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Re-doing an old lawn

HU-779819699
3 years ago


Recently moved to a new for us house. There is one poorly established lawn area, and two areas that need working from scratch, I have included photos of the three areas, and am looking for input as to what you guys suggest would be a good way to get started on this project.

My thought is that the lawn area that's already there needs top dressing with quite a bit of soil and over seeding. There's quite a bit of broad-leaf weeds in the existing lawn.....whats the best way to approach this before top dressing, or should I start from scratch on all three areas, kill everything off, top dress with 2-3" good dirt , and then seed or hydro-seed?

The other two areas have never been established....just mostly ground with a few weeds. The soil is full of clay, so the less removal I need to do the better.

Looking for some ideas and advice. #1 and#2 are the areas that have had nothing done to them....#3 is fairly established but lots of broad-leaf, and needs some leveling.

Thanks for any help....I realize I won't be doing anything till Spring, but wanted to get my plan ready.




Comments (6)

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    3 years ago

    I'm going to advise against topdressing with additional topsoil except in places where erosion is obvious. Changing the grade on things is...not going to work well, will direct water where you don't want it to go, and will lead either to erosion, or to soil buildup in weird ways. Irregular ground is another possibility. And that water thing I mentioned, which could end up in your basement, garage...or worse, your neighbor's basement or garage.

    In Area #1, that would also lead to erosion down that path. That's not a great idea.

    In places where erosion did happen (as noted), go for it. Bring it back to the grade.


    Regrettably, the photo for #2 and #3 didn't upload. Houzz can be like that.


    Spring isn't the best time to seed (it's lousy), but since the house is new-to-you, it's the first chance you have. Let's give it a whirl, but plan on needing to do this again in late August.

    Reason being, spring-sprouted grass doesn't have time to establish full root systems before the heat of summer. You'll have to coddle it a bit (or hope for a cold, wet summer), and even so, losses can be brutal. Spring seeding works best the further north you are, and I don't see your locale. I'm shooting everything below depending on your weather so it's not date-specific (although somehow that feels like Virginia to me, it could be anything from NH to FL).

    Let us know. Right now, I'm assuming a northern grass type, so Tennessee and northward.


    You can add soil any time you want for any type of lawn, so if it's warm enough to work, go for it. Generally unfrozen ground is easier, but even atop frozen ground is technically OK. Try to match your local soil type as best you can, although for small additions, it's less important. Most places you purchase from should be able to do this for you.

    "Clay soil..." :-) Probably not, but it is possible. Even in predominately clay areas, there are places that don't, and most soils people think are clay simply aren't. There are ways to tell, but soils that act like clay usually do so due to ion imbalance or deflocculation. It's a long story. For now, don't worry about it.

    Type of grass: For a general northern lawn, I usually just recommend a tri-mix, with rye, fescue, and Kentucky bluegrass. It's a good general choice with a lot to recommend it. If a southern lawn, your nearest city/state will give the southern guy(s) some ideas.


    Plant when things start warming up. For most of us, that's going to be April. Here in PA, April opens with cold and blustery weather, while down south April is already spring. So what date, exactly, is up to you. Too early is better than too late; grass seed and sprout doesn't care about frost and tolerates it just fine.

    This is the one time of year I recommend a starter fertlizer--Starter with Mesotrione. This will help keep spring weeds down for 30 days while the seed sprouts. It's not perfect. But it helps. Apply at bag rate, before or after the seed--it doesn't matter. This should be available at any big box store.

    Scatter seed at the bag rate. If you can cover with 1/8th to 1/4" of peat moss or compost, that's wonderful. 1/16" of soil is great, too--just a dusting. If not, it's not strictly necessary.

    Keep. It. Damp. Water two to three times daily. Yep, daily. It has to stay moist for 1 entire month (fescue and rye will sprout in 5-14 days, bluegrass takes up to 28 days but it's worth the wait).


    Once the month is over (May), back off slowly. Go to once every other day watering and hold that for a week or so. Water every third day for a week. We might be in June at this point, or getting close--remember, rainfall does count!

    Feed on Memorial Day (or at least around May 20th, it's not that exact!) and not before; earlier, the grass is too young. Later, it's too late.


    You might be able to get to every fourth day before summer comes on. That's great.

    You might have to go back to every third day during July and August, or if you get a hot dry spell. Or even every other day if the weather is really intense.

    Your target is going to be 1" of water a week, from whatever source, but it might need to go higher during that first year because new lawns aren't so good at picking it up.


    By summer and the third mow or so, you can start to spot-spray weeds. And there will be plenty. Before then, you can't do so easily unless you're very careful to avoid spraying the grass. Young grasses simply can't tolerate exposure to herbicides very well and it's better not to use them. You can manually remove weeds, though, and many won't survive being mowed.


