The second granite you posted is lovely. I also think the quartzite is super dark. I will tell you that a referral to a countertop fabricator is worth the extra money (and absolutely buy your own sink!). If your countertop is not done well, with seams being considered carefully, you’ll be unhappy. Being invited to see the template on the slab prior to cutting, with your KD, also takes time. The higher cost probably is worth it. I had to create my own brackets, which was fine since I think they are a design element and should be up to you and your KD, not a countertop place. And homeowners never get prices from the fabricators. It’s standard.

IMO polished granite is close to bullet proof and stell supports for an overhang are now pretty much industry normal. Is your KD an actual independant one or a cabinets salesperson? Big difference BTW. yes you want to see the layout of the fabrication before signing off even with the KD. Pricing is really not IMO your business if you are hiring a designer . I also think 3 quotes are a max and all you do is confuse yourself with more and this applies to pretty much everything you choose. I agree the free sink would have no bearing for me on a decision. If you want to shop around be awrae this is then on you if there are problems. I like the silver cloud but I would try to find the slabs as light as possible and be awre of such a strong pattern that layout can be difficult to get right .The quartzite is awesome but IMO not for a whole kitchen . Have you looked at that for the island and a really simple black granite for the perimeter . That way you get to have both .

@marylut

Answering your questions:

1. "Will the KD just do the design or will the KD also work with the general contractor and which one will manage the entire project, such as ordering the cabinets and countertops and other materials? Answer: My understanding is that the KD will order the cabinetry, and then turn over the plans to whoever I select as a general contractor (GC) and the countertop fabricator. The cabinets would then be shipped to the KD's warehouse, sit there until the GC is ready for them, and then have them delivered to my house. And then the KD's part is done. The KD would order the cabinets, but the GC would oversee the bulk of the project.

2. "Will the KD or general contractor visit the job site every day?" Answer: The KD visited my house for measurements, and my understanding is that he wouldn't need to ever stop back over. My understanding is that the GC would be the one who stops over, not necessarily every day, but on days where either he needs to ensure that things are getting done or to check on work for tradespersons for specialty areas (hvac, plumbing, electrical, etc.)

3. "There are many tiny decisions the general contractor and subcontractors/tradespeople will make everyday, (for example, if your contract specifies under cabinet lighting under which cabinets do you want it?," Answer: good question, and you're correct - there are always a ton of details that the questions will come up as the project moves forward.

4. "will they make these decisions based on their experience or will they consult you?" Answer: I think (hope) that most of these small decisions should be easily made by me, with subject matter expertise input from whoever is most appropriate (KD, GC, specialty tradesperson). The good thing is that I am working from home, so unless I am in a long meeting, whoever is raising a question shouldn't have to wait long for an answer.

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

IMO polished granite is close to bullet proof and stell supports for an overhang are now pretty much industry normal. Is your KD an actual independant one or a cabinets salesperson? Big difference BTW. yes you want to see the layout of the fabrication before signing off even with the KD. Pricing is really not IMO your business if you are hiring a designer . I also think 3 quotes are a max and all you do is confuse yourself with more and this applies to pretty much everything you choose. I agree the free sink would have no bearing for me on a decision. If you want to shop around be awrae this is then on you if there are problems. I like the silver cloud but I would try to find the slabs as light as possible and be awre of such a strong pattern that layout can be difficult to get right .The quartzite is awesome but IMO not for a whole kitchen . Have you looked at that for the island and a really simple black granite for the perimeter . That way you get to have both .

1. "IMO polished granite is close to bullet proof and stell supports for an overhang are now pretty much industry normal. " Answer: Yeah, I thought steel supports for an overhang were industry standard too - which is why finding out some of the shops DIDN'T include that in their quotes - and at least one said that supports is the GC's task, not the fabricator's task - really surprised me.

2. " Is your KD an actual independant one or a cabinets salesperson? Big difference" Answer: I know, and it's become a source of frustration. Any KD around here is associated with a cabinet lines - and that is all they will consider selling. The KD I'm working with seems to be really good, but he's the only one I've found that sells this line of cabinetry.

