axh411

Non-permitted load bearing wall removal

axh411
6 days ago

We are first time home buyers in the process of buying a house built in 1994. Upon inspections, we learned that the house used to have an extra bedroom and that a wall (most likely load bearing) on the first floor of the 2-story house was removed at some point. No permits have been found/provided. The floor is continuous and in rough shape leading us to believe the wall was not removed recently. The inspector pointed out a slight slope in the floor towards the outer edge of the house (seemed almost undetectable to us but I trust it's there) and overall didnt seem too worried about the integrity of the house. No cracks were visible and no doors were problematic and foundation seems okay.
Both the inspector and realtor don't seem overly concerned and said a support beam can be added at our own expense (guessing 5k-10k? not sure). Hot sellers market doesn't really leave us with much negotiation power.
If the house "seems okay" with minor floor sloping....and we are prepared to spend 5-10k to fix it....does it seem reasonable to proceed? Or is there reason to believe major hidden problems may exist? Trying to figure out how often this kind of thing happens/causes buyers remorse. Is it worth trying to get a structural engineer out to look at it?
Thanks!!! We would appreciate any insight.

Comments (63)

  • maifleur03
    5 days ago

    For something this important pay the extra and get the report in writing. Memory of a conversation is just that and like all memories change. The written report should cover things other than the lack of the beam so make certain both you and the inspector understand what is being looked at. It could also help you develop a series of steps to turning the house into what you want.


    My husband accepted a verbal one when I was not there after a crack showed up in the kitchen ceiling. I now know why the crack is there something that the structural engineer should have found.

  • axh411
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    Okay!! Awesome advice! Written it is! He is a licensed structural engineer. Seems like it could definitely be valuable to have everything documented.

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  • Jim Mat
    5 days ago

    What state? I ask because in California, there are no “licensed structural engineers”



  • axh411
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    Oh sorry if I phrased that incorrectly out of ignorance. He has a PE (and SE on his linkedin) after his name. "Bachelors in civil engineering and a Masters in engineering with structural emphasis." I'm in Oregon. Hopefully that sounds appropriate

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    5 days ago

    @maifleur03 I know exactly what you mean, have family in LA and I talk to a few contractors from around there and I'm just wondering how they put up with all that BS... you should move to Jersey, things a bit down to earth around here, and only once in a while, you come across someone who is looking to retire from one visit. :-)

  • Jim Mat
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Yes, A CE with a PE! Awesome.


    I live in California, for a few decades, trash collectors were titled engineers.

  • maifleur03
    5 days ago

    GN Builders the man was a structural engineer by his card and not as such an inspector. My husband worked with the engineering department and it was a recommendation from them to use that firm. I do not think he wanted to but there were too many favors to the company attached. It was not worth at that time to do more than state he was wrong. I also know what is required to change out a structural support beam that part of the house rests on. This house will be a tear down when I go to a nursing home.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 days ago

    Verbal from an engineer for $600.00. What crap. Make him put a stamp on it, or get a decent framer for a six pack and a pizza. Geesh.

  • catinthehat
    5 days ago

    Jim, sorry to be a pain but California is one of those states that do in fact have licensed structural engineers. They are not required for this type of assessment but the licensing is there.

  • mrpandy
    5 days ago

    Given the information you provided, I'd walk away. Maybe it's just me, but I'd always be worried about that wall. However, if you like it that much and it's really priced low enough to cover an engineer's inspection, potential beam and all the other repairs, it could be worth it. (Sorry, really not very useful advice)

  • axh411
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    All advice and comments have been useful! I am so grateful. I'll wait and see what comes out of the engineer's inspection...

  • homechef59
    5 days ago

    Good move to get an engineering report. First, it will ease your mind. Second, if the report shows deflection and deficiency, you will have evidence to support a further reduction in price due to the need to repair to code. I believe it will be money well spent.

  • Cherie
    5 days ago

    I’d walk away unless you really love the property and are prepared to deal with unexpected surprises.


    I hired a structural engineer for my home inspection walkthrough and his visual inspection revealed nothing that I couldn’t see or check on my own. There was a disclaimer his assessment was based on his visual inspection and he wouldn’t be liable for what was behind the walls. TBH it was a waste of money. Save yourself $600. My home inspection report for $300 was really valuable. The inspector listed out all the maintenance and repairs the seller should do. The seller agreed to all of them and adjusted the sales price for the items they could not complete before closing.


    Sloping floors could be a sign the foundation is sinking. I forget what the acceptable tolerance is.


