there must be a lot of detergent left in the clothes. The 1 ml dispensing isn't doing anything at all. Probably all you can do is running rinses. I did buy Sonett Laundry Rinse on Amazon and use that in place of softener. It claims to help rinse out excess detergent as well - I would believe that is true

2 GPG is soft. You want the softness to be between 4-8, so you are probably in that range based on the other numbers

You can turn the DOS off by pressing the display so that neither color or white is lit. Like I said 1 ml is nothing and quite frankly the machine cant meter out fluid accurately at that amount

I have the 860 and don't see that much sudsing (if at all) unless I add too much oxiclean as a pre rinse. When you start using DOS again bring it back to something normal. I have mine set at 40ml and 30ml.

Thanks, I will try the Sonett to see if it helps. What I really would like to do is turn the TwinDos off while I get the residue issue sorted out. I am able to turn it off for individual cycles, but after several non-TwinDos cycles in a row (even Quick Rinse counts) it starts prompting me to use TwinDos or the TwinDos Care cartridge. I like the machine itself but I really kind of hate TwinDos as it complicates matters. I wish I had bought the next model down instead.

I'm sure there is a lot of detergent left in the clothes, and I really don't use much, like 1-2 TBSP at the very most in a full-size front loader. My Duet drain pump was dying a slow death for nearly three months but Whirlpool could not get a replacement part due to the pandemic. I finally couldn't wait any longer and bought a new washer and dryer set. It's been a real mess!

I would recommend adjusting your detergent amount dispensed as well.

Also, there is a way to increase the water level for rinses in these machines. This would certainly assist in rinsing, but may visibly appear that there are more suds because the level will be higher.

Keep us posted!

Not that this is any help to you, but I too have naturally soft water and rinsing IS a challenge.

I seem to remember threads on this forum where people were having issues such as yours with their new at the time Miele washers. Seems to be the residue left behind from TLs. Eventually, the advise was given that at some point after much time spent on rinse cycles, some suds does not equate to actual detergent residue. I don't know if that helps any, but I hope things improve soon. I'm sure they will. Dorey gives good advise to increase the rinse water level--I think that might be under a hidden program on Miele, i.e., push this button, while pressing that one, scroll down menu, choose water plus, or some such.

I like the DOS part. It doesn't a great job in adjusting detergent to clothes amount. Clothes are clean.

OK, so I have Maximum Rinse Level turned on, and today I upped the TwinDos dosage to 10 ml. When I used TwinDos at 1 ml the system must have thought the TwinDos lines were clogged, because it made me do the TwinDos Care maintenance cycle before I could continue using the machine. Which produced a HUGE amount of suds, ugh. I had to run a Sanitize cycle afterward. I don't want to go through that again.

I think I might like TwinDos better when things are back to normal and I find the right calibration for it. I do like to use several different detergents for different applications, so maybe not a perfect fit, I'll have to see how it goes. It does sound very convenient, though.

SEA SEA, it's good to know that some suds are maybe OK. My old washer was a FL, but it wasn't rinsing properly, so I am probably in the same situation as people coming from a TL, if not worse. I'm trying to get everything as rinsed out as possible before I start washing normally and adding more detergent to the mix. It is a s-l-o-w process but I will just keep at it. Rinse, rinse, repeat.

Thanks, all!

I will mention though, I do remember there being more suds in the first few washes going from TL to FL. Although HE detergents that long ago were JUNK.

Maybe you need to do some laundry stripping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX3J-1AwuWQ

I just can't believe that there is that much detergent residue left in clothes that someone has to rinse and re-rinse and rinse out in a sink. Is it possible that with the cartridge inserted that it is adding a bit of detergent, even if the user has selected not to use it for a cycle?

It's so awful. My Whirlpool Duet FL was fine for 7 years, but then in late October I started getting a long drain fault. I called for service right away and the Whirlpool tech said the drain pump was dying and needed replacing, but the part was on backorder and might take a couple of weeks to come in. I called Whirlpool customer service and they said there was a worldwide shortage of parts and appliances due to the pandemic, and some people had been waiting for weeks/months, but that production had picked up and a shipment was coming in around December 1. I said I'd wait. I didn't hear from them, so I called again after the holidays, and they said the shipment never arrived and they had no idea when it might come. I finally told my husband that I couldn't wait any longer, we HAD to get a new washer. All this for a $150 part.

So during this whole time, the drain pump kept chugging along, but the performance of the machine was declining. By early January, it was obvious that the clothes were not getting clean anymore, and I was getting frequent suds locks despite the fact that I was only using about 1/2 tsp of detergent per load. My towels were getting stiff. It was bad.

