Vinyl is cheap ... $150 a box (200 sq ft) $.75/sq ft, hardie plank HZx in my area .79/sq ft of course you also need a trim, shadow boards, corners and channels. I found some decent installers can install either for less than materials above.

It should be obvious that someone proposing a Midern Architecture house in a traditional neighborhood, especially one with CC&Rs as described, is taking on an uphill situation.

And thinking that one can outwit or spite them with a design choice is exactly the way to make one's life there miserable for as long as one may be resident in the community.

It seems so clear and so simple to work with the neighbors to find a majority-supported solution.

..talk about alienating neighbors and lowering property values...

The homeowners' only direction to their architects on the Corten steel award-winning home: "we wanted a house that people had to acknowledge."

worthy, I love that home. people would lose their minds over here if that went up in this area.

one of the most well known and award winning architects in Dallas did something like that and here is how the neighbors responded

"But the neighbors saw it differently. The rising, barn-like forms were lampooned in no time. “People across the street put signs in their yards that said ‘barnyard’ with a big arrow; other signs had a donkey or a chicken,” Russell recalls. Protesters notwithstanding, the architectural plans disappeared from the jobsite four times. “The contractor felt like it was developers, but it may even have been other architects who couldn’t believe the house was that long and narrow,” Russell says. "

https://www.residentialdesignmagazine.com/17148/case-study-casa-linder-by-buchanan-architecture/

another controversial house , built using components that are found on warehouses. this one got a Dallas aia award

" Detractors find the lack of adornment (especially in a neighborhood proud of its flourishes) unnerving. To wit, on the dusky evening of our photo shoot, the driver of a passing Jeep Grand Cherokee shouted out his own terse critique: “The house sucks!” "

https://www.dallasnews.com/life/life/2011/10/05/that-square-white-house-on-mockingbird-lane-in-dallas

That's a tough one - what if I go option one and they say absolutely not! ?

Then you go with vinyl or hardie.

maybe I'll just simplify my life and go with vinyl from the get go. they'll hate it. it'll really devalues the neighborhood, but I followed the rules

If you're willing to go with vinyl, then there's no reason not to try making your case for what you want. You have a solid backup plan if they don't agree. I would make sure to casually mention, when chatting with them, that you'll likely go with vinyl if they don't agree to the change. If you can do it without making it sound like a threat, that is. It has to be casually informing them of your fallback plan. Or you could include it in whatever written material you put together to make your case.

I'm curious - have you met the neighbors? I might start there before anything else. It really seems like you're going into this with a chip on your shoulder about them, planning to be combative. Why not *try* to like them and have a good relationship?

Here's the latest infill home from what local blogs call the hippest young architectural firm in Toronto, RZLBD. (Note the "I don't need no damn architects" homes on either side.)

"Mask House"', Toronto. 2019, arch: RZLBD

Another couple interesting downtown Toronto infills:

arch. Nima Javadi

83a Marlborough Place, Toronto. arch. Drew Mandel, Toronto.

Structural Copper House, 144 Strachan Ave., Tor. arch. Nima Javadi

I love the Casa Linder house. I see from the article that the neighbors came around, too.

Well, I live in an HOA and I'm on the board and the architectural review committee. When I went looking to buy a lot in different developments, the first thing I did was ask if there are CC&Rs and could I have a copy and read them. I determined that I couldn't live with the CC&Rs of two of the developments, so I bought in the third which had CC&Rs that I could handle. I would never think to go against the CC&Rs because I bought in the development fully aware of what I was getting into. I didn't have to buy there, I made that choice.

Being on the HOA board, every month we have someone come in complaining about the CC&Rs and wanting to build something that doesn't conform. It's very annoying because why would you buy some place that has rules and then you decide you don't want to follow them?

Some people even insist they didn't know that there were CC&Rs and that this was a planned development which, if you saw my neighborhood, would know that's impossible. We always tell people that if they would like to propose a change to the CC&Rs, go for it, but know that you will need a 2/3rd majority vote (which would almost be impossible to get).

We've had two property owners blatantly build against the CC&Rs. The only thing the board can do is levy a monthly fine which the homeowners pay because they think it's worth it to build what they want. Liens are eventually placed on the property which doesn't mean much until they go to sell. So these two got what they want, but I will say they are pariahs of the neighborhood and due to their selfishness have caused an unnecessary amount of ill-will and grief for the neighborhood as well as the board members.

If I were you and you don't want to conform to the CC&Rs and wish to cause a ruckus in the neighborhood, then do everyone a favor and buy another lot somewhere else.

barncatz

"I love the Casa Linder house. I see from the article that the neighbors came around, too."