    You can go to the basement to see if there are support posts and a beam directly under that missing wall. That's usually a good indication if the wall is load bearing.


    Get a laser level, throw up a horizontal laser line around the room and then measure different spots around the room to find the high and low spots in the floor. I would also check every spot under that missing wall to see if the upper level is sinking. It probably is sinking after 16 years unsupported. It doesn't look like they did it properly from that sloppy wall repair.

  • maifleur03
    5 days ago

    The slight slope may also indicate that there used to be a floor drain in that area. This house has been added on several times and where the floor drain is located is close to where the old outside wall was. If you have access look to see if the floor in that area shows any indication of it. One of the indications may be an area that is worse appearing than the surrounding area. Since it, depending on the area, was probably covered with a metal plate rust will allow moisture to seep through it damaging the surface.

  • isabellagracepan
    5 days ago

    I would walk away. That looks like a big headache. Who knows what else they have done wrong...

  • axh411
    Original Author
    4 days ago

    My realtor sent me photos from the old listing when the current seller bought the house 16 years ago..confirms the wall has been gone at least since 2004. Engineer is scheduled for tomorrow...I have no idea what to expect. Do they just visually inspect or actually bring levels and tools and take measurements??

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    4 days ago

    Oh, a structural engineer may bring a level. I met one with a 3 footer in the crawlspace of a home supposedly sliding down a hill. Laughable.

  • bry911
    4 days ago

    I make my hay buying houses with inexpensive problems that scare others away. The drywall work is tragic but the beam shows some signs of competence.


    So there is a beam there, we can see the bottom of the beam. The beam was sunken into the joists, which is evidence of the joists being cut back and attached with joist hangers. That is not something that DIY remodelers typically do.


    Were I looking at this house, I would grab some string and check for sag. If the beam isn't sagging then it has been carrying the load well for at least 16 years. The house probably isn't going to fall down tomorrow. From my understanding beams generally don't go from 16 years of carrying the load well to breaking without ever sagging.


    In my opinion, buy the area. An inexpensive dated or somewhat neglected home in a good area is a double bargain. You are going to get both area and update appreciation. Having said that, I have some experience doing that and it is OK to want a house that requires no work if that is your thing.


  • Cherie
    4 days ago

    String works but that takes time to set up when a laser is a push of a button. My laser now lives on my husband's camera tripod. This is how I would check under the beam for sagging.




  • bry911
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    With respect, I have a Topcon laser and I would still use string. I don't know your situation but getting a good beam high off the ground is hardly easier than using string for many of us. String is also a bit cheaper.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    4 days ago

    @bry911 Couldn't agree with you more. People see a sagging floor and they condemn the house. The majority of cases involving sagging floors have nothing to do with foundation, and in some cases, the repair will involve a minimally invasive solution to solve the issue, and yes in some cases it takes a bit more work but not to a point that it will break your bank.

    Any experienced GC can determine the issue with a simple inspection.


    Going back a few years, got a call from a realtor asking if I wanna buy a house with a structural foundation issue. (All realtors I know, they know I'm the 1st one to call when they have something that nobody wants :-) )

    She told me the house was under contract a few times during the course of 2 years but people walked away from it right after the home inspection, etc.

    House (was an estate sale) originally was listed for 329k, they dropped the price by 80k over a 2 year period because kids fed up with it and wanted to get rid of it, now it was 249k.

    I go out there, she takes me to the back of the house and the floor of the backroom is slanted, you can slide on it...

    The Realtor tells me that everyone walks away the minute they see that...


    What previous owners did, they turned the back porch into living space to add a bedroom, and everyone who is familiar with porches on older homes, most had T&G flooring, and the floor is slanted for the water run-off. I go in the basement, sure enough, there is a crawlspace and they did a foundation to enclose the bottom of the porch, and by the way, you can tell the foundation was done by a masonry contractor, no permits but it was done the right way, the only thing they never bothered to level the floor, they insulated, put a layer of plywood and put the carpet.


    I told her I take it for 175k no inspections, and that I will drop her a check for 5k to show I'm serious and we can close as fast as tomorrow or the minute they ready. She said they will never go for it but will let them know, I said ok, let me know and left. I got to the corner she called me and said you got a deal.

    If someone else purchased that house and hired a contractor, that slanted floor issue was solved in a few hours, we took flooring off, subfloor off, sister up all the joists, new subfloor, by lunchtime it was ready for carpet.

