The only way to determine if your quote is "super high," as you suspect, is to compare it with similar quotes. To fairly compare quotes, you'll need to ensure the proposed scope of work is the same, the equipment is comparable in terms of capacity, efficiency, warranty, features, and is controlled in a similar way (zoned vs. non-zoned.)

A multi-level home with a single, central system is a good candidate for zoning because each level will have different heat loss/gain. Short of installing a separate system for each floor in the home, a zoned system is a good way to ensure the system maintains occupant comfort on each level.

Is the contractor proposing two HVAC systems, one in the basement and one in the attic? If that is the case then the quote you are getting is not out of line. If it is only one system, then where will it be located?

If all the walls are exposed, then it may be feasible to install a single system in the basement and run the duct work up to the first and second floors. This would avoid equipment and duct work in the attic. You may have to give up some space and build a chase for the main supply duct and return for the second floor. This is how it is done with many two story houses with basements.

Thank you both - the proposal is for a single system in the basement, with zoned ductwork running into the attic. The floor plan is very open and interior framing hasn't begun, so there is plenty of wiggle room to add in a chase where needed. I should also note that the second floor joists are being redone with engineered I-Joists (12"), so I was hoping to be able to run ductwork there vs. the attic. I am not opposed to zoning, I've just heard nightmares about maintenance and costs of these communicating technologies. The home is for myself but I won't live in it for more than 5-10 years, so I'd like a good mix of efficiency and cost effectiveness. All walls are exposed on the interior, including exterior walls.

Recently got an estimate for $21,000 to extend propane heat into upper level of house I moved into Dec. 5th. With it being zoned so as to provide heat to individual rooms currently served only by electric baseboards that are not being used (I am cranking up the two existing propane heaters downstairs in order to try and warm the upper floor - with limited success. With the seller having gone to heating entire house with wood fireplace in living room by time of my purchase - something I do not want to do).

Agree anytime work of some expense is being considered multiple bids or estimates should be solicited so as to get an idea of what the fair market value is for the project in the local area. As in like, half a dozen if you can get that many service providers to respond within the same general time period.

The first thing I wanted to do after I assumed this property (located in a country town on an island) was add an upstairs exterior door and associated features such as a stairway to the ground. Of the 3 local contractors I called that were presenting themselves to the market here as entertaining this kind of work the pleasant sounding woman answering the phone at the first company told me that in the past they would gladly take my job on but in the current conditions they were booked solid for the next two years. And these were all full scale remodels. The second guy called back for the first time after about 2 weeks, did come out and talk to me but then turned out to apparently be a general with the resulting proposal having multiple different other individuals listed as performing specific involved activities such as carpentry. With the cost being about $15,000.

For a door and a stairway.

The third operator has never returned my call.

Hi, Mike,

I had a Lennox system with zoning in my last home. The system was 15 years old when I sold the home. I never had a single problem with the Lennox compressor unit, the air handler, the controls or the zoning. But, like the fine print in the mutual fund prospectus states, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

It sounds like there are opportunities to run duct work efficiently and avoid going into the attic and adding zoning. You need to find a contractor who is willing to work with you to come up with a good solution.

Thanks to all, its definitely a difficult time to find a contractor of any type!

A good zoned system is probably the right choice, but if you want one that is very highly tuned and flexible its going to cost more. Maybe that's what is being proposed (multiple thermostats, staged HVAC fan, automatic dampers, etc.).

Since the need for heat and A/C is going to change mostly based on seasons, maybe a good HVAC company can come up with a relatively simple manual solution. For example, heat rises, so you want all the air returns wide open upstairs during the winter so it will draw off excess heat, and you want air vents into the upstairs to be significantly reduced or closed (manual damper in the main duct?). Air vents into the 1st floor should be wide open during winter and the return air flow limited. During the summer you want max air flow into the upstairs and the air returns in the 1st floor wide open.

Since the contractor is building the system from scratch in a gutted home, it should be feasible. It could be designed with manual dampers (summer vs. winter position) to change the airflow in main ducts and return ducts. It won't be a perfect solution to even out the temperatures, but there are definitely ways to tune the flow of heated and cooled air if dampers are included during installation.

Bruce

Thank you Bruce, that sounds like a reasonable option- I'll propose that to the two other contractors.

JuneKnow - I realize that between materials cost and demand, costs are higher- however I also know that not every contractor is honest. I got foundation addition quotes ranging from 39k to (prepare yourself) 95k for the SAME JOB. (And the 39k guy had glowing references compared to the 95k) That said, there is no harm in asking around and getting multiple quotes. There is always someone out there who would love the work and will do it for a FAIR (not cheap) price.

"There is always someone out there who would love the work and will do it for a FAIR (not cheap) price."

