tested but I couldn't find anything else. I do not have access to the full publication so I couldn't see the details: Effect of Commercially Available Plant-Derived Essential Oil Products on Arthropod Pests. Phytotoxicity was tested and mentioned in the abstract but not for citric acid.

    In general, I do not follow or read marijuana forums anymore because the ratio of helpful information to misinformation is abysmal. Just a habit from my day job - personally I want to know how things work and why before I do them. On those forums there is a lot of "this worked for me!" with no scientific reason why it actually worked which is a bit frustrating.

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked ewwmayo
  • Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
    last month

    Stush , I got what you use at the dollar store. Thanks my friend. I’ll give it a shot.
    Wendy I found root mealy on one of my plants! It wasn’t growing so I pulled it from the pot and it was just a huge mass of mealy and no roots. Ugh. Thanks for the tip.
    Everyone else thank you for the info

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    @ewwmayo ,

    Ive tried to reply to ya a couple times and my phone locks up or eats my reply 🤣. Dunno why . Thanks for linking those articles. The one about Abamectin is comforting cuz they actually fed the dogs those doses . My dog won’t be eating any . The plants are mostly out of her reach . She keeps her nose to the floor crumb hunting a lot tho . So that means this floor better stay spotless. Ya know how leaves love to fall to the floor when ya have house plants . I’ve started spraying the Abamectin on my plants with my airbrush gun . It’s perfect for complete coverage and control . And it doesn’t produce a ton of drift . No more than my pump sprayer would . I’m spraying outside in my hazmat suit . Let them dry a bit . Then take em into my unoccupied trailer for further drying. Some have been over there 48 hours . I’ll bring those home and spray more today. Might be able to finish today since I’m on a roll .


    You are right . VOC’s are everywhere . My dog hung out with me while I painted inside our house and she’s fine . I’ll just be extra cautious . I know Abamectin is much more dangerous than paint . When it comes to my dog , she’s my angel . I’ll always be safe regarding her . She’s the coolest dog ever . 5.5 pounds . Miniature Chi Weenie that never barks unless someone is outside and she’s alerting us . She just lays around in her little bed and chills unless she’s crumb hunting or wanting held . Not a yapper like most tiny dogs . 🤣. So her messing with my plants is unlikely. She tried to bury a jerky treat under one that was laying on the floor waiting for a pot once . She tore it all to hell . I was shocked cuz she never goes near them . I was sad about the plant . But it was too damn cute to be mad at her 🤣.


    Im gonna try the citric acid as a general maintenance program down the road . Just to see if succs like acids the way some people have said . I’m also gonna get some green lacewin larvae and turn them loose around here . After the miticides have died down .


    found out exactly what’s in my trees . Kinda . Wish they’d listed exactly the species. I’m gonna ask for a copy of the lab report. The arborist said I’m the only one to ever send leaves to the lab . How odd . I’d think everyone would wanna know . I have thrips in the dogwood right at the front door . Eriophyid mites in the back porch box elder . Spider mites in the dog lot box elder . Leaf rollers and evidence of cattarpillars in my redbud . I’ll probably pay for injections . Just have to measure the trees . The arborist should have measured them the day she was here . Wasn‘t too impressed with her . I seemed to know as much as she did . Even stumped her a few times with my questions. Haha 🤣.

    Anyway . THANK YOU SO MUCH! You’re awesome!


    I agree about the MJ forums . I just read them to see what people are doing with pests . Not many people use true pesticide or miticide on succs . You’re the first person I found to mention it . It’s crazy the things they put on MJ for pests tho . Makes me glad I don’t smoke it . I have a friend who failed a drug test for benzodiazepines recently. He’s allowed to smoke pot . But he got in trouble for the benzos even though he didn’t take any . I suspect one of the MJ products he enjoyed was laced with them . He could be smoking Abamectin for all he knows too . Yikes ! Hope you have a great weekend. Big hugs ! Thank you for your knowledge 🤗

  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    @ewwmayo , forgot to tell ya ! I accidentally knocked a plant over that’s in my trailer a couple days ago. Noticed the stem was rotten . Looked under the microscope and saw a bunch of white bugs crawling around! They look like mites too . YUCK 🤢. I’ll post the video do you can look if nobody minds hearing me mutter the F word . I think I have a curse word free video. I’ll post that one right after this comment. They could be soil mites . Not sure . Thought it was a fungus. That is why I looked under the scope . These are tiny . I dunno if they’re eating the rot out of the stem or eating root aphids . Or if they are root aphids . If anyone can identify them , please lemme know . Lord ! Hope I don’t have root aphids on top of all this other nightmare . I immediately chopped this rotten part off . Then glued the cuts . It’s a fred Ives and I’d like to save it . No wonder it looked like crap . A couple next to it look like crap as well. Time to unpot and investigate. I’ll find the non bad word video and post it . Or take the sound off if both are laden with the F word 🤣

