Tile was on top of cement board to those asking about prep

An installer whose default is vertical stacked? Houzz is giving me heartburn this weekend.

How did you pay for this job? A deposit, full up front?
Have you paid after you saw the job he has done?
You may not have any recourse for the direction of the tile, but the workmanship is another issue.
Did you get references, look at any of this persons work?
This is not a professional job.
If you have these issues fixed, I wouldn’t trust the current installer to do it. He didn’t do it right the first time, so can’t expect it to be done right the second.

I am not a pro but I am pretty sure that cement board is not waterproof and there needs to be additional waterproof OVER the cement board and that ties in with the water proofing of the shower floor.

Did they perform a 24 hour flood test? Is the shower floor sloped properly?

I recently finished a gut remodel including two bathrooms and learned enough from these forums to be a bit terrified and very cautious about how my shower was going to be built. I still had to ultimately trust in the professionalism of the people my designer and GC hired and their oversight but at least this forum gave me the ability to ask semi-intelligent questions so that I knew that they were applying a Redguard system - about flood tests - about sloping shower floors - about how water proofing seams had to meet and I tried to take pictures even though I was living off site. Fingers crossed - the shower floor is dry (drains) and I haven't landed in the floor below me :-).

ETA - And intended for people who come to this thread later on and perhaps the OP if the shower needs to be done over, all of the tile layers had diagrams/pictures showing exactly how the tile was going to be laid down to the placement of each tile. These were taped to the walls of the bathrooms and kitchen so no one could claim they had missed seeing them. One other nightmare I learned from this forum is that poor tile layers don't bother to cull through tiles where variation is part of the aesthetic so that instead of having variegated marble tiles scattered beautifully around, they will clump the colors together. I have basketweave Calacatta marble tile floors on bathroom and shower floors and so there are brown and gray and cream tiles and I shudder to think of what it would look like if they had installed all of the gray in one area of the floor :-).

I think it’s pretty bizarre to lay a tile with that aspect ratio vertically. I’m not an installer or pro but id assume horizontal immediately. It looks very bad In my opinion. I’m sorry you are going through this!

If he had laid them horizontally, you would have had even more awkward slivers, since it appears that your shower is just a bit wider than the tile. It‘s not a good choice of material here, and a skilled installer would have told you that. An expensive lesson indeed, but perhaps a lucky one, since it appears there is no waterproofing in this shower. Ripping it out now will cost less than ripping out a moldy mess that’s been hidden from view. Good luck.

It's a tear-out anyway. No waterproofing and not even taped corners.

Geez, poor tile installer. He was hired for a job, finished it, and now you want to be involved in the process? Did you go over anything with him? How the shower was being built, waterproofing, pattern layout of tile? Yes, probably not a pro at his job, but he did what you asked, tiled a shower. Sorry, this is on you, quit looking for a way to relinquish your responsibility. Someone has to fill Sophie’s shoes. sigh

OP, ask the installer what materials and methods he used for the waterproofing.

Not a pro here. There are several acceptable methods for waterproofing a shower; there's not just one way, but the tile pro is supposed to adhere to industry standards and manufacture's instructions. Ask him what he used and how it was installed. One thing I know is whatever boards are used (cement, hydroban, etc.) they need to be attached a certain way with the appropriate fasteners, taped and sealed, so that they don't move and crack your tile as your house breaths. Floor has to slope to drain. There are different ways and materials to achieve that. Ask him what he did.

No waterproofing...proof the installer isn't a Pro. The whole thing is a tear out and do over. If you had spent thirty minutes reading shower advice (using the search bar) this could have been prevented.

Note: "cement board" will not disintegrate when immersed in water, HOWEVER, it will allow water to pass through it. This "capillary action" will cause wood studs to rot and mold to grow behind it.

That is so disappointing, I'm so sorry. Very strange that the tiler didn't ask you prior to. I can see how you would have assumed it was going to be laid horizontally, since the shower step tiles were laid horizontal. Still, that should have been a detailed conversation.

I will say that vertical stacked shower tiles is done frequently and lends itself to be a much more modern design. Like, this:

Generally, with the size and movement of your tile, when they are laid vertically the tiles are still staggered, like this:

Like mentioned, he is not a professional for all the reasons other have listed above. Unfortunately, it seems you are left with the bill since it was never discussed or put into writing prior to and then he went against your wishes. Seems like a lot of expensive assumptions were made here. I would weigh whether or not the additional $3k is worth a total redo with another more experienced tiler. I would lean towards yes, but it's not my money.

At the very least I would leave as many bad reviews as possible online/google/etc. so others will avoid hiring him.

Sorry you're experiencing this aggravation. I had a tile job ripped out immediately after installation many years ago, and I still remember the frustration. Glad I did it, though, because I'm sure that looking at the problem areas would have enraged me daily for eternity. In your case, that extra line of grout in the inner corner looks like a nightmare. It's hard enough to keep just one corner grout line clean.

A real tile professional would be about double your 3K expense for your ”unhandy guy”. Live and learn. Now you get to pay the 6K+ a 2K tearout and disposal, plus the wall prep that needed to happen, and all on top off the 3K for the jackleg.