    Most people walked away from that house simply because of that floor issue, I end up getting that house 400k+ below the market value.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    4 days ago

    The problem with most structural issues is that you don't know what you've got to deal with until you open up the structure a bit. Depending on what you find, you may need to open it up some more. Kudos to the OP's inspector for identifying the issue and recommending additional evaluation. That way the OP can make an informed purchase decision.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    4 days ago

    The problem is, that you cannot open anything up because you not the owner of the house, and not many sellers will let you start cutting things up.

    Even home inspectors, most will not move/open anything up and just say "based on a visual inspection because they couldn't get access".

    Also if there is an issue structural or not, some minor issues they will explain, some other issues they will note "should be inspected/repaired by a licensed contractor". If they notice a major issue they will suggest "should be further evaluated by an engineer"


    So when we get to evaluate inspection reports ( and I get them about 3 a month on the average) and we go out there 100% of the time evaluation is based on your experience, the same goes for any engineer. Sure you can bring a level, bring a probe camera and try to get into places which cant be seen with a naked eye, etc. and with all that as you can do 100% of the time your evaluation is right on the money.


    That said "Structural Engineer" is a bit an "overrated term" Yes, you need them to calculate a load, design a repair in some cases where architects don't want to be involved, etc. Other than that when it comes to residential construction everything is pretty much straight forward and any experienced contractor can pinpoint the problem and make the repairs.


    As it goes to the ridiculous fees that being mentioned here that some pay/charge. Frankly speaking, you can put any price on anything you want as much as you want it doesn't mean you will get it, but there is a sucker born every day who will pay it.

    Most of the time when someone is giving a "high rate" is when they don't really wanna get involved, so they will throw this ridiculous number and if they can get it they will go for it, because not many structural engineers dealing with residential evaluation, and the guys who do, they easy going and as I said before, you get a guy for a 175-250 for a verbal evaluation, they will tack another buck on it if you want something in writing.

    Sure you have a few who want 300 before they hang up the phone and another 500 when they arrive... At the same time, you have a few who will go out just to leave their office to get some fresh air and they will do it for a nice lunch with a nice bottle of wine, especially nowadays lol.



  • bry911
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    I don't have enough information to comment on the sloping floor. As I said before, I would defer to the professionals who have actually seen the house.

    My comment is mostly aimed at the number of people who are saying "walk away" from the limited information we have. From the information we have there is no reason to walk away from this house. No one even asked about the price.

    I am always amazed by the number of people who will walk away from an appropriately priced home with some issues only to pay top dollar for a house with a kitchen they hate. It makes no sense to pass up a home that likely needs $25k in repairs and $50k in updates, only to pay $100,000 more for a similar home in perfect condition and start planning a $50,000 kitchen remodel.

    Don't get me wrong I love those people, I just don't understand their logic.


    No engineer is going to give you an unqualified report on a structural issue they can't see. So I personally wouldn't bother with an engineer for the beam alone.

  • lyfia
    4 days ago

    Well to me it looks like there is at least some support there with the beam that is visible. Whether it is adequate or not is another story and hopefully the structural engineer can help you figure that out and if that area isn't the problem for the slope help you determine what is.


    I wouldn't walk away over it based on that it isn't the current owner that had the work done and of course that I had the money to fix whatever structural issue is causing the sloping.

  • Lyndee Lee
    4 days ago

    The buyer has stated it is a seller's market and they have already had offers rejected on multiple homes. They like the location of this house and have funds available to do repair work. Why walk away over an issue they didn't even see until an inspector pointed it out? There are no perfect houses in any market and only a few really great ones in a hot market. Even if the beam is sagging a bit, the house is obviously livable. I would be more concerned if the inspector had found a laundry list of issues with dangerous electrical problems, water leaks, rot and water damages.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    4 days ago

    All we can say about the adequacy of a beam that hasn't failed in a particular number of years is just that--it hasn't failed in a particular number of years. We don't know under what conditions it will fail, we don't know how it is supported at the ends, we don't know if there are piers or a girder under the supporting posts--if any, we don't know how the joists are connected to it, etc. While a structural engineer's assessment will indeed be limited, they are likely to have some minimally invasive tools (e.g., wall scanner, fiber optic camera) in addition to visual inspection that will help them size up of the existing conditions. When we do investigative work, we're often able to carefully remove a piece of shoe mould, drill a small hole and use our fiber optic camera to see inside joist spaces. Then reinstall the shoe mould with no repairs needed.