  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    Ok everyone! Here are the videos . I took the sound off to spare everyone my cursing . 🤣. Can anyone identify these ? They’re in the rotten stem of one of my Fred Ives . I’ve chopped that section off and put it in a ziplock and in the trash . Sorry for the wobbly moments . I was trying to focus better . I tried both my microscopes . The less wobbly one is the Pluggable one @ewwmayo suggested . Do you hate Mayo too ? Is that where your name came from ? Just curious 🤣. I don’t hate it exactly. But I hate how fast food places apply way too much. So I order all food without it . 🤣. Well . It won’t let me do a video. How odd . I’ll try still shots .


  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month



  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    I know those are hard to see . They look like soil mites to me . Wish I could post the videos. Dunno why I can’t . I think I’ve seen videos on here . Maybe it’s cuz I took the sound off the videos. Or maybe Houzz isn’t set up to post them . Anyway. I can try for clearer screenshots if needed . These are tiny ! I couldn’t see them moving til I looked through the scope . And I did that fast cuz I didn’t want em crawling off that stem and into other plants . Hope it’s just soil mites . Pics of root aphids look so different than these . Except the bean root aphid . I sure hope this isn’t why my crested Fred Ives all look so bleak next door . They had Mealybugs and ice kept them quarantined in my trailer next door for a couple months til I see zero signs of mealybug. The Acetamiprid seems to have worked . But now these nasty things ! One of the Fred’s did have a hole in a stem . It was an old hole and I saw nothing in it when it arrived . But I may chop that particular stem off . It’s a crest with a standard stem attached to the side . Has baby rosettes growing on that stem . That’s why I kept it . But I now suspect that’s where these came from . I’ll have to unpot the other 2 and check . Eew ! One of them had to root . Bet it’s made no progress cuz the roots are being eaten . This plant in the pics is a different Fred from a different seller . It had to root as well. So this was a shock . There was no dirt or roots on the plant for them to be hiding in .

  • Jennifer Liebo
    last month

    Here’s a link to the video of the root bugs . I put it on YouTube . Hopefully y’all can see it . They’re creepy . Dunno if they rotted the stem or if they’re cleaning up the rot . Thank you to anyone who takes the time to look 😊

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxjJtgzBcwA&feature=share

  • ewwmayo
    last month

    @Jennifer Liebo - Yes, I don't like mayo at all. =P If they send you the report, let us know what it says. I'm curious to see. The box elder mites are probably Eriophyes negundi. I'm not familiar with them whatsoever. Frustrating how you have spider mites in the trees and thrips at the front door!

    What do you mean by 'soil mite'? If you are thinking these could be Oribatid mites, I'm not so sure? Oribatids have a distinct round body with a pointy head and move around slowly. They have little legs coming out the front only. The ones I have had before are brown, although there are white ones too apparently. This website has really excellent images and description Chaos of Delight - Mites.

    From your video though... it looks like there more than 1 type of mite there. Top left there is a very big one with legs coming out of the sides. Is it a Tarsonemid mite? They definitely do not look like aphids to me. Did you take other videos? Try to get one so it's not so overexposed then you can see better detail (try turning down the LED).

    One thing is for sure, having the up-close video will get you much closer to the answer!

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked ewwmayo
  • SoCal Stewart (San Diego, Ca Zone 10A/10B)
    last month

    BLECH!!! Makes my scalp itch and my skin crawl just looking at them! Great video though. I wish I could unsee it. I’ll never be able to handle plants or soil without recalling this.

    HEE BEE GEE BEES!

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  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Fred Ives is probably easiest succulent to propagate - if you are having so much trouble with the plant, start new ones and get rid of the one with the bugs. The only thing is, I am not sure if it is crested one that has problems. I am sure you don't want to get rid of crest.

    I am very surprised that you are having problems with it. I have grown dozens of them - many from leaves, and some from cuttings. I never had any bugs on Fred Ives. 60 were grown from leaves for wedding favours: I had plenty of time to grow them, and wanted plants to be approx. same size. None was sick. I have large bowl full of FI; it is almost 3yrs old. Beside that, I have at least dozen pots with FI. I have also a crest, that had grown from a leaf, which is not very old.

    I wonder what kind of soil are you using? - maybe you already mentioned it, but I don't remember...I am just wondering why there are so many bugs in/on your plants.


    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
  • Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6
    last month

    Gee, I'm using soil from my compost pile. Alive with tiny bugs of all kind. So far I have had no problems but now I'm worried. I don't want to sterilize it due to wanting the microbes. Maybe good bugs eat the bad bugs?

