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kes4753

Planning for Next Season

6 years ago

I am looking out the window at trees, some of them still with green leaves, covered with snow. What the heck???!!! We had the warmest summer in a long time, record breaking October heat, a drought that didn't break till mid October and now this. I still have 20 roses in pots that were going to be planted before fall was over! I hope this is only an anomaly and not an early winter. This year was rough but there's always next year, right? I may as well start planning.


Some of my roses have not performed as expected. For some, it's because they aren't the roses I ordered. For others, I just don't know enough about them. Maybe someone else grows them too and can give some insight:

Ferdinand Pichard- After my early reasonable success with Gen. Jacqueminot, I thought I'd try another HP, even though I've not been successful with other HP's in the past. It came as a healthy band, did OK in a pot for a year and I planted it in the ground this spring. I kept it watered but it grew backward through a long hot summer till I thought it wouldn't make it. After the drought broke, it revived and started to grow again. I dug it up and potted it again. Its root growth was in negative territory. Is this rose a poor bet for heat and humidity? Does it struggle in acidic soil? Would it be better to try it in more shade? Would it be better for a cooler zone? If so, how much cooler? I could rehome this rose in NE Ohio (6a) or NW Indiana (5b).

Madame Carnot Not- (Possibly Mme Cunisette Carnot)- I got mine last year from ARE. It is nonclimbing and pink, not a climbing yellow noisette which I thought I'd be getting. I have been told that it may actually be the hybrid tea Mme Cunisette-Carnot. Hybrid teas haven't been my strong suit. I had planted it from a pot where it struggled into an empty front row spot. I thought it wouldn't thrive but it did better than expected through a long hot summer. I moved it to an empty spot in my east-southeast facing pink/china bed where 2 roses (Smiling Jean and Comtesse du Cayla) outgrew their place and one (Pink Gruss) grew backward. Does anyone know anything about this rose? How big? I am hoping an upright 3-5 ft? It's in a protected spot because I expect it's more tender than modern HT's?

Ping Dong Yue Ji- This one came to me as a double mistake. I ordered Ivor's Rose and got a rose labeled Isabella Ducrot which turned out to be PDYJ. Thinking that it was ID, I planted it in my remaining tea spot. Not a tea. I got it as a small band but it isn't anymore. It acts like Bermuda Spice, which could grow just about anywhere in my yard. So what can I expect from this rose for size and hardiness? It sailed through last winter but it was in a warm spot and it wasn't a severe winter. Heat and drought didn't seem to be a big deal either.

Not Siren's Keep- What I got when I ordered Siren's Keep from Rose Petals. It appears that a Paul Barden rose was switched with another of his creations somewhere along the line and this one is really the Barden hybrid gallica 08-02-05, not SK. It came as a small band last year and it's still in a pot. It struggled to survive last year till fall when it started to grow. This year it did a little better but did its growing when temps were under high 80's and 90's. It seems to grow OK for others who have hot summers but here it doesn't seem to grow at all till it cools down. What does this rose need to be happy? Does it just need time to mature? How big will it get? Is it possible to come up with a study name for it? I have a hard time recalling the number.

Romaggii Plot Bourbon- I hoped that this one would be a lot like the SDLM family roses for size and growth. Will it? Good to know before I plant it in the ground.

Ruby Voodoo- More like Gen. Jacqueminot or more like Stephen's Big Purple? I need to move it to more sunlight and it would help to know more about this one.

Faith Whittlesey- My absolute favorite tea and white rose of any I have. It is also the most tender and has a lot of dieback even in a protected tea spot. In warm weather it grows like a weed. It seems happiest when it's in the 90's. Always healthy. Always blooms well. The blooms are perfection. Anyone else in 7a grow this rose? Will it get hardier with maturity?


I'll be so grateful if you share your experience with these. Thanks.













Comments (10)

  • 6 years ago

    Kes, bumping this up, as you seem to have a very unusual collection of roses. I hope someone from TN will see this. I have not even heard of any of them, and being in Calif., have no helpful suggestions except one: see if you can find a local rose society, or a local rose garden which may grow these roses. Local advice is paramount, as you seem to be uncertain re how your roses will do in your climate.