I am not getting anywhere trying to rinse things out in the Miele because it uses so little water, even with the rinse water level up all the way. I ran a Sanitize cycle, extra rinse, no detergent last night, and had to do it again this morning because there were STILL suds in the empty machine. The TwinDos is not helping matters because it keeps forcing me to do detergent loads at least once a day, and I am trying not to add more detergent to the machine because it compounds the problem. I hate TwinDos and just want to disable it, but I don't see any way to do that. I have seriously considered returning the machine and getting one without TwinDos, but then the door won't match the door of my dryer, which I like and want to keep because it has the steam function.

I have a Miele tech coming out next week because I have been getting an occasional water intake fault on top of everything else. I'm hoping he can raise the wash water level in the tech settings or maybe turn TwinDos off. If this was my first Miele experience, I would probably be put off the brand, but I have had a Miele washer/dishwashers/vacuums before and really loved them.

I have been running this machine all day, every day for over a week and I'm pulling my hair out.

I think that you would have the same issue with "one model' down". if you have effectively shut off DOS with a 1 ml feed then it really isn't adding anything to the problem.

Like I said, the only time I get suds is when I add some sort of pretreatment - that can get sudsy . There is some "foam" when I was at 40ml nd 30ml but it is well within reason.

The water intake could be the machine, the old valve or the hose being kinked

I am assuming that you don't add extra chemicals - oxi, borax or ...? Also, what cycles are you using everyday

Silveretta, I bet you are never going to be happy. Return it. Get the one model down-it may have a different door than your dryer, but the whole purpose of this is to perform a function that meets your needs. For generations our parents replaced washers and dryers at different times and with different brands. Since the advent of HGTV people now have decided that the appliances are now a decorating statement too. I guess I am a bumpkin cos I just don't think my laundry room needs to be ready for its closeup. (My partner thinks otherwise!)

the 860 can do the same thing as the "one model down" by turning off DOS. You can do that via the display or the tech can do it while they are there. Doubt that will solve the suds problem though. The 660 and the 860 are mechanically pretty close, with the 660 missing a few programs.

sudsing could also be due to more vigorous drum rotation in the Miele causing more soap to be dislodged. Maybe the old washer was just pushing clothes around not causing much agitation

delray, interestingly there is no way to really turn TwinDos off long-term. I called Miele customer support today and they said it can't be done, even by a tech - it's the machine's default. You can bypass it for a handful of cycles in a row by deselecting it on the control panel, but at some point it starts prompting you to use TwinDos and after a couple of prompts, you are compelled to use it or do TwinDos Care. I was surprised to learn it was so inflexible.

I thought I could effectively turn it off by lowering the dosages to 1 ml each, but then when I was prompted to use TwinDos and ran a cycle at 1ml, the machine made me do the TwinDos Care maintenance before I could continue using it. After the maintenance cycle ended I noticed a small amount of suds at the bottom of the drum, so I did a quick rinse, and it produced crazy suds that filled halfway up the drum! I won't be doing that again.

I think you're onto something with the more vigorous rotation vs. my old washer. Even when my Duet was brand new, it was a good washer but didn't clean quite as well as my Miele did. I loved my Miele but I wanted a full-size set for my new house, and the Whirlpool was a better fit for our budget at the time.

I'm not sure what the water intake error is about, whether it's a machine issue or a plumbing issue. The shutoff valve is brand new and the error is only intermittent, and I haven't been able to isolate it to any one cycle or action. The Miele tech will be here on Tuesday so hopefully he can figure it out. I will also ask him if the TwinDos system might be leaking or anything, but I suspect it isn't.

I've been running all different cycles on the machine and only adding detergent when I'm washing something that is not already full of old detergent - like delicates that I was washing by hand while my machine was broken, or things that are new. Just small amounts of Persil Megaperls, Persil sensitive liquid, a little bit of Perwoll or Laundress delicates wash. I always make sure the rinse water is clear before I put anything else in and watch my dosing. When I have been rinsing out detergent residue the only thing I've used is vinegar occasionally, but it didn't seem to make a difference so I stopped.

In any case, I plan to just keep the washer and dryer. This situation is a huge pain in the neck but it's temporary. The TwinDos will be OK once all of the old residue is out.

The 860 is very nice - I liked the addition of the Quick Intense Wash and Single Wash cycles, but my dealer didn't have one in stock and I needed something right away.

armjim that seems kind of harsh, but OK. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to prefer that the finishes match when I am paying $4000 for a washer and dryer.

In any case, I've decided to keep both because while it's aggravating, the residue issue is temporary, and once that is sorted out I'm sure TwinDos will be fine.

SEA SEA, I agree that there's a point where the amount of sudsing is "good enough" and today I got there with a small load of t-shirts. Success!

Now on to the rest... I've decided to just get new towels, though. They were old anyway.

When the Miele tech comes next week I'll ask him to check for a TwinDos leak just in case. You might be right about that.