  • ewwmayo
    last month

    Good question. I feel that there are many beneficial organisms and microbes that help take care of the pests and other problems. This is why I think it's easier growing outside (in general) than having an indoor collection.

    I asked a friend of mine who has a very keen interest in vermicomposting and he says for the most part you need to take care of the compost pile for pests too. Although, his focus is on the health of his worms rather than for potted plants like us. Based on what he told me, what pests are for him are different from us. However, issues like fungus/pH/etc. are shared concerns.

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  • Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
    last month
    last modified: 29 days ago

    Yeah but even outside I get bad hugs at the roots on many plants. They are just there and that’s it. Nothing kills them except both chemicals or beneficial ones. Usually systemic is what I need on roses and other perennials.

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  • Meyermike(Zone 6a Ma.)
    last month

    Bugs. lol

  • ewwmayo
    last month

    Was wondering how bad those hugs were!

  • Stush2049 Pitts. PA, zone 6
    last month

    Thanks for the funny ha ha Mike. Needed that today.

  • Jennifer Liebo
    29 days ago

    Hey y’all ! I’ll be back later to respond. I’m getting ready for my second round of mite spraying. I’ve been working 12 hour days and haven’t had a chance to get back to y’all . I appreciate your comments on my root bugs !


    @rina_Ontario,Canada 5a,


    i must agree with you that Fred Ives are the easiest ! They’re my FAVORITE succulent of all time . Especially the crests . Think I got the rot on that particular one cuz it was rooting and I accidentally watered it instead of just moistening the soil . I hope anyway . I beheaded it and cleaned it very well . Then inspected it under the scope . Then sprayed it just to be sure . Lol . Anyway, I’m just experimenting with it and gonna leave it as an outside plant .


    To address as it why I have so many bugs , I wish I knew . This property has ALWAYS been a haven for bad bugs . My Mamaw lived next door for over 40 years . She gardened a lot and used lots of pesticide. And across the road , there’s a huge field that is part of a farm . I’m sure they do lotsa pesticide too . Every time they mow the field , the bugs travel to me worse . I think I need to introduce some good bugs to the property. But I first want to do tree injections for the mites . I will research my timing and make sure it’s safe to let the good bugs loose here . Now I’m starting to see why many folks prefer to avoid some pesticides . I may have caused this to get worse by treating the trees and roses with a systemic product this spring . I was tired of seeing holes in all the leaves . I probably killed the few good bugs I had and the mites took over . But , as I said before, this property has been full of bad bugs since i was a child . I’m 43 . I remember all the plants being full of holes and bad bugs at 4 years old . That’s why Mamaw used Sevin Dust and likely napalm for all I know 🤣. Being a little kid , I didn’t pay attention. With her dementia, I’m sure she can’t answer my questions about what she used . I’ll be back later to reply to the rest of you ! Whoever said the video of my root bugs made their skin crawl , I feel your pain ! I’ve itched non stop since find these mites ! And I see those nasty things when I close my eyes . Even my dog and my BF are scratching 🤣. The dog has been bathed and treated for fleas , btw . She’s a pampered pooch always 🥰

  • Jennifer Liebo
    29 days ago

    @rina_Ontario,Canada 5a


    Here is my fave Fred Crest . I am in love with your Fred in the pic ! So stunning! Wish I could do outside plants . Sorry the pic ain’t the best . Gotta quit procrastinating and spray ! It was a hurried shot 🤣. Look how pink she is . I’m in LOVE . More like obsessed when it comes to Fred Crests .



  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    29 days ago

    Jennifer

    That is really good looking crest! And the color is very interesting. Since I grow mine outdoors during summer, it gets bit more brownish-purplish-pink. It was never pink as your plant is and I have been growing it for about 7-8 years. What kind of light are you using? Do you have a 'regular' (non crested) Fred Ives, and if so - is it also so pink? I looked thru all pics I have; pinkiest I found were these younglings growing from a stem left after beheading. That is indoors, under lights, during winter:

    I never used any pesticides, not even in my garden. I hope there are beneficials around, and try to p/u bugs if I see them (like japanese beetles, or hornworms...lucky enough to see some parasitic wasp eggs on it!). I only use rubbing alcohol on my potted plants if needed. I live in small town and there are many farms around, but not as close as you have. I am sure they also use some sprays - but what I can tell (should say smell :), there is lots of manure being used! :)