I like it too! Can you imagine what kind of madness would ensue if someone posted that design on here? 100 ft long hallway, living spaces not facing south.etc. it would be an epic free for all

" I'm curious - have you met the neighbors? I might start there before anything else. It really seems like you're going into this with a chip on your shoulder about them, planning to be combative. Why not *try* to like them and have a good relationship?"

I like your plan of proposing plan a and see if they allow it, and if not just go with hardie or vinyl. Im not married to Steel. I like it because of its durability but vinyl has a lot of the same characteristics and we have that on our current house and like it just that I think steel looks better.

I actually really like my neighbors. Ive met three of the six and they are all very cool. I hope that doesnt change when they see what Im building.

I love the layout of the Casa Linder house, especially for its site. Me, I’d want glass along the long hall because I love that kind of thing, but it depends how close the next-door

neighbors are, and they probably have a second story window that‘d Be looking right down into the hall. Not cool when I’m padding out to the laundry looking for my clean jammies.

There‘s another Buchanan house in Dallas, I think on San Jacinto, that is shiny steel, not rusted, but will it stay so pristine? It‘s a gorgeous house.

You know, interesting houses are always illustrated in isolation. Many houses in my area that have been so featured look great in the photos, but when I drive by them all the time and see how the angles of the photos were carefully set up to make it look like the house is on a vast prairie when it’s really only 1/4 acre parcel in a “prairie preserve neighborhood”, or the very modern and cool Tigerman Curry in a, to be honest, slightly grubby neighborhood of 40s and 50s houses, well, it changes my perspective. Ive been trying to find a picture of the Casa Linder house in its neighborhood, or a map location. Can you point me to it?

There are architects who believe in designing in original ways, but also in ways sympathetic to the site and locale.

And there are architects who strive for individualistic designs which are simply in their "signature" style and could care less about the site and locale.

Choose wisely.

" There‘s another Buchanan house in Dallas, I think on San Jacinto, that is shiny steel, not rusted, but will it stay so pristine? It‘s a gorgeous house."

is this the one you mean?

https://www.dezeen.com/2018/09/28/rio-vista-residence-buchanan-architecture-dallas-texas/

" Ive been trying to find a picture of the Casa Linder house in its neighborhood, or a map location. Can you point me to it?"

"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" is always a good model to live by.

Can I ask why you chose to live in a neighborhood with CC&R's when I'm sure you could've purchased a tract of land somewhere in your locale that doesn't have to conform to neighborhood standards? I would be pretty p!$$ed if my neighbor, who knew or should've known the rules, came in and planned to blatantly disregard them. People often buy in neighborhoods because of the security of knowing that there are rules in place that will help eliminate any devaluing of their home by rogue builders/homeowners with a "to heck with the rest of you" attitude.

Personally, I think YOU'D be much happier without having to deal with any neighbors, rules, litigation, etc. and be able to build the house that YOU want to build.

shead, the lot was almost perfect with dozens of mature trees and still clear space to build. good soil for the foundation etc.

it also had the least amount of restrictions within a good driving distance to our jobs.

also, there was/is no HOA, I didnt have to use a specific builder etc.

also, when we built I wasnt looking at metal siding.

I think the plan as proposed by Kristin is what I will do: Try to talk to the neighbors and see if they will allow it, if not I will put up vinyl there is no harm done. Vinyl is allowed so I will be completely within the rules.

i have ruled out doing metal unless I can get a quorum but the right thing to do would be to involve them in the process.

Somebody's accessing my files of favourites! Considered and rejected as our Committee of Adjustment would reject it out-of-hand.

Can't imagine anyone being upset over this project.

It's one of the best proportioned bulk storage facilities that I have see. The little blue steps and handrail are a cute touch.

I'm curious - have you met the neighbors? I might start there before anything else. It really seems like you're going into this with a chip on your shoulder about them, planning to be combative.

How is that any different than how DE acts on this forum?

D E, I can't tell from your comments if your primary goal is to tick off the neighbors and end up in court or build the house you want. Once you are clear on that, the smartest path seems obvious.

It's one of the best proportioned bulk storage facilities

Hearing about the latest Texas mass murder today, I'm wondering why anyone would want any non-ballistic streetside glass on a home.

This is standard for the front of Texas houses:

"Anything different, new or (gasp!) larger than the pre-existing homes, will be the subject of spite, envy and jealousy dressed up as concern for standards and community."

Not entirely sure I agree with this. Our street is undergoing redevelopment (for about the third time) so there's a mix of housing already - 20s clapboard cottages, 60s single story brick houses, and more contemporary styled one and two story houses built in the last five years. Sizes range from about 1200 to about 2600 sq ft. A local builder bought one of the clapboards on a largish lot, tore it down and is about halfway through constructing an ultra contemporary 6000 sq ft home, well over twice the size of the rest of us huddled nearby. The house goes right up to the property line on 3 sides.There hasn't been a murmur of dissent.