    Come late August, when nights get a little cooler, if it's still thin and there are bad areas (there probably will be), reseed those (you can use the Mesotrione again if you want, although I'm not entirely happy with blindly using starter twice here...but for one year, it'll have to do). Same rules apply as for spring seeding.


    General feeding thereafter, even if overseeding (the lawn is still growing and young):

    Memorial Day: The feeding you already did with a nice high-nitrogen fertilizer

    Labor Day: Feed with any good high-nitrogen fertilizer

    October 1: Feed...

    When growth stops: Feed...

  • D M PNW
    3 years ago

    Area 1 would look good with a mix of shrubs instead of grass. There can be some grasses mixed in, just not lawn grass. There would be no need to add dirt and no mowing on that slope. Cover ground between shrubs with cardboard and mulch until shrubs get large enough to shade the ground. There shouldn't be a lot of weeds to deal with.

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    3 years ago

    Sure, something that doesn't require a lot of water or care, and can take an absolutely punishing amount of heat (which is going to rise off the gravel from sunlight in summer) and some mechanical damage (gravel thrown by cars, depending on how often that happens).

    If salt gets used on that, a rather bad environment might be necessary to add to the list, too. And one would need to be quite careful with plowing; shrubs don't like long-term burial under snow...or being scraped off.


    No worries there, there are plenty of shrubs on the list that will deal with that. Your location, again, will help to generate that list.

  • HU-779819699
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks everyone....sorry the other photos didn't come through....area 2 is to the left of the lawn and area 3 is the existing lawn.

    Location is the Interior of British Columbia....I think considered a Zone 7A- 1F to 5F if that helps.

    I'm really wanting to lawn rather than shrubs....lots of issues with the local deer population.

    So if I was to kill off areas 1 and 2 what do you recommend I use bearing in mind trying to grow grass afterwards? Also, I've hydro-seeded a yard in the past and was very pleased with how it turned out....rally nice lawn, so I'm leaning toward that.

    Thanks.

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    3 years ago

    I'll presume areas are large and in charge, like area 1 (which is in charge, if not large). Glyphosate (Round Up) will kill things off without residual, just make sure to choose the Round Up without lasting impact (the one that does will say something like "keeps killing weeds for X weeks or months...")

    I presume you have that in BC, although I'm unfamiliar with Canadian products and laws...so any combination brush and grass killer will work, if not. This is one of those cases where use of an herbicide over wide areas makes sense; it's gonna be easier than a manual removal.


    If you're in an herbicide desert, source the widest-spectrum killer you can to take out the largest number of things you can. Cut everything else as short as you can--some things dislike that. Many things survive it just fine, thanks. Just read the label to see what the reseed time is.


    While generally, the best seeding is done in fall, you're fortunate that BC is a more maritime environment no matter where you are in it. You can get away with a spring seeding much more easily than, say, I could. Hydroseeding's great, or just scatter seed on the now-fallow ground.

    Do it when soil temperatures warm to around fifty degrees F, or 10 C, which is when daytime highs are around 60, or 15 C, most of the time (this does vary widely, of course, but it's a good general rule).

    And you know to water if nature doesn't, two to three times a day, lightly to keep it damp through sprout and grow in. The first summer, don't let it get hot and dry, but your weather doesn't do that much anyway, not like most of the US.

    If you have thin spots, you can fill them in when summer starts to come to an end, usually late August for most of us, but that might be different for you. Whenever nights start to cool off somewhat but days are still nice and warm to germinate the seed fast. With your limited winters, you also have a wider window of sprout, too.


    As to the grass you choose...fescue, rye, and bluegrass all do well there and there are farms of all three within range of you (I've seen claims that bluegrass does not perform in the NW states and Pacific Provinces, but one has to consider cultivars; the more tolerant ones like some of the elite families do very well. Older bluegrasses do less well, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend an off-the-shelf mix for bluegrass, but if there's some in it, that's absolutely not a problem. It will either flourish, select for good cultivars, or die out and allow the fescue/rye to dominate).

    I'm doubtful you want an elite lawn, so that's probably of no concern. :-)

  • PRO
    Van Zelst Inc
    3 years ago

    It's a great idea to begin planning now for the coming spring. We recommend working with a landscape architect for the best results.


    Here are links to a couple of our website blog articles you might enjoy:

    This one addresses the benefits of overseeding your lawn:

    https://www.vanzelst.com/blog/benefits-of-overseeding-your-lawn/.

    This one addresses low-maintenance alternatives to lawns:

    https://www.vanzelst.com/blog/lawn-alternatives/.

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