  • Jennifer Liebo
    15 days ago

    Rina ,

    Sorry for the super late reply! Been so upset and discouraged about my plants and these mites that I’ve just been coming gone from work and sleeping most evenings. Between me over cleansing them and the miticides , most of them look horrible. And I’m losing my first crested Fred Ives . It’s the one that started the obsession. It’s slowly shriveling up in the trunk area from the middle down . Not rot . Think it just hated the cleaning and the miticide. Anyway, to answer your question about my lights . I use Barrina pink( or red/blue ) mixed with the Barrina white grow lights for the one in the pic . On other shelves, I have T5 grow lights by Durolux. Love all of my lights . Seems I get amazing colors with both as long as I use gritty mix . I make my own using 3 parts Turface, 3 parts pumice and 2 parts coir . But I’m starting to rethink this mix . I’ve noticed that if I have to unpot a plant for any reason ( like knocking it over and losing most of the soil on the floor ) , the roots are super thin and unhealthy looking. I also get many air roots on lots of my plants . But others are fine . I’m wondering if I’m not being careful enough to use all the same particle size . I got tired of wasting so much pumice with all the sifting that I started just rinsing it and mixing it up . I sift it through a 1/8” sifter just to get the super tiny stuff out and rinse . Maybe it’s compacting and killing the roots . What soil do you use ? I’ve noticed coir fibers tangle in the roots too. Every soil you buy is full of gnats . That’s why I make my gritty mix . Not in love with Bonsai Jack gritty mix cuz the plants just can’t seem to stay hydrated in it . With 200 plants , I’m too busy to water that often ( more than weekly ) . And if I water more often in Bonsai Jack , they rot . To answer your other question. I have regular Fred Ives and they’re not quite as pink as the crests . As a matter of fact , most of my regular ones that I didn’t grow myself from leaves look horrid . Every one of them has arrived with Mealybugs . I’ve had to treat them so much that they’re all shriveled up and yuck looking . Acetamiprid killed the mealybugs and the eggs tho . But the eggs are still there . Can’t get them off . I’ve washed them a zillion times and they just stick there . I gotta find a new soil option and a new way to conquer Mealybugs . And I hope the mites stay gone . Gotta go inject my trees right now . I’ll be back . Didn’t mean to ignore y’all ! Just been really depressed on top of working super long days . I’m almost ready to give up on the succulents . Let the ones that wanna die go ahead and die and save the healthy ones . Then just stop buying them .

    If anyone has any input on the particle size on gritty mix , I’d love to hear it .

    @ewwmayo ,

    I found out that the little bugs in the rotten stem are good soil mites . They were cleaning up the decayed matter . So YAY ! I could not make another video cuz I freaked and tossed out that stem in a ziplock. It’s probably in the landfill now . Bet the bugs are happy Lil campers . I’ll go back and re read your replies . I’m sure I’m leaving out info you’d asked about. By the way , I got an ultrasonic food cleaner with ozone . It seems weak . But it had a HUGE tub . That’s the reason I picked it . Thought maybe if I washed some troubled plants , I could get the mealybugs off or any dead mites and eggs . Or use it to clean every new plant with . But it was so weak it barely removed dust . I didn’t use the ozone setting. It just has one . I know ozone is bad for plants . Anyway, ima send it back . But I may get one eventually. I love the idea of cleaning new plants with it or just tryna clean up ones with stubborn pests .

    Does anyone know a good alternative to isopropyl alcohol to clean up Mealybugs ? Alcohol hasn’t really worked great for me for bugs . But it does help remove the egg sacs and kills the bugs . Ya just have to do it constantly. But here in the US , we can’t get isopropyl anywhere . It’s so annoying! They keep us from getting alcohol cuz they need it on the front lines for Covid . But if they’d let us have alcohol, maybe the front lines wouldn’t be so hectic. It’s frustrating to not be able to get something that was once so abundant.

    Hope y’all are all doing well .!

    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked Jennifer Liebo
  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    15 days ago

    I also make my own mix. I use approx. equal amounts of perlite and grit, and small amount of turface. Sometimes, small amount of soil instead. I have used some cocopeat recently since I was gifted couple of 'bricks' of it. Small amount is about 10 -20% of total. I really do not measure, just mix it, but it is not more than 20% (usually less). JMO, but I think 3pts is too much - turface is quite water retaining.

    I sift or rinse perlite, and particles are probably between 3-6mm:

    I keep plants outside as long as possible, and they get rained on. If no rain, I water myself as needed, with water from rain barrels. I never purchased any mix. I have been using mix as described for a few years now (longer than 5...)

    My lights are some LED tubes, 4' long; I have set of T5HO, and still have some CFL light bulbs left (the spiral bulbs) so I am using them while they last.. I never used ultrasonic cleaner (never have even seen one, lol). For years, I use only rubbing alcohol. Not sure what I'll use when I run out of it - but luckily, so far didn't have to use it very often. Some plants get mealy bugs once in a while. IIRC, some ppl were using Windex and also mouthwash (Listerine). I should find old articles where these were mentioned...I am not sure if that is what was said. Few years ago, I purchased a bottle of insecticidal soap, just once.


    stupidlazydog CT zone 5b/6a thanked rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
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