Why not? Because the builder and his wife (who's his office manager) have chatted with all the neighbors about what they're doing (it's their own house), because they're running a relatively civilised site, and because they've observed an informal protocol to only build single story on this particular side of the street. The house will be much bigger than any of ours, but it won't loom over us, and its styling and materials will fit well with the more contemporary ones (like mine) already here.

In other words, in spite of its size, the new house will "fit in" with the housing around it rather than stick out like a sore thumb, as some of the examples above do. The builder will have what he wants, and the neighborhood has a build that will do nothing to damage property values. Win-win. Common sense, too.

DE's posting doesn't make sense...or at least she's left out some needed information.

Debbie says that there are existing CC&Rs for her neighborhood, where she has property, but there's no HOA. In my experience, that's odd--I'm used to a development which starts with a developer creating and administering the initial CC&Rs, but turning them over to a HOA, administered by the home owners when there is a 50%-level ownership by individul home owners.

There may well be other forms of creating and administering CC&Rs, but simply having functional CC&Rs with no form of administration or governance seems odd to me.

For the record, I chair the Architectural Committee of our development's HOA, turned over to our home owners when the development passed 50% of the homes were sold to individual owners. We elect our HOA leadership, and are responsible for the CC&Rs and their revisions, annual budget assessment and all exterior property management. In other words, a rather standard HOA.

I tell my fellow residents that it's important that we respect and maintain our CC&Rs as the means to: 1) Maintain the overall quality and appeal of the development which brought us each to the development in the first place; and 2) Maintain and manage the property values of our development over time.

It's also important to note that CC&Rs can certainly be changed over time. They contain provisions describing how changes are to be made.

Fortunately, we have a small development where everyone knows everyone else and enjoys living where we do. Our CC&Rs have not been a problem (keeping my fingers crossed).

When problems do occur, in my experience they tend to result from new comers unconcerned about the values held by existing property owners and from those short term owners attempting to buy and sell on spec and make a financial return on their investment.

Long term owners seem to have a different perspective.

Virgil Carter: In some circumstances you can have CC&Rs without an HOA. My father developed 10 lots including the streets and infrastructure in a rural area. He created CC&Rs to determine only the minimum house square footage, maximum number of animals, and maximum number of out-buildings just to keep the area from becoming billygoat acres. There was never an HOA created. I think to change the CC&Rs the majority of the lot owners would have to go before the planning commission and request a change or nullification. Everyone that bought the lots built according to the CC&Rs and seem to actually appreciate they were in place.

It's just beyond me why anyone would buy into a development with an HOA or CC&Rs and think they don't need to follow the rules. They must like drama.

I do want to thank you all for your input. after discussing it with the spouse further, since we do not like drama, we have decided to follow the rules completely.

The roof will likely be TPO

and siding will likely be vinyl

and all is right with the world again.

thanks!

Even if you get 100% approval, three month later one of the neighbours could change his/hers mind. Never worth dealing C&D letters and pleading with the court to lift C&D so you can finish the roof. You would not believe how impossible it is to find a contractor to work on the roof with C&D letters attached to all sides of your house.

Wonder how long it will take for Debbie to return to her confrontational, "I know best" frame of mind...

I do want to thank you all for your input. after discussing it with the spouse further, since we do not like drama, we have decided to follow the rules completely.

The roof will likely be TPO

and siding will likely be vinyl

I seem to remember a post sometime earlier when you said, "maybe I'll just simplify my life and go with vinyl from the get go. they'll hate it. it'll really devalues the neighborhood, but I followed the rules"

I am glad that you have come to a solution that you are happy with. Having said that, if you really believe that vinyl will devalue the neighborhood then I don't see how you are avoiding drama. I usually find that open and honest communication is the key to avoiding drama. You are inventing a fight that you may not have, I would still advise speaking to your neighbors to tell them your thoughts, and more importantly, to listen to theirs.

With 6 homes getting a deed restriction amended such that a 2/3rd vote will allow an exception should be doable. Even if it doesn't work out, your neighbors will probably be more accepting of the devaluation of their houses with your vinyl having had input, than they would be if you just popped it down in the middle of their neighborhood and started waving around the rule book.

-----

Not advice, but what I would write to my six neighbors...

Hello neighbor,

My name DE, and I recently purchased the property at 1 Drama Way. As I work on the design of my new house I have become fascinated with a more contemporary cladding than vinyl siding. However, before I even consider it as an option and begin working to achieve that goal, I wanted to get your input. I recognize that everyone in this neighborhood is a stakeholder and, in an effort to be a good neighbor, invite you to share your thoughts openly. My Contact information is.... I have enclosed some inspiration photos of houses with the material.