    Kes Z 7a E Tn thanked jacqueline9CA
  • 6 years ago

    HI Ken

    I obviously can't grow most of the roses you list so I'm no help on the bulk of the list. I do have Ruby Voodoo and it's a pretty robust survivor of my winters, albeit in a protected spot. Mine wants to grow sideways (i.e. floppy canes) and it doesn't seem to bush out very well, but that might be a function of being cut to the ground each winter. The blooms are pretty informal so not like Stephen's Big Purple at all I would say, and the color isn't as dark or the petals as full as General Jacq. It blooms in clusters and so far hasn't had a terrific rebloom, but the foliage is clean for me year round and it has earned the small footprint it occupies (weaving around other roses with its floppy canes).

    I can only find two photos of it, both of which make the color look more watermelon pink where it tends to be more fuchsia pink to my eye. I never get anything that I would call as purple as General Jac

    Kes Z 7a E Tn thanked nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
  • 6 years ago

    Kes, I have Ping Dong and i know Kim Rupert has this rose too. I bought it bec it was unique and it has many blooms that were open . I bought it in Feb ( I think) from Dr. Manners.

    The foliage is remarkable. It is very green and loves our humidity and rain. It blooms a lot and when it is not it is growing with new foliage than blooms again. It is nomnon stop flushes. It has no BS at all. So far nothing has attack ( no bugs /insects) . We dont get mildew here nor rust. So far i cant smell it yet for fragrance but Kim said it is strong and sweet. I wont know the size of maturity and I am interested to know also.

    I just took measurements. It is 3.5 by 4 ft wide and the height is 2.5 ft. I have old pics and nothing recent.









    Kes Z 7a E Tn thanked Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
  • 6 years ago

    I am sorry but i have to post quick bec i also got bump twice . And I have to post one pic at a time. I did took one pic recently bec the whole bush looks so compact and it was so fall color that i am not use . I love the purplish color leaves.



    Kes Z 7a E Tn thanked Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
  • 6 years ago

    I thought you had that. I guess not Hardy huh? Really beautiful and I love the color of the new foliage.

    Kes Z 7a E Tn thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • 6 years ago

    Kes, i did not answer your question. I would not know the size but I am hoping Kum can answer that question or even Dr. Manners.

    As for hardiness again i am not sure as i refer the above experience in my tropical zone. I am sure it can take some cold but how much ? I really hope it will do as well for you as it is for me.


    Kes Z 7a E Tn thanked Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
  • 6 years ago

    Kim, I totally slaughter your name. I change it several times. Still goes back. Sorry !!


  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks, everyone!

    Thanks for the bump, Jackie. It did help. I know these aren't exactly mainstream roses.

    Cynthia, thanks so much for your description and photos. My Ruby Voodoo is young and isn't as far along as yours. Mine looks lanky, sprawling and weedy. I wondered if its spot would be too shady when I planted it and chalked up its appearance to needing stronger sunlight. I thought it should be more substantial but maybe that's how it's supposed to look? I plan on moving it to the edge of the lilac bed where it will face due south and be beside Ebb Tide and in front of the lilac and Gen. Jacqueminot. It's not as protected but if you're growing it, that doesn't seem to be a problem for me here. Your photos are very helpful. It should be a good fit for color, since Ebb Tide is something similar in the heat. As an aside, mauve and purple roses often do well for me when nothing else from the same family will. I've had to learn to appreciate the purples.

    Plumeria Girl, thanks for some background and provenance of your Ping Dong Yue Ji. I never heard of this rose and never would have ordered it if L had. So little is known about it. Even at that, my experience isn't too different from yours. It's easy to grow, healthy as all get out and a ready bloomer. Yours is really pretty. I'll bet by next spring it will be glorious. I can't imagine why it's not better known.

    Vaporvac, keeping in mind the value of free advice, PDYJ growth and appearance is so like my Bermuda Spice that if you can grow one, you can probably grow the other in a similar spot. It didn't have any dieback here but we had a milder winter than usual. If you're in 6b, it's certainly worth a try in a protected spot.

  • 6 years ago

    Please lets us know how Ping Dong grows in colder climate. If it does well this yr and next. Pls put it in HMF so there is some data to share. To be honest i never saw the comment's tabs. Thanks :)


    Kes Z 7a E Tn thanked Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)