Thanks everyone. I was thinking it was me being picky. I should have firmed up the direction of the tile. I’ve been involved and around every day. This happened to be the one day I didn’t stop by until later. Like many have said it’s an expensive lesson learned. Thanks again for your input.

Janet, 8k in labor for an approx. 3X5 shower (walls and pan) is the going rate for a Pro tiler...MUCH more in certain urban areas (LA, Boston, NYC, San Francisco, Seattle).

I would have flipped my lid if a tiler had installed the tile vertically like that without asking first. Has the person never seen rectangular tile before?! I appreciate this post because I'm having my shower tiled next month and I will definitely make sure the tiler and I are on the same page.

This isn't Michael's fault for not specifying how the tile is to be installed! Boy, when this shower leaks, the direction of the tile is the least concern. It is only one bit of evidence of how bad the contractor is. The installer is a hack. He has to demo it, and explain how he's going to do the whole thing over again according to code. Waterproof!!!! This is in your HOUSE, and could leak! I would hold his feet to the fire. Is he licensed?

I would contact the contractor's licensing board.

I agree with Dragonfly. You are not responsible.

However your shower is a complete tear out. Not because the tile was laid wrong but because you have no waterproofing!

Get it fixed properly with it waterproofed.

Oh my gosh. There are 2 botched no-waterproofing tile disaster threads going at once right now.

Have a sit down meeting with the contractor. Before meeting, read up on proper waterproofing. Have the meeting Follow what Dragonfly said Take notes and document meeting!

I just typed this on the other thread.....

In my state, you have to give the contractor 1 chance to fix things before firing them (or they can sue you and will probably win). In my state there are 3 main things you have to do: 1) give a chance to fix; 2) make work site available; 3) don't interfere with the work.

Check the construction laws in your state. If you don't have time to check before your meeting, just to be safe, give him a chance to fix things. After he fails again you can fire him. Or maybe he'll just quit. Document your meeting like this (believe me, the judge took this eveidence very seriously, and it's a big reason why we got 2x our money back). Document like this:

-- Have your meeting, take notes, like I said above.

-- If he quits, document that in an email saying something like this: "Dear so and so, Thank you for meeting with us yesterday to discuss how you propose fixing the waterproofing and tiling problems in our shower. We were hoping you would choose to proceed with the repairs and continue the project. We're disappointed that you decided to quit the project instead of attempting to remedy the situtation. Good luck in your future endeavors. Sincerely so and so." Then send a demand letter asking for a refund, saying something like this: "Dear so and so. We were hoping you would choose to continue our bathroom remodeling project. Instead, since you have decided to quit, you have breached the contract between your company and ourselves. Please refund us in the amount of $xxx, which is the amount of deposit and draw money that we have paid you so far. In addition, we now have to re-purchase tile and other materials in the amount of $xxx. The total refund we are requesting is $xxx. Sincerely, so and so." (make a copy, send it certified, return receipt and keep the receipt that comes back to you).

-- If he says he will attempt to fix it, let him. Document that agreement in an email saying something like: "Dear so and so, Thank you for meeting with us yesterday to discuss how you propose fixing the waterproofing problems in our shower. We were pleased that you decided to do x, y, z as an attempt to fix the waterproofing and tiling problems. We look forward to proceeding with the project. See you on Thursday at 8. Sincerely, so and so"

-- Then after he fails again and it's still a hot mess, document that with an email saying something like this: ""Dear so and so, Thank you trying to fix the waterproofing and tiling problems in our shower project, as we agreed you would do at out July 8th meeting. We appreciate your attempt to fix the problems your first work crew created. Unfortunately, the shower is still not waterproofed properly. Since this was your second attempt, we have lost confidence that your work crew is capable of building our shower to industry standards and manufacturer's instructions. We have decided to go in a different direction, and hire a new contractor to proceed with the project. Our contract with you is terminated. Good luck in your future endeavors. Sincerely so and so."

Then send a demand letter asking for a refund, saying something like this: "Dear so and so. We were hoping you would able to fix the waterproofing and tiling problems in our shower. Since both of your attempts failed, we have to hire a new contractor. Please refund us in the amount of $xxx, which is the amount of deposit and draw money that we have paid you so far. In addition, we now have to re-purchase tile and other materials in the amount of $xxx. The total refund we are requesting is $xxx. Sincerely, so and so." (make a copy, send it certified, return receipt and keep the receipt that comes back to you).

Save any and all email or text replies you receive.

Good luck with you meeting.

There are multiple methods to properly install a shower. I just want to caution everyone in the waterproofing posse to be careful with advice as some will tout a specific method (or look for it) and there are several. Take for example, the topical liquid (like red guard). Not even a favorite of most experienced Pros. But no, proper waterproofing, which is only ONE aspect of a proper shower build, was not done here. And yes, the tile was not laid correctly, even if the pattern was correct. (No slivers allowed).