Sincerely,

DE

----

It may work, or it may not, but either way you create buy-in. So even if you end up with vinyl siding you have made it seem like their choice rather than yours. Having said that, your internet personality, which I realize is different than your real life personality, is not one that so easily accepts criticism, if you are not willing to listen and empathize then I would just stick vinyl on it and be done.

Bry, that would be great if people could isolate their opinions only to the cladding. But real neighborhoods are kind of like here, but more personal. Folks will weigh in on everything from the cladding to the presence or absence of a front-door overhang.

Fabulous advice Bry.

I'll write them and say hey neighbors. I'm building a house next door. due to my financial circumstances I can only afford vinyl. I'm afraid it may devalue your property values. if you would like avoid this and have me use brick instead please mail a check for $30000 to the following address.

thank you.

I wonder how much I would raise this way. I suspect zero

Fortune cookie says, "Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't..."

I like that as a concept, D E.

Include an image like this from Buchanan, it’s on the Trinity, it’s pretty cool-looking. My neighborhood would have a fit, but eventually it would become iconic.

Bry, that would be great if people could isolate their opinions only to the cladding. But real neighborhoods are kind of like here, but more personal. Folks will weigh in on everything from the cladding to the presence or absence of a front-door overhang.

That would be a neat trick and I would love to see it. Can you try it with the cladding on my house? Please feel free to comment on the presence or absence of a "front-door overhang" based on this picture.

bpath Oh Sophie

"I like that as a concept, D E."

A friend was going to paint his house and roof white. . He figured it would cut his energy bill in half. another guy said " wont the neighbors object?

he said "I'll paint it whatever color they want if they pay my electricity bill"

he didnt have any takers.

Its interesting that neighbors are OK with one spending one's hard earned money to improve or maintain THEIR property values.

bpath Oh Sophie

"Bry, that would be great if people could isolate their opinions only to the cladding. But real neighborhoods are kind of like here, but more personal. Folks will weigh in on everything from the cladding to the presence or absence of a front-door overhang."

Its probably best I dont involve my neighbors at all in my build. Ive already seen some of the closed minded feedback on here and I know that if neighbor tried to give me feedback about my design I would probably lose my ****

People, not being robots and all, often reply with something one doesn't expect. So how hard is it to say, "wow, I hadn't thought of that. I'll have to ponder it some. Do you have any thoughts about vinyl vs whatever weird crap it is I'm considering?" Lol.

As an introvert, I 100% get that walking up to strangers is a bit daunting. Consider it invaluable Intel. I'd much rather be friendly with neighbors than not. How much angst do we see here from people who hate their neighbors?

Give people who already live there a chance to be heard. Listen to them. Pretend you at least care that they not be too inconvenienced by new construction. Give them your contact info and encourage them to call if they have concerns. These may be the same people who can call the cops when people start stealing stuff from the job site.

Ok, I just saw the last response.

If you are serious, I kind of feel bad for you. Life must be pretty stressful if you can't even handle something that minor.

Having built a house, let me promise you it's one of the most stressful things I've endured in my life. If you can't handle minor feedback that is different from what you'd like to hear, I'm concerned you may have a stroke during the actual build. Wait until everything takes longer, costs more, everything you touch goes wrong, and subs start flaking out on you.......

big difference between feedback and opinion

And what is the difference?

feedback:

Res3d sketches - "your plan as shown wont work - you dont have enough steps and the headroom under the stairs wont meet code for a doorway"

Opinion:(regarding a design by an award winning architect)

Virgil Carter "FAIA"-

" It's one of the best proportioned bulk storage facilities that I have seen. "

D E - Not sure what kind of point you are trying to make, but both of the statements you referenced are feedback by definition (if a question was posed prompting both statements, however, you left out any context). You disagreeing with one doesn't change that.

And both comments happen to be true. It's just that Debbie doesn't like one of the comments.

You are the last person who should be building a house in a subdivision. I'm not saying that as an insult, either. I am saying that you have an individualistic mentality that does not go well with having rules or neighbors. You will never be totally happy in that environment. I can see that because my husband is very much the same way. He doesn't look for controversy, though , and likes a drama-free life, but he still wouldn't like being told what he could and couldn't do (either by a HOA or CC&R's).

Shead speaks words of wisdom.

This discussion make a lot more sense when you realize CC&R does not mean Creedence Clearwater Revival.

Yep, the subject of this thread is a Bad Moon Rising...

I thought it was about the Bathroom on the Right...