Mike:

The guys you want to do this job are very busy right now. When you've got more customers than capacity, you raise prices. It has nothing to do with fairness and everything to do with supply and demand. 13 years ago these same guys were losing their houses, cars, wives, and 401ks when the shoe was on the other proverbial foot.

Any contractor who is "booked out for two solid years" isn't charging nearly enough.

I'm booked out a month; for the last 3 years I've never had more than a week's worth of work ahead. I keep thinking I can't raise prices any higher, but I'm apparently wrong as they keep coming and signing. I'm interviewing a guy on Tuesday; here's hoping.

Sounds very high but the only way to really know is to get 3-4 more estimates.

In my experience, it's not easy finding a competent HVAC contractor. Indeed, it appears the majority are in the Chuck-in-a-Truck category based on threads here on houzz.com If the contractor you're consulting with is a Lennox dealer, I suspect he's in the above average category. Yes, that probably means a higher price tag, but you get what you pay for.

"but you get what you pay for"

Sadly, that's not been my experience in this business!

Paying the highest price doesn't guarantee the best result in any endeavor. Due diligence is still de rigeur.

"Sounds very high but the only way to really know is to get 3-4 more estimates."

Imagine being a contractor whose phone is ringing off the hook. A potential wants you to throw your hat into the ring with 3 other guys. Nagadoit.

The smart contractor is a brutal qualifier these days. "How did you get my name?" If you don't answer with a referral, not "The phone book", I'm probably not wasting time with you and your 3 other bids.

The prices of the components hasn't gone up. When this pricing level is your choice you can reduce the part of pricing that is causing the problem. Ductwork can be purchased separately. With the interior stripped, you can do the install. Run the gas supply and electrical yourself. You can purchase the AC/Heating components. This is not rocket surgery. You can have repair guys you pay by the hour do the final commissioning. We did the ducts, gas supply and electrical. We were able to negotiate a fair price from the best commercial hvac company in our area for the remainder. That may not do it today. That's why the repair guys is an option now.

I plan to run gas and electrical myself - the ducts and sizing of the HVAC seemed daunting to me and better left to a pro!

Many municipalities allow homeowners a lot of latitude with regard to performing trade work without a license. Most draw the line at gas fitting. Check with your local code compliance office before running gas service without a license. It may not be permitted. It would be better to learn that before you invest time and effort in the installation.

Get more estimates. Also you need to make absolutely sure the quote includes a heat load study (which is called a Manual J) and have the system size accordingly. Any reason you a trading a hydronic system with all is comfort advantages and quiet operation with a forced air system? You could not pry my hydronic baseboard system our of my cold dead hands. That being said, get some other quotes. Make sure you compare apples with apples. Check references and qualifications. 15 years ago I replaced my ageing at the time 35 year old bolier with a top line energy efficient oil fired boiler with my current one. Even back then just replacing the boiler , controls, pumps and valves and the required near boiler plumbing changes was 9000 bucks. That was 15 years ago, so given all the duct work, I would say that quote isn''t too far off. But do pick a company with excellent references. The internet is littered with people who end up with shoddy, badly designed and noisy ineffective systems

Your quotes are in line with the ones I got two years ago to retro fit HVAC iduct work in my older two story similar size home. I am in the north east within a commuter distance to NYC.

Why do you want to get rid of the boiler heating system? I think that's the best and most comfortable. I would keep that and add some minisplits for the AC, especially if your existing boiler is gas-fired.

Stay 10000 feet away from a Lennox. We had nothing but freon leaks and horrible evaporator coil.(9 year old unit). Almost 90% of the homes in our neighborhood had to change it or change the coil.

In our area with no one traveling, a definite cut back in eating out , only using a tank gas of month, there seems to be lots of home renovation going on and contractors in CT seem to be really busy with flush of case some of us have.

"Stay 10000 feet away from a Lennox. We had nothing but freon leaks and horrible evaporator coil.(9 year old unit). Almost 90% of the homes in our neighborhood had to change it or change the coil."

Lennox is no less reliable than any other brand. All brands had issues with leaking copper evaporator coils over the last 10-15 years.

Yes, all brands leak.

I am counting on it. All of us HVAC contractors lay awake at night thinking up ways to get at your Freon money.

One way... To convince you the brand you have is inferior... when in fact: THEY ALL LEAK.

They're selling you! C'mon man.

Why do you think new laws are being passed right now to phase out the newer R410a refrigerant? (Hint: they all leak)

Whatever equipment you choose right now will be incompatible with the newer refrigerant (whatever they decide that to be, there's two being considered and of those two neither of them are perfect).

There was a saying (in another era) that you are probably not aware of... it goes like this.