Silveretta,

It might be good to start over with towels. Good plan.

Really, from what I've read on your thread, it sounds like you know what you are doing and you are doing it well. Maybe it is simply your former Duet was underperforming this much, perhaps more and for longer than you were aware. I think in time, it will sort out and things will be alright.

I'll say this, on those old threads I mentioned about people having this same issue you are (and they too were pulling their hair over it wearing themselves and new washing machines out to get the residue out), the threads just sort of faded away. I'm assuming that is because the issues over time worked themselves out. People tend to write in/speak out when there is a problem and not when things have been solved or improved. Best of luck and I hope you will enjoy your new Miele w/d!

SEA SEA, thanks. I guess I was just hoping there was some miracle product I didn't know about that would magically help expedite the rinsing, and if such a thing existed I knew people here would know about it! Not so easy, unfortunately. And yes, it's likely that my Duet was rinsing poorly even before it slowed down enough to start triggering faults. Ah, well.

I'll keep at it, thanks for your help!

Sure thing sliveretta.

Citric acid? Have you tried that? It sort of cuts through gunk and residue. Mineral build up from water and icky stuff from detergent and body oils/soils that build up. You can get a small amount in the canning section at the grocery store. Should not cost too much. Your machine is small, so a TBS or two would suffice. I would add it to trouble laundry in the wash cycle and see if it helps. If not, you can add it to the softener compartment to see if that helps. It is the ingredient that Lemi Shine uses for their boosters and dishwasher and washing machine cleaners.

Oh! You know what? Delray initially mentioned a product called Sonett Laundry Rinse so I ordered some yesterday. I haven't tried it yet because it won't get here until Saturday but I just looked and it actually has citric acid in it. Maybe that will do the trick. If not I will try the plain citric acid to see if that helps. I used Affresh tablets (same idea) with my old machine but I would not use one of those with colored laundry. I accidentally left a black shirt in the washer one time during a clean cycle and it didn't go well for the shirt! It came out gray and felt like cardboard.

Ok. Sounds good. You can use citric acid in place of Affresh too for the drum cleaning cycle if you wanted to. I'm sure that black shirt was toast after going through a tub clean cycle!

@silveretta Zone 6a MA

You can safely ignore the TwinDOS reminder to use it or run a maintenance cycle. It really only matters if the system has not been used for a long time, like months. Push the OK button when the warning comes on the screen and it will be dismissed.

Enable the option to remember the last used settings. It is called "Memory" under settings. Then if you turn TwinDOS off it will remember that on subsequent cycles. You will have to remember to turn it back on if you want to use it. I have that option enabled and when others use the washer they sometimes forget to turn it on if it was off.

It is possible to turn twinDos off all together in the service menu, but that really should not be needed.

For the water intake fault there are usually two reasons for this. One is there is crud stuck in the little screen filter in the water supply hose. There is a little screen in each end of the water supply hose. Designed to catch big pieces of crud before they enter the washer. Crud can slow the water flow and cause the intake fault warning. The other cause is low water pressure. If you have low water pressure and the tub does not fill quickly enough that can trip the intake fault as well. There is an option under settings called low water pressure. If you enable that the machine will allow for a longer fill time.

While it is possible to have a faulty part, it would be very unlikely on a newish machine.

To test and see if the suds are from your clothes go buy a BRAND NEW towel from the store. You need one anyway right? Turn off TwinDOS and use no detergent. Run the towel on rinse and spin cycle (under more programs). Observe if there are any suds. If there are no suds then you have confirmed there is detergent build up in your other clothes. If there are minor suds then these can be caused by simple air bubbles in the water. Make a note of how many there are and that is your normal "Clean" water. Another way to test is to fill a cup or glass jar half full of water, seal it and then shake it up for 30 seconds or minute. Note how many suds, if any, are produced. This will give you an idea of how many suds are generated in your "normal" clean water.

Once you have a known clean towel you can run a few cycles. Bump the Dose for agent 1 up in 5ML increments. You will know when you have reached the correct amount for your water when the water rinses clean, but you have suds during the main wash. You can always go a little over and then back off when you notice more than your "normal" amount of suds in the last rinse.

Citric acid would be un-needed if you have really soft water. Its main use is to remove built up mineral scale from the outer drum, heating element and any parts and hoses wash liquor is circulated through. If you have really soft water or a water softener then there is no mineral scale to build up. Even in REALLY hard water areas you should not have a ton of mineral scale inside the washer as long as your detergent is dosing properly. The detergent has water softening agents. As long as the right dose is used any minerals will be bound up and go down the drain.