    For those who prefer a more empirical approach, you could put the pool table up on the 2nd floor above the beam and invite all your son's friends over for a party. Just check with Jake from State Farm first....

  • bry911
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    All we can say about the adequacy of any hidden structural element is that hasn't failed in a particular number of years is just that--it hasn't failed in a particular number of years.

    That doesn't mean your house is going to fall down tomorrow. Possibility should not be confused with probability. It is simply silly to pretend that a long history of adequacy should be given consideration only equal to a remote possibility of failure.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    4 days ago

    We don't know how the existing use of the spaces and the associated load on whatever currently serves as a beam compares with the OP's intended use(s). If the movers stage uncle Henry's lifetime collection of National Geographic Magazines on the 2nd floor on moving day, that's not the time to figure out it's not adequate for that purpose.


    Structural issues can involve potential life safety issues, too. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The OP will be well served to consult with a professional structural engineer. As Austin Powers might say "that's their bag, baby!"

  • bry911
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    Charles Ross Homes - While I generally respect your opinion, in this instance it is all red herring. The OP is making a decision about buying a house THAT HE INTENDS TO PROPERLY REPAIR.

    The value of an engineer to that repair is not in question, the value of an engineer to the purchase decision is. Whether the house will eventually collapse isn't in question, whether the house will collapse before the OP can make timely repairs is...

    There are no giant red flags for me in that picture and I have some experience dealing with properties in similar conditions.

    With respect to the beam alone, I believe an engineer will better serve the OP when he can look behind the drywall. In my opinion, the OP is spending money now only to have to spend it again when he owns the property.


    It is absolutely fine to feel differently about the value of an engineer before purchasing, however, if you are going to start posting about the house collapsing in the next 30 days, I think you also need to acknowledge that is an extremely remote possibility.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    4 days ago

    @Charles Ross Homes I can see someone suffering from a "house failure phobia" they would buy a house and start cutting everything up to make sure it was built right and nothing will fail in the future. Nobody does that if there is a visual issue you address it, if nothing is there, you don't worry about it.

    As the pool table goes, you right, you don't know what people do nor you can't predict, you can easily exceed 1st or 2nd-floor design load and you end up with a bouncy floor or floor failure.

    As an example, this happened a while back in one of the houses that were rented to kids from college.

    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/21549806/new-years-eve-party-where-floor/

    I was in that house after it happened, what they didn't tell you, the landlord got tired of replacing the carpet, so he put underlayment and tile on top of the 2 layers of the original flooring. The floor was bouncy, to begin with from all that weight, now you got kids throwing a party, who knows how many kids they had up there jumping and going nuts and there you go.

    I'm sure whoever designed that house could foresee that someone will do something like this or someone will have god knows how many kids dancing and jumping...The architect probably turned in his grave if he saw that LOL.

    But under the normal conditions that house is good for another 100 years.

    Or this deck builder could he foresee someone would put a hot tub up there.



    As inspections go, I don't know how many inspections you do, but I do on the average 20-30 home inspection report or structural evaluations a year and I never remove base-shoe molding or anything to get where I need to be with my camera... 1st of all, base shoe or any molding could be up to 16' long so removing the entire run of molding which was calked and painted, to inspect a few bays makes no sense.

    Then you have to clean it up, remove all the caulk from it. scrape the base molding, re-nail, fill nail holes, re-caulk, etc. and I'm not even touching if this molding snaps and breaks.

    2nd of all using a drill and drill into the unknown in someone's house so you could stick a camera in there, I would never do that or take a chance with that and never heard anyone doing that... well maybe some homeowner who doesn't know any better.

    I can get into any area of the house and I mean any area with my camera to inspect what I need to inspect and after I'm done, you will never know I was there and where and how I got in there and I don't have a sophisticated camera as you do, my camera only 1/4" in diameter, can be used in water, anywhere, it takes HD images, video, can turn view angles, see around corners and it hasn't failed me yet.



    So Charles, knowing how much you like me and how you cannot wait to read my next post :-), please take my friendly and humble advice from one professional to another never use a drill in someone's house when doing inspections, there are many other ways to get where you need to be and the last thing you need is to "nick" something or drill into it.