What is a Sears Sucker?

Sears made it, the sucker bought it. (It's the same thing going on now, the only difference is that Sears is probably not involved in it.)

I changed my HVAC to 2 zone Carrier for a bungalow 2 years ago. It was around $500 for the drawings, $8K for new ducts, $5K for the furnace, $750 for each thermostat and approximately $3-5K to install the dampers to control the zones. I'm going install the dampers later in the future. I am in Toronto.

If I were to do it again, I'd ask the HVAC designer to spec the air return with metal ducts.

Seems about there. A friend of mine had three systems installed in a large house for about $45K

sktn77a - No doubt there is a bad apple in all brands but here in North Carolina, Lennox has had a useless reputation and a pattern is seen atleast near me where the builder cheaped out on a Lennox and now ppl are paying the price. The local Costco has a Lennox displayed and there is not a single human standing their marketing that product. That by itself speaks volumes. 2 years back my HVAC tech was into "Trane" but now has steered away from it as they are being sold to Ingersoll. I believe any issue with a Trane, they need some special codes directly from the company everytime they run a diagnostic. This is coming from a HVAC tech and a friend (Mechanical Engineer) who is in construction and deals with these companies on a daily basis.

When we had our ducting constructed, the supplier did the sizing based on our blueprints. All he does is ducting so the calculations were something we left to him. We worked with him on the outlet and return locations. Again, this isn't rocket science. The install is simple enough. Breaking down the project to the point where the heating/cooling units were a half day install allowed us to offer our job to a higher quality company who mainly do commercial work. They sent two guys who could do the hookup in their sleep. Pricing was negotiated and very reasonable. So if you want reasonable pricing break the job down. Bring the licensed guys in for the critical portions. Do the time consuming low skill parts yourself/friends or with the help of a good handyman.

Getting multiple bids from various HVAC contractors without a 3rd party HVAC design is a disaster waiting to happen. You will likely get 3 different sets of specs quoted that will not be apples to apples. The cheapest bid will be the guy who quoted the smallest system.... or not!

I suggest paying for a 3rd party design then take that design to the subs for bid. The HVAC designer would probably review the bids too to make sure they comply (for a fee). In my opinion there are too many details that a homeowner or even most general contractors can not understand to be able to effectively compare quotes without a 3rd party design. Your bid WILL be apples to apples then.

The local Costco has a Lennox displayed and there is not a single human standing their marketing that product. That by itself speaks volumes.

You have to understand how box stores that sell a certain brand of HVAC works. It isn't Costco doing the work. Typically a 3rd party HVAC company mans the store with "their employee" not Costco employees.

Costco provides the space in the store for the HVAC company that has rights to that store location. If you go to a different store location, The HVAC company may be different. Some larger HVAC companies may have more than one location.

Costco's motivation to do this: They charge the HVAC company manning their store with fees for any sale that goes thru the Costco loop. Why would an HVAC company do this? Impulse sales is really the only reason / maybe convenience to a shopper etc.

HomeDepot / Lowes etc. Have similar systems in place.

Now with the pandemic and such going on, HVAC companies are busy they don't need to man a store looking for sales, that ultimately cost them more in fees / employee expense manning those stores.

Perceptions are no where near what you think looking from the outside in.

With new regulations on their way to the HVAC market, the HVAC market as it were is changing.

Nothing is likely to be the same as it was. More than 50% of you voted for change. It's coming IN SPADES.

C'mon man.

What you said is right Austin, but personally I would never trust a contractor from Costco or HD even if they had someone proudly standing displaying a Trane for that matter. Costco is good to buy food in bulk and that's about it. But you got to admit the number of lawsuits Lennox has had for their sub-standard equipment should steer a homeowner away from it. The key is to get a good HVAC tech. Recommendations from friends and those who have a good track record is helpful. Also we all know google/yelp reviews can be rigged beautifully.

It's not just Lennox that gets sued...

Recent settlement reached in Trane / American Standard class action lawsuit... Trane / American Standard Class Action Lawsuit

C'mon man.

Carrier condensing furnace class action lawsuit...

I'm sure I could find more if I "really tried".

I don't know why people think a brand name is going to be a remedy to their problems. I guess it's because you "have to use something" and to get to that point... you have to drink some koolaid of what you think is good... from what you are told.

Hey, go into this room of mirrors. Everything is fine, you'll see once you get inside. LOL.

"Also we all know google/yelp reviews can be rigged beautifully."

How so, please?

Fake reviews are posted on Yelp all the time. They are easy to spot if you look carefully.

"Also we all know google/yelp reviews can be rigged beautifully."

How so, please?

friends, family members, people who work for said company. Use your imagination it's not that difficult.

C'mon man.