3. "you want to see the layout of the fabrication before signing off even with the KD." Answer: I don't think the KD even is concerned with the actual fabrication layout - that's the countertop fabricator's job.

4. "Pricing is really not IMO your business if you are hiring a designer ." Answer: I feel that pricing is my business, as I'm the one, in the end, who will be paying for it. With the KD knowing what my total max budget is, I was a bit surprised that his first cabinetry quote was about 49% of the entire total kitchen budget.

5. " I agree the free sink would have no bearing for me on a decision." - Answer: Yeah, I was originally hoping to choose a nice workstation sink, rather than the freebies offered by a fabricator. With the budget and where quotes are coming in at... I may have to just accept that a workstation sink will not be part of the picture.

6. " I like the silver cloud but I would try to find the slabs as light as possible and be awre of such a strong pattern that layout can be difficult to get right " Answer: When I looked at the lighter Silver Cloud slabs, most had no movement/flow, and looked more like someone had taken a light-grayish-white background, and then spattered black dots all over it - not what I was looking for. Agree that it could be challenging with more patterning though.

7. "The quartzite is awesome but IMO not for a whole kitchen . Have you looked at that for the island and a really simple black granite for the perimeter . That way you get to have both." Answer: I've definitely considered that for the island. I was torn between possibly doing the gray stain for bottoms, and the white stain for uppers and then using only one stone choice to tie it all together, OR doing all gray, and then doing a "statement stone" for the island, and something different for the perimeter. And I guess, in my heart, I'm still torn - but the gray cabinets are on a less expensive wood than the white cabinets, and so there's a cost saving to be had if I stick with all gray cabinetry.

I think if money was not a concern - I'd do the base gray and uppers in white, and use the quartzite for all the countertop. But money is a concern, so I'm struggling to figure out what I can reduce in cost in order to make the project work, even if it means making some choices I'd rather not make (going all gray on the cabinets, removing a planned built-in bench, etc.)

@Sue54321 ABC I do belong to Costco - but I don't see countertop fabrication or granite on their web page. If you don't mind, can you ask your friend where/how she found out about it?

You will need to include in your agreement with the KD that, since he will be ordering, taking delivery, and storing the cabinets, he will be responsible for timely making sure that all the cabinets are all correct (correct dimensions, correct design & features etc) and undamaged. This should be assumed, but there have been a few tales posted here where that was not done, errors weren't discovered until time to install, and the entire project was held up for many weeks while replacements were fabricated - or worse, there was foot dragging on assuming responsibility and moving forward with correcting errors.

I agree with obtaining your own sink. Fabricators usually don't offer sinks with modern features such as offset drains, low divides, large single basins and so forth (in my experience) but only basic builder grade sinks.

I would agree that the Viscont white granite will have a better appearance overall, but you should search this forum for threads about this stone having a tendency to discolor so you will know what you are getting. Also, research this particular quartzite for issues (I don't know of any but I think that I recall talk about various quartzites being more or less fragile in this forum )

Not getting a price for a slab is NOT standard industry practice in every state. In CA where I bought many slabs, the slab yards give pricing to the customer, who buys the slabs and then hires a fabricator to pick up the slabs and fabricate the counters.

I am doing research for a project right now and when a vendor tells me they can't give me pricing, they will probably not get my business. You don't have to give me a contractor or special price, but I deserve to get the retail price, so that I can decide if I want to spend that price for that product. If the contractor I am using then gets a price break from that vendor then that is a separate subject, but the retail price should not be a secret.

Nothing in life is free! Buy your own better quality sink.

In my case (I went with quartz rather than granite, so I wasn't picking out a specific slab but a manufacturer and a style, but otherwise the principles will be the same), I had pricing through my GC's fabricator for the countertops. I never talked with the fabricator directly. There is absolutely no problem with that. When first talking with the GC, they were going to throw in the stainless steel sink - but thanks to the Kitchen Forum here, I ended up picking out my own sink (Blanco Silgranite, under-counter), which I do not remotely regret. (I ordered and paid for that myself, directly, and it was shipped directly here in plenty of time for the GC to take proper measurements and submit to the fabricator..)