  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    4 days ago

    @bry911,


    If the buyer is genuinely interested in purchasing the home and the seller is genuinely interested in selling it, knowing there is a deficiency, the I think it's reasonable to accommodate a structural engineer's inspection. A couple of 3/8" holes for a fiber optic camera to have a look behind the drywall and a couple of non-invasive wall scans are a reasonable accommodation in my opinion (my team did one of these last week with a structural engineer in tow.) Then the OP can make both an informed decision with respect to the purchase and jump start the necessary plans, permit, and structural work which they'll likely want to have completed prior to move in. The OP gets the benefit of advice from a credentialed professional, and there's no wasted time and no wasted expense.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    4 days ago

    Charles, this is all true, but you need to get sellers' permission to do all that, to bring a bunch of people and start poking holes in your ceilings, etc. in the real world doesn't work that way.

    Even a home inspector will not move an item to see behind if something is in the way. Some sellers here you be lucky if they let you bring a contractor in just to look at something... Some don't even let the buyers in to measure blinds.

    Like Bry said, maybe where you at people are different and let you do everything, not around here. Here is NY/NJ here you move a $10 chair and leg falls off, now you have a $500 antique item that grandma left and they will make sure to collect that LOL.

  • bry911
    3 days ago

    "A couple of 3/8" holes for a fiber optic camera to have a look behind the drywall and a couple of non-invasive wall scans are a reasonable accommodation in my opinion (my team did one of these last week with a structural engineer in tow)."


    First, I have never met an owner who would allow a couple of 3/8" holes. If I ever do find someone who allows it, I am going to jail for beating their realtor senseless on general principle. Surely, no realtor on the planet is that stupid and I guarantee you their broker isn't.

    That is the dumbest thing I have ever even heard, you would skyrocket the seller's duty through the roof. The house would become unsellable if you allowed someone to drill holes to look at a beam and they find a problem. Who is stupid enough to do that?


    Next, you are destroying value. I am sure you offer wall scanning services for free and all, but over here they charge for that stuff. I am a numbers guy... when you have a 90% chance of having a $5,000 problem and a 10% chance of having a $10,000 problem, it makes absolutely no sense to spend $2,500 to determine which. Especially if neither one would change your purchase decision.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    3 days ago

    @bry911,


    Our company's projects are at the higher end of the spectrum. With respect to our investigative work, we perform a broad range of due diligence during the design phase for folks looking to remodel homes--which includes homes they own and homes they are considering for purchase. I've been a practicing engineer for 40 years--35 as a licensed P.E.-- and no, our services are not free.


    I don't know what it's like where you live, but in our area architects, engineers, and remodelers have considerable backlogs, as do plan reviewers and code officials. If the buyer is genuinely interested in the home and prepared to make the necessary repairs, what's the issue with figuring out what is necessary and getting on with getting the plans produced, approved and the project permitted?


    We may not agree on the approach, but the OP has the benefit of a variety of perspectives and can choose what works for them. Plus you and I have the benefit of GN Builder's insights to fill in the voids in our own respective educations....

  • bry911
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    "If the buyer is genuinely interested in the home and prepared to make the necessary repairs, what's the issue with figuring out what is necessary and getting on with getting the plans produced, approved and the project permitted?"

    The OP doesn't own the house! What is wrong spending thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars to evaluate and produce plans for a house that you don't own? I think the answer is rather obvious...

    As a general rule, never spend money buying a house that is not capable of changing your mind about buying the house. There are several reasons for this... deals fall through, unscrupulous sellers raise the price, etc.

    What are you going to do when a slumlord tells you that he needs another $20k on the house you just spent $15k producing plans for? Do you drop $50k on attorneys, walk away, or pay?

    This is especially true on the lower end of the housing market. I have been buying rental properties and had sellers just not show up for the closing. I have had sellers refuse to move out unless I paid for a moving company to move them.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    3 days ago

    @bry911,


    Developing plans and the necessary structural engineering for a simple beam of the type in question in our area probably equals a couple of thousand dollars-- not tens of thousands as you've suggested. Architects, engineers, and builders don't get to bill by the hour what attorneys do. We could debate the value added in a different forum.


    If the approval lead time for plans and permits is six to eight weeks--which is not unreasonable--then the OP's interest is well served by jumpstarting the process so the physical work can be completed quickly after closing.


    I am guilty of assuming the home is one of a quality the OP actually wants to live in--not a slum. If you want to debate what happens at the low end of the housing market, I'll need to plead nolo contendere as I work exclusively at the high end of the market. But you might find a kindred spirit in the person of GN Builders. I think they operate closer to that end of the construction food chain.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    Charles, you a piece of work, I think you need to get off your high horse once in a while and come down to planet earth.

