Altorama, I really admire your creativity! The trellis panels look so unique with the springs from the couch! I think it’s a much better choice if we can space the roses and clematis side by side on fence panels, a wall or trellis. Obelisk is a risk for disease unless it’s diameter is substantial.

I've seen beautiful pictures of them growing together but truthfully, mine have never worked out. I guess you just have to get lucky and pick a compatable pair.

Seil, I think in reality the rose chosen needs to be a very vigorous variety and almost bulletproof against humidity and heat related diseases. But still, they each should have some respective space to reduce competition.

As others reported, I had a bad experience with this combination. I selected 'Polish Spirit', not understanding how vigorous it was. It completely overwhelmed and ended up killing its host rose.

I still like clematis, but I grow them separately on their own climbing supports.

And I agree - many clematis seem to need a generous amount of water.

Just lost my whole post. Polish Spirit osis extremely vigorous, here is a picture of it spilling over a fence after only a few years.

I do not use the rose as the sole support for any of my clematis, I just plant them close enough so a few stems can mingle with the rose, and only if the rose is very large which most of my ramblers are.

I once thought it was a good idea to plant a Honeysuckle with a rose, lol, fixed that real quick.

Alida

A

ETA-maybe that was Warsaw Nike...

Beautiful arrangement Altorama! I like the contrast of your two vases! I can see how huge the clematis can get now.

Well, rabbits made the decision for me. This morning I woke up seeing the clematis got “chopped off” towards the base...straight cut. Only the chopper teeth creatures can do such a clean job LOL

Oh that sucks zzg, what clematis is it?

Ville de Lyon. It had several buds on it. I was hoping to remove it from the obelisk after it finished blooming of first round...

Oh that's too bad, man that would make me mad!

Oh, does that ever look familiar. What makes me so frustrated is that they'll cut something down and won't eat it; the plant pieces just lie there uselessly.

Haha, that’s when a buffet is offered... The other day I just got my first big blooms of Carding Mill, all three disappeared the next day...no petals no stems can be found anywhere.

I grow roses with clematis, but give each their own structure and let them mingle as they will. I have found the giving each root space and foliage space works well for me. I also tend to choose my roses based on disease resistance and hardiness with the actual flowers the last thing I look at. I do grow clematis on shrubs that have stouter structure and fewer disease issues than roses, such as Donald Wyman lilac (which doesn’t sucker like common lilacs), Quickfire Hydrangea paniculata, and Fothergilla.

Thank you NHbabs for your photos. I have one Quickfire (tree form) Paniculata and I was just thinking if I can get a short clematis to climb the other day! :) Sometimes I like to sit in the garden and just stare at certain plants for hours to generate “crazy” ideas LOL It’s perfect your photo demonstrated how it looks (Your hydrangea is a shrub form?) Deep purple and white paired beautifully together. How tall is your Quickfire and Lilac May I ask? Are they placed in the back of the beds?

QF is in the middle of the bed and visible from one side. It is a huge bed (60’x15’) with plants that tend to get large, the one pictured in my cover photo, though you don’t see QF in that picture. QF is almost 10 years old and is about 8’ tall, a shrub form. The lilac is at the end of a bed that wraps around a tall building and is about 12’ tall. The Fothergilla are down the center of a smaller bed and are surrounded by perennials and clematis. That bed is only about 4’ tall at its highest so the clematis climb low trellises and then ramble across the top of the Fothergilla.

I also select mostly BS resistant roses so I have not noticed the BS is worse with a clem.

I think I will have to move some of my clem because I did not plant 1ft away from rose.

Totoro before you move them what are the clematis you are talking about? And when did you plant them?

I wish I could say I planned this but I didn't. I know the clematis is Huldine but the rose I'm not sure, it could be Mr. Lincoln.

Camera girl, it worked out beautifully. Are they against a wall or free standing with support? How old are they?

Could there be any better argument that clematis is a great companion plant for roses!! Just beautiful. I don't have Huldine but have heard it's one of the best whites.

Hi zzg, they are free standing with support. The rose was there when we moved in (2002) and Huldine is a couple of years old. I have several Huldines in the yard - one of the best clemmies to have. Here is Juuli with knockout rose & BC with Mr. Lincoln.

One thing to notice about cameragirl’s gorgeous plantings is how much space she has allowed for her clematis-rose combos. They aren’t both trying to grow within a narrow obelisk and so have space to mingle.

Hi ZZG, no we don't spray for black spots.

Altorama, last year i planted a young Fleuri clematis 6 in from a 2 year old Bolero (winning out) . Also Sapphire indigo 8" from Wildeve (seems Wildeve is losing) . I think they are both 3 years old. Perle D'Azure 6 in from Blue Girl bare root (equal match so far).

WOH on an obelisk and Rooguchi clem

Totoro, your WOH + Rooguchi combo looks great! I like the contrast of color. Does WOH nod all the time?

Its interesting to see your report of pairing results. It seems a lot of time the rose + clematis combo is a trial and error test. You don’t really know who’s gonna prevail unless you plant them together to test out.