There are some hazards with not speaking to a sub directly - I specified half bullnose and ended up with full bullnose - which was NOT something I was going to rip the countertops out over. (EDIT for Jan's sake, see her post below which I otherwise seriously agree with - it was in writing. Unfortunately my GC - one of the few area ones with expertise in log homes - was more of the type to communicate with subs in verbal communications. Very Old School. Hence, full bullnose here. I do think the fabricator came out to measure properly, himself. But I was still recovering from my broken ankle and could NOT drive here.)

Definite good points about picking out everything major in the kitchen to begin with - cabinets, countertops, major appliances, flooring should all work together. Ideally, the backsplash as well. My fault here was that I didn't want to deal with picking out a tile backsplash until later - TBH, I have NEVER lived in a home that had one, even as a child. So - my backsplash is washable painted sheetrock - and again, TBH, I'm perfectly happy with it.

(For the countertops, you will also need to have your faucets and possible in-counter soap dispensers, etc., handy, so the fabricator can cut them in, as well as the sink(s). Much of these come in standard connection sizes, but better to be safe.

Things like cabinet hardware can wait, generally speaking.

I really love the quartzite, but you need to be sure just about everything else in there (floors, appliances, cabinets) are light in color. But bit pieces such as faucets or cabinet hardware are small enough that this won't matter - potentially including the color of your sink, since you may not want a sink to be too contrast-y to the countertop - that mileage may vary..)

5. " I agree the free sink would have no bearing for me on a decision." - Answer: Yeah, I was originally hoping to choose a nice workstation sink, rather than the freebies offered by a fabricator. With the budget and where quotes are coming in at... I may have to just accept that a workstation sink will not be part of the picture.

This depends on whether you enjoy cooking a lot, or not. If you don't, or just view cooking as something just to get done, I understand. But actually - if it is a choice between quartzite and a good sink - I'd pick the latter any day. If you plan to cook a fair amount.

I chose a low grade dishwasher - I can always do this function by hand, if necessary (three years on, and it hasn't been). There were other places I downgraded while still keeping within a budget, so I could go with the good sink, etc. (and there are indeed good sinks less expensive than the Blanco).

Also, in your kitchen, get good faucets, not the ones with plastic parts inside. Which might mean shopping for them outside your big box stores.

Since both materials are very busy I would suggest you bring your fabricator to the stone yard and ask him to layout the counters in front of you so you can see where some of those big swirls are going to land on your countertops.

It won't happen , the fabricator will not go. You can tape off with the stone yard, and your cabinet sales person.

Your cabinets should be LASER template, you should be given a layout before a cut, on which to sign off.

That layout will specify every detail, inclusive of your chosen edge profile.

Most fabricators are way behind, and struggling to meet demand. There will be no slow down in that regard any time soon. Thank the virus : ) and a remodel explosion .

Helauren: It was over a decade ago that she got her Costco countertops. Found a quick Google search, I saw this. Maybe there is more. There is always Costco customer service to ask I guess.

https://www.costco.com/countertops.html

" I had to create my own brackets, which was fine since I think they are a design element and should be up to you and your KD, not a countertop place."

When I was a fabricator, customers and designers could have whatever brackets they chose, but I'd install no stone on supports that did not get my approval.

I've fixed enough failed seams in bar tops to know that the bracket manufacturers, designers, and homeowners don't know what they don't know.

I do know who's getting the callback and it ain't the lady in the air conditioning at her desk, believe me. When I approve, it ain't gonna be me either.

This is Silver Cloud on a dark island for reference.

@artemis_ma Good point about how much we'll be using the sink. We currently do a lot of cooking, especially with my 14-year-old also cooking too.

I met with a GC today, and he says that my budget is fine from what he can see.

Some Silver cloud granite is very nice. some are not. it's a rather inexpensive granite, so the higher prices are mark ups.

I don't know what your layout is, but w/this type of granite ALWAYS make sure you look at how they're going to cut it and seam it. as you can see w/this one, the seams w/the change of direction are very noticeable.