It is also not possible for the TwinDOS detergent to leak into the washer. The bottles are located below the lowest part of the drum. They are pumped into the drum at the correct time and in the proper dose. Dose is determined from the amount of time the pump runs. The pumps have a known amount that they dispense each minute. So if you set a particular dose the pump is run for the amount of time to deliver that dose. See the video below for a quick overview of how it works:

Luna, thank you, this is all GREAT information! I'm glad to know I can ignore the TwinDos prompts longer than I initially thought. I wish there was a way to make the prompts less frequent, but oh well.

I have turned on the Memory function, and that will be very useful to help me remember to leave TwinDos off and add an extra rinse. Thanks for the tip.

As for the water intake error, I'm hoping it's just a bit of crud on the screen. I had that happen with my old Miele washer once when my town was working on a water main in front of my building, but that time it was enough crud to block the water intake entirely. My current town is constantly working to replace miles and miles of 100-year old cast iron pipes in my neighborhood, so we get a lot of crud here that our sediment filter doesn't always catch. I'm hoping it's a simple solution and not a pipe buildup-related issue that is causing low water pressure, because we deal with that, too. But at least the Miele has the low water pressure setting, which is good to know.

So I did the two tests you mentioned. I did the water shaking test with a mason jar and after 45 seconds of shaking, there were no suds, just a few bubbles from the agitation. Then I did the towel test with a 24-pack of new washcloths I happened to have in the house - just a rinse cycle, no detergent. I didn't expect to see any suds at all, but surprisingly I did (photo attached). I tried to make sure the washer was suds-free before I put the washcloths in, and I did a rinse and spin cycle with the drum empty right beforehand. I watched that empty cycle and only saw agitation bubbles. I know most of the time new textiles come with some sort of fabric finish on them, so maybe the suds are from that?

I'll do what you said and go up 5 ml at a time to calibrate TwinDos. I wish I knew exactly how hard my water is because I know that is a factor. The town says it is 2 GPG at the source, I had a plumber measure it at 14 GPG last year, and I did two different types of tests on my own this week that came up with 4 GPG and 9 GPG. Plus the little test strip that came with the Miele said it's soft. It can't be that hard because I don't typically need much detergent.

Anyway, the rinsing is coming along. The worst of it was the first three wash loads I did when I first got the machine, before I realized I had old residue on everything. I used TwinDos with the soft water setting of 48/36 ml, and this was WAY too much. Plus, two of those cycles faulted out and I had to restart the program, so it added more detergent because I didn't think to turn TwinDos off. Whoops. At any rate, I have thrown a bunch of things away and am making progress with the things I want to keep.

Thanks so much for your help!

Many people are shocked or don‘t believe it when you tell them their clothes are loaded with soap residue from their previous washer. Once all of your clothes are free of residue I think you will be very happy with TwinDos. It will keep you from over dosing and buildup In your clothes. Proper warm and hot washes that actually get to the promised temp will help a lot with being able to get the best performance from a detergent.

Is it any wonder so many people have “allergies” or ”skin conditions” with certain detergents? It is most likely just poor washing in cold water, poor rinsing and over dosing.

Hang in there.

That makes a lot of sense. Incidentally, my husband has eczema and he's been in a really bad flare this winter, the worst that he's ever had. I'm sure the dry winter air has a lot to do with it, but the timeframe does correspond to when my old washer stopped draining properly. I had wondered if the two things might have been related. Now that I can wash things properly, hopefully his skin will start feeling better soon.

Thanks again!

One point about the soft Twin Dos setting mentioned in the manual. I think that setting is referring to what soft water might be in Europe, but not necessarily in the USA.

The soft setting in the manual is way too much detergent for almost any place in the USA. My water is about 14 GPG which is supposed to be medium-hard according to my water utility and I only have my dosage set to Phase 1 = 16, Phase 2=15, and that could probably be adjusted lower and still be OK.

One thing I have noticed with many washers sold today is that they wash with detergent, but skimp with the rinsing process. They either don't use enough water in a rinse, only do two rinses with no way of doing a third rinse as an extra rinse, or they omit spins after each rinse which would help to wring out suds and dirt from clothes after the rinse.

The result is people with clean looking clothes but clothes that are still full of detergent.

Jerrod, I'm sure you're right about European vs. US water softness. I also live in the US so I tend to think in ounces, tablespoons, etc., and it never even occurred to me that 48 ml was over three tablespoons, way more than I ever use! I was excited to use my new machine and I didn't think at all about the conversion. Whoops.

Thanks for sharing your water hardness and TwinDos settings, that helps!

@EM Rod

Drop me an email I lost your address

Jerrod

Vze25zrc@gmail.com

Hi Jerrod,

Just sent it to you.

Hola, escribo por si me podéis ayudar, llevo 4 días con mi lavadora miele wwi860 y desde primer momento me da fallo el twindos, al coger de fase 1 hace un ruido y cuando le hago el mantenimiento pone detergente insuficiente, alquien me puede decir porque dará ese fallo?