As a homeowner I agree that we should never tell a contractor what to choose specifically such as “I demand you use the Wedi (it Kerdi or Hydronan boards, etc) system.” That’s just asking for trouble and it’s disrespectful to the professional It helps if the homeowner has a least some knowledge of the process so they are not asking dumb questions about every little thing. I saved my questions for big important things such as “Can you explain why these huge tiles on my shower ceiling are never going to fall down on my head?”

OP, What happened to me is somewhat different, but read this to see why documentation is soooo important. My GC quit, then sued me, saying we breached the contract because I asked them to fix the wrong waterproofing (like forcing them to quit?). Document everything. We didn’t sue anybody, just figured we lost that money forever, but when quit-GC sued us, we had to respond and we won because of documentation.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5725013/what-to-do-when-a-project-goes-completely-south

It's all about hiring correctly in the first place, and yes, it helps to be informed to ask good questions. A real pro has no problem explaining a process and asking the homeowner the appropriate questions and involving them in design.

does anyone know how i can find out what the construction laws are in texas? it seems like a free for all here. i hope i'm wrong though.

I have them somewhere on my computer. But I have to find them. Give me a bit and I'll post. If you've got an issue going on that you are trying to resolve, probably best to start a new post. .

Texas Property Code, Title 4, Chapter 27. I'm not a lawyer, but I had to read practically the whole property code to win against my quit-GC who sued me.

You can download it from the law library. https://www.sll.texas.gov/about-us/about-the-library/

You can call them and the librarian will help you find it, or they can email the whole property code to you.

@AJCN, thank you!

Lisa, probably that is true, but I am still wanting to hear from the OP on how the meeting went with the contractor. So, OP, if you are still there, I hope your meeting went well. Let us know what he said about the waterproofing.

Let us know op

Back to the OP's problem!!!

Agreed. I would like to return to the OPs situation if he'll have us.

Thank you to everyone who productively contributed to this post. It was my goal to gather some opinions and also see if there was a resolution. It was my first time here after landing on the site while looking for a resolution and ideas. I’m disappointed that this post went the way it did as you scroll through. That was not the intent or goal. I did find out that waterproofing and materials were used in addition to the cement board. Nice the project is completed I’ll post pictures as an update which some have requested.
Thanks everyone and I hope you have a great day.

MM , very professional. I'm sure you learned the hard way, like I have many times, more than you ever wanted to know about tile. The sad part for the forum is the posters causing the problems refuse to "learn" anything and these type of DD's threads just keep happening. Good luck and post the pics.

Ok great news. The tile wound up looking great and once the grout was completed I’m very happy. Once all the fixtures are in I will post pictures. I’m relieved and grateful for all the advice and info. Please stop with the back and forth. I’d really appreciate it.

Thanks everyone!!!!! Phew

Michael, so glad you're happy with how it turned out! We deliberately oriented our tile vertically and we love it too.

What great news! So happy everything turned out in your favor. I do apologize for my terse comment, but with this forum, I hope that people will turn to it to find answers before signing on to do a remodel/renovation or research the process that they are hiring someone to do. There is good advice from pros and people who have gone through the process. Sometimes we “minions” get caught up in the fray. I guess your posting pushed a button with me, another possible bad bathroom tile job. I do apologize. So happy that everything turned out good and to your satisfaction.

Did they leave the tile as it was or redo it?

Janet House: Just read the thread; it's in there.

Left the tile like this. Once the grout was in it looked spectacular. I’ll have finished pictures up in about a week

Just give it two years of leaking into the stud cavity.... The smell will be horrific. Because if it was‘t t redone, there is no possible way for that to not occur. He didn’t even tape the corners for goodnesssake!

Hi Green. Upon investigation the proper waterproofing including taping was done. I believe I mentioned that earlier on the thread.

Was a water test done? I apologize if it was and I missed ,that info. I’m not a shower or tile installer but I went on advice here. We did use a Schluter system, per the suggestion of our contractor, but I also did my own research, using info and photos found here, the John Bridge forum and elsewhere, and took photos at the end of each day...after workers were off site. If I’d wondered about potential issues had , I’d have asked questions.

Perhaps a water test was conducted and my post is irrelevant. It’s just that having tile that looks good doesn’t mean the shower was waterproofed- and that’s vital. I’d have been in possible trouble without input here.

My original 1965 tub surround was gutted recently. It was cement board with tile on top. There was no membrane or extra waterproofing. The studs did have some water damage (but no mold) around the tub and shower faucet, but it was not too bad at all for 55 yrs of showers and baths.

AJCN thank you for the link to your comprehensive write-up!

Michael Morley - I was so excited to see this thread. We just picked out the same exact tile (I recognized the stock photo) for a shower in our vacation condoTo be installed in sep/oct. We did leave instructions on the sample “lay in brick pattern” because we will not be present for any of the installation. It’s beautiful tile. Please post a picture of your finished shower!

Any new photos of the finished tile yet?

Update. Sorry it took so long to post. We are happy with the results. Once the grout was finished and the glass installed it all came together nicely

It turned out beautifully!

We are very happy.

Beautiful job . We are having the same tile installed next month .

Do you think that this tile will go with floor tile that has grey in it?