**Always ask if you can pay in cash (if you can) to see if you can get a better price.

Forget the sink! It's a sales tactic. the sin they give you for 'free" is the cheapest, thinnest SS on the market. you could prob buy one yourself for under $100. So is the sink really that important to you?? (BTW, any SS sink, you want a 14 gauge. see what the gauge is on the free sinks. they're prob 18 or higher. Tinny noisemakers)

You never said how far off your overhang is. what's all the fuss about steel supports? you have GC working with you? for a few hundred he should be able to install them for you. If your overhang is under 10-12", you don't even need one.

so it comes down to what you really want. A kitchen is an investment that will be with you for at least 20 years. over the span of 20 years, is an extra 2-3 grand going to break you? prob not.

Get what you like. If you don't, and this viscount white goes in, you'll always regret it.

to give you an idea of prices (and i'm in So Cal) This is a slab of quartzite that would be comparable to yours in price. It's Fantasy Macaubas and the slab is $2500.

I've seen your quartzite labeled as Black Fantasy or, Silver Fusion, and I can't see it costing that much more. so they're basically charging you 5K to fabricate it? what's your layout like?

Ask them how much for the slab. If they tell you 4K, I'd say go shopping elsewhere.

How much is the slab of the granite? If one slab is 1500, and the other slab is 3K, the cost of fabrication shouldn't be that much diff. the quartzite is a tad harder than granite, but nothing that should make them raise the price by thousands.

btw, here is SO Cal, you can go shopping at any stone yard and see the price for the slab. It's no secret. Have you visited stone yards yourself?

Silver Fusion

some look great leathered

it's a rather newer one, so not many pictures.

this is blue fusion quartzite to give you an idea how the gray/black one might look

this one is called Silver Waves (some call it cosmic black granite)

Again, ask if you paid in all cash, could they lower the price by a few hundred or more. All they can say is no. But a lot of places will take the cash because they can fudge on the state tax.

Most places will give you a better price.

Use the savings to buy a nicer sink.

The only thing cash will get you here? A chubby purse for half an hour and 160 bucks off an 8 k granite job. That's the 2 % credit card fee they pay.. Nobody will do it. : )

lol.jan, you're in NY. you're not getting anything for a good price there!

I find cash discounts all the time out here. like I said, "don't cost nuthin' to ask!"

True. Only the leaders of both states are totally corrupt.

oh you aint whistling dixie! The LA mayor is piece of corrupt work too. They closed down the restaurants in LA. After require them to move everything outside, getting 6' seating, yada yada. So this poor owner of a restaurant in LA, who has everything outside in the parking lot, is told she has too close. She's barely making it as it is. What does she see as she goes to her business today? A movie set. With outside dining for the catering. Tables and tents set up just like her business. That was forced to close. But apparently if you're shooting a movie, the virus totally bypasses you . yeah. I wonder how much money the mayor was paid for him to OK that license? Bunch corrupt POS"s. Here we have a sole business owner who is drowning, but if you're making a movie it's perfectly OK.

Yeah, tell me again the science behind all this virus nonsense.

282,000 deaths in the US in nine months. 2,190 Americans died yesterday. The corruption of our leaders doesn’t make this virus less real.

helaurin-

I know you like what Silver Cloud granite looks like, and it is very pretty, reminiscent of a Malamute or Siberian husky.

But like people, quality is more important than looks.

And some Houzzers here who really know their stuff have said that Silver Cloud granite is not that great quality.

helaurin, you are really sinking your hard-earned money into this kitchen, and this will be your only kitchen re-model, and you have said that the other members of your house are not going to treat your kitchen delicately.

Do you think it might behoove you to get a better quality granite that might be more sturdy?

Question to the cognoscenti-

Why is the 16 gauge stainless sink better if 18/10 stainless flatware is better than 16/10 stainless flatware?

barbara, no one said it's not real. we're talking about the hypocrisy with certain party leaders. If you have money you're part of the 'exempt' crowd and the virus apparently skips you (as evidenced by all the video proof of them 'for thee, no me' bs) . but if you're a lowly business owner who is barely keeping their head above water, the virus targets only you, hence you're shut down. Can you not understand any of that? That's what Jan and I were referring to.