I find it interesting that all I hear on these rose forums is prune the roses so they grow....etc....etc yet I hear nothing about pruning the clematis. Hmmmm, maybe if some of the branches of the clematis were pruned it wouldn't take over. Something to consider folks...

Charles de Mills and Romantika have been growing together for 3 years. Charles was a year old when I planted the Clem. Romantika is cut back severely every year and CDM receives minimal pruning. This year both have moved into the lilies planted on the opposite side of the fence, with CDM sending out suckers.

Front

Front

Opposite side of the fence.

Another shot of CDM joining with Romantika to move in on the lilies.

Toolbelt68, how one prunes a clematis depends on the type. So one like Romantica is summer blooming and does well when hard pruned. Others that bloom earliest in spring do best with little pruning while midspring bloomers do best with light pruning after bloom, though my midspring bloomers are typically hard pruned by Mom Nature and it doesn’t hurt them, only delays bloom a bit. Clematis pruning is aimed towards maximum bloom rather than size. IME, Clematis regrow fast enough that pruning for size doesn’t work. Instead one has to research the size the clematis wants to be and choose a rose or other shrub size so neither will over-run the other. That is likely why there isn’t much discussion of pruning of clematis since they come with a label that tells you the type of pruning that will give you the best bloom. I have clematis that range in size from a foot to 15’.

All I'm saying is that if you have a rose covered with vines then you have too many vines. Cut some of the vine branches out leaving just enough to have their flowers showing in the rose bush. If 10 vine branches blanket the rose, cut out 5, if still too many, cut out some more. Simple as that. The couple remaining will grow new branches that can be cut out if they start to blanket the rose. One long vine branch with flowers on it will really set your rose off. Try it. It has nothing to do with the type.

It is far easier to choose an appropriately sized clematis that won’t blanket the rose than constantly cutting back a clematis that wants to be too large for the particular rose. Right plant right place.

I agree. But for some folks who don't want to go to the trouble of obtaining a PHD in clematis's, clipping a few branches now and then is a whole lot easier. Otherwise why even have this forum if everyone is as smart as .......

Here is my favorite resource for looking up info about specific clematis, Clematis on the Web. Just do a search for a clematis the size you want, or look up one you are considering to find out its size.

http://www.clematis.hull.ac.uk/new-clemlistsearch.cfm

and I am not trying to present as smart, just bone idle. I don’t like pruning.

Lets try using what you are saying. Let's say I have a climber that goes up 8 feet then over about 4 feet onto a trellis over a driveway. I want a blue flowered clematis that will not blanket the climber. It should only have flowers showing every few feet. Which one would you recommend? Remember I want the climber to be the dominate one showing, not buried under a bunch of clematis leaves etc.

Deborah, WOW!!! I love your combo.

Totoro, beautiful combo too!

Thankos! Yes, I believe WOH always nods.

For me, the concern is the root competition not the clematis covering the rose, but for the OP I suppose cutting out extra vines would work though it is labor intensive.

Thanks, cameragirl. I look forward to it every spring. I cut Romantika back after blooming and often get some rebloom. CDM gets his suckers cut in the spring and fall. Unfortunately I can’t convince any of my local gardening friends to plant a CDM sucker.

totoro, I don’t hesitate to cut back individual Clematis stems that are not growing where I want. A vigorous Clematis is not bothered by it, although it can be challenging to trace back the stem in question.

Zzg, I was wrong. Not all the WOH blooms nod.

Bolero and Fleuri clem

Happy ending here: the nature (AKA Mr Rabbit) took half of the clematis down, cooperated with human intervention (sprayed one application of fungicide), the Rose + Clematis Combo survived and both are happy, at least, for now :-)

It‘s a good learning experience how it worked out.

Oh, very very pretty! Love that color combo.

Totoro, I really like the look of fleuri! Bolero, of course, looks good with anything.

Zzg, your yard is so beautiful! Love all the mature trees. I envy how much space you have. Space = more roses!

Dillybeansown, thank you! The rose foliage cleared up after only one application of fungicide. I debated over the usage of chemicals for a long time (as I have a no spray garden) and decided to give the rose a little help.

Totoro, thank you! Some of those pine trees are over 80 years old. I had to have one cut down last year that was unfortunately hit by lightening and dying. Man it was a week job for a crew of 6. I believe I have maxed out on roses - all the beds are full as of today :(

Zzg, you could always enlarge existing beds or make new beds! ;)

Another clematis idea is to have spreading, non climbing types ramble through the feet of roses. Saphire indigo is a good one.

Per d'Azure clem with First Crush and Blue Girl.

Now that Buff Beauty is finished, FC does not look bad with BG.

Giselle just missing Heritage bloom time, but catching the last of Teasing Gerorgia

Rhapsody clematis started to bloom with Wollerton Old Hall and TG. Bells of Rooguchi last a long time too. Rhapsody is really more blue in the center stripe, but difficult to photograph correctly.