As for your numbers, I'll disagree w/you. the current tally of deaths, from the virus only, is highly exaggerated.

Beth, I saw that video. You could feel the pain in that woman's voice.

chispa, right? I felt so badly for her. that mayor, and the governor, are the epitome of hypocrites. you know damn well that movie company paid the mayor big bucks in order to get his closure mandate 'overruled' per some obscure loophole. And to have it right next to her space! talk about a slap in the face. These dictators are absolutely horrendous in using this virus as a control tactic. No scientific proof to back up any of their decisions. It's sickening. what's worse are the sheep that blithely believe in it and and follow along.

Don't get me started...............we have zip code idiocy.t Here, you can BE in five or six zips in a single day. One restaurant simply "sends " the business to another allowed to remain open as they go dead broke..

NONE of the shutting down works. There is a local community center with entry doors in two zips.......yup, "use the far RIGHT side entrance to the property". Not making it up.

To me, the answer is get the spreaders vaccinated FIRST.

The spreaders are 18 to 35 and have NO skin in the game. I'd vaccinate the vulnerable health care workers, ALL the 18 to 35, then 35 to 70 years ( the highly compromised among that group would certainly be in front.) , and ............then the very very elderly.

Why? Who are the UNskilled workers in nursing homes, in hospitals. Who drives pizza around, or Grub Hub? Who checks you out usually at the supermarket? Who works in bars and restaurants in large numbers? Which is the age group most likely to gather and pack themselves together, ignoring distance rules as they are unlikely to even know they HAVE the virus. Who "parties" post work ? It's not the mom in her late forties, early fifties. , that's for certain. She's home wringing her hands as she can't go in person to see her aging MOM. Get the spreader, and you will have solved the "elderly " issue. But, it's POLITICALLY INCORRECT ......... while simultaneously logical .The elderly in a nursing home are not transient. They go NOWHERE. Their grandchildren do.

In the meantime:

Do NOT touch your face. Pretend your palms are barbed wire. I'm amazed the lack of emphasis on that one.

Keep the six feet........ yank up that mask. I'm all for glasses too!

Wash your hands and STILL keep them far from your face and those five entry points ON it. ( the only way you can catch it - two eyes, two nostrils and a mouth)

Do that, and you can pretty much go anywhere. If you get it despite all this? It's 99.4 odds you are gonna LIVE. Assuming you've not died from extreme anxiety, loneliness, or sheer boredom....first.

@loobab I'll try to find the references you have about Silver Cloud being not a good quality granite. I figured it seems to be pretty common, so that contributes to it having a lower price than some other granites.

I know that I really like the quartzite that I saw.

The concern was raised that having a dark countertop with the gray cabinetry would make the room look like a tomb; however, that might be alleviated (maybe enough, not sure) by having a white backsplash, and a white or near-white surface for all the painted surfaces (walls, doors, ceilings, trimwork) with lots of lighting.

Adding a screenshot of the countertop layout/dimensions

it's not that silver cloud isn't good quality (it's granite, it's fine) it's just not a type that is rare, or expensive to mine, or something that is in high demand. it's been around for awhile and has run it's course. same as giallo ornamental or santa cecelia. those were huge back in 2000, and saturated the market. now, everyone is tired of them so the price has plummeted.

if you find a nice slab of silver cloud and you like it, get it! it's not bad looking by any means.

helaurin93: Seam through your sink and you'll be fine.

I’m not sure where you’re located (although I thought I read NY in one of the comments).

Here’s a sample of other granites and “specials” in the NJ and nearby areas. You can browse through their options under “Granite Countertops”

https://aquagranite.com/granite-countertops-nj/

https://colonialmarble.net/products/

https://unitedgranitepa.com/products/natural-stones/granite/

There are other sites similar to these. Check your local area.

@GBel26 I'm in Chester County, Pennsylvania. I've been to both Colonial and United, but not Aqua. I'll check them out, thank you :)

Granite is a good choice if you like how it will look. That’s all that matters. Definitely say no to their sink and buy what you want. If getting granite will help your budget and allow for other higher priced items (like faucets and fixtures) then it makes sense. But you really have to LOVE your countertop. It is such a large part of your kitchen.

Get the stone your love. Buy a cheaper refrigerator or change something else you can cut back on. Counters you stare at every day. You're going to walk into your kitchen first thing in the morning and stroke that beautiful stone and smile. No regrets!!

@Joseph Corlett-

What does this mean?

"Seam through your sink"

loobab:

Look at helaurin93's drawing please. There is no stone at 159 x 51". That means she has to have a seam. The best place for that seam is through the center of the sink.

Joseph- You mean for two pieces to abut one another? Why is that good to do in a sink

@loobab I'm going to take a guess - that the two pieces on the long edges of the sink (front and back) are typically the narrowest pieces, so there may be less overall strength. And the piece in front may be the one that gets the most abuse - people tend to put pressure and lean on edges, and that's the narrowest section. Putting a seam in the middle might allow for just the smidgen of flex that could be needed, you know, in case someone like a football linebacker decides to lean hard on that narrow edge, to avoid the piece cracking entirely. Also - the weight of the sink, especially of a larger sink, might change and also put varying pressure on the stone surrounding it - a sink that's empty is one thing, but a sink that gets filled with heavy pots (especially cast iron ones), water, etc. - that could also maybe change the distribution of weight for the granite around the sink. But I'm nowhere near an expert on this - but that would be my guess. Hopefully @Joseph Corlett, LLC will tell me if I'm even close to the correct answer :)

When a sink is strapped, not clipped, in place, it turns one of the weakest areas of a countertop into one of the strongest. The straps turn the sink into a 9" deep truss with the weight bearing on the cabinet sides, not on the top.

Beth H. above submitted a series of photo's of which the first one is a beautiful combination of the more expensive silver cloud (has the wavy organic looking lines you like) on the island and a black and white counter on the perimeter cabinets. The grey quartzite you love has a mostly grey background which doesn't harmonize as well. I agree that using the wavy granite with seams looks terrible so a good compromise would be spending more on the silver cloud that mimics the look of the quartzite you love on your island and a black with white veining on your perimeter cabinets. Not having a sink cutout on the island would be cost saving as well. Taking a smaller hit to your budget would be preferable to asking for gift from boyfriend.

@HU-786049761 Hi - there is no sink cutout on the island. The sink is on the perimeter, below a window. I'm not sure if I follow your suggestion? Are you saying use the Silver Cloud on the island, and then a different stone (perhaps the quartzite, or something else with less veining) on the perimeters?

As far as the Restaurant owner chaos, here is what we don't know:

1) If the food for the movie set is provided for them, then it is not operating as a business.

2) Are all the employee's tested for Covid every day before they enter the set?

3) Seating movie set employee's w/known negative results together would be safer.

4) Are there even seats? Maybe employee's only pick up their food and take it elsewhere.

So while it sure looks bad, we don't have all the information and it's like comparing apples to

oranges.

Why don't we stick to the OP'S question here. Start a new post if you want to talk about Co-vid.

Seaming through the sink also minimizes the area of counter needing to be matched up, so the change in slab is less prominent.

Yes, I was suggesting using a more expensive Silver Cloud granite that has more movement on your island (sometimes stone yards have remnants that are less $) and putting something with less veining on your perimeter cabinets. As in the photo that Beth H. submitted (1st picture) having white perimeter cabinets and the black cabinets on the island would be important to pull this look together. Cambria (sold thru Costco) has a subtle version called Mammoth Cave with a organic feel. If you could locate that specific kitchen picture sometimes they list the materials used or if you are using a design service have them match the more expensive Silver Cloud slab you choose for the island.

Joseph- I don't even know what a strapped vs clipped sink means, much less what that has to do with a seam in granite. Is there a website to which you can refer me so I can read up on this?

Here you go.

Thank you!