    We do the same here that you just listed, and we not talking about doing investigative work for clients who own homes and looking to remodel.

    We talking about doing investigative work in places your clients don't own, going in there and drilling holes, removing moldings, etc. No seller or seller's realtor would let anyone do that unless of course they, not playing with a full deck.

    "I don't know what it's like where you live, but in our area, architects, engineers, and remodelers have considerable backlogs, as do plan reviewers and code officials."

    If you think for a second that people in the industry from different states are less experienced or less knowledgeable in comparison to you or anyone in the state you in... you need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    "If the buyer is genuinely interested in the home and prepared to make the necessary repairs, what's the issue with figuring out what is necessary and getting on with getting the plans produced, approved, and the project permitted?"

    Do you really need to ask that question? You know this doesn't make any sense at all, especially coming from a guy like you with all the education and experience you listed... no person in their right mind would start drawing plans and do the planning, etc before they own the house. Anyone in the business knows nothing is sold until the closing and money exchange hands, until that day comes anything can happen.


  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    3 days ago

    Good night, Greg.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    3 days ago

    Good night Charles.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    3 days ago

    Greg,

    If you're having trouble sleeping, here's a link you might find helpful:


    https://www.penguin.com/static/pages/cig/toptips/sleeptips.php



  • bry911
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    Developing plans and the necessary structural engineering for a simple beam of the type in question in our area probably equals a couple of thousand dollars-- not tens of thousands as you've suggested

    I am struggling to believe that you only charge $2,000 to do all the things that you said the OP should do. Drill holes for scoping, scan walls with an engineer in tow, begin plans, begin permitting, etc.

    Even if that were the case, it is $2,000 spent on a property that you don't own, spent towards planning when you do own the house. Just because it is less money at risk doesn't mean it is at any less risk. I am saying eight hundred dollars for an inspection from an engineer is probably a waste because he can't open the wall and your rebuttal is that a couple of thousand (which is like more than $800) is a great idea. Sure...

    I submit that you are simply far removed from this type of home. I further submit that were the OP to call you for these services, he would not get a timely appointment. I am a couple of hours west of you, but I know prices in the Williamsburg area OK... I doubt very seriously that a beam replacement like this would even get a callback from someone offering these types of services in the inspection period.

    Architects, engineers, and builders don't get to bill by the hour what attorneys do. We could debate the value added in a different forum.

    I am a college professor...

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    3 days ago

    @bry911,


    Right, College professor, and accounting expert, and legal expert and woodworking expert and engineering expert and ....


    I think you made a bad call in waiving off an engineer's evaluation. I'm a P.E. and designing, building and remodeling homes is what I do for my day job. We can agree to disagree and folks can decide what they will, professor.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    3 days ago

    LOL Charles, I think you the one with sleeping issues, people usualy go to bed after they say good night, I just answered you to be polite.

    Now you back with more of your nonsense and posting some weird links which I'm sure you been reading and they must help you sleep since you recommend them to others.

    Try to relax, go drink some warm milk, some say it helps, and if someone is there, ask them to tuck you in and read you a story. :-)

    Now it's time to say good night!


  • Cherie
    3 days ago

    From your description, I think he only measured the distance between the ceiling and floors. I would have expected him to create a level line and measured the distance between the level line and ceiling and level line and floors to determine which of the two were unlevel.



    I wouldn’t pay him if you specifically hired him to determine if the beam was sagging. Because right now you still don’t know.


    Hopefully the seller is not aware of how to do their own check if the beam is sagging if you bring this in negotiations and they will rely on your report. But if I was the seller, I would check on my own if you told me you were reducing your offer to fix the beam. $10 on string and a string level or $100 on a laser vs a $25K+ reduction. It’s worth it for them to check.


    It’s about $25K+ to replace load bearing beams in my area. Contractors don’t want to take on small jobs. They want $100K+ jobs. You may want to call around and get quotes before you out an offer.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    3 days ago

    Good, I'm glad you got everything straightened out and now you know what you have and what you dealing with.

    As $1,100 goes, it needed to be done, now you know what needs to be done, the beam issue can always be corrected, and I hope the sellers work with you and give you credit, or whatever and you get the house you like.

    Look at it this way, you going to buy a used car you going to spend a few grand on it, you take it to a mechanic and you spend $100 to have it checked out. Now you buying something that worth a few hundred grand so it's worth spending $1,100 to have a piece of mind.


    As to what happened here last night...nothing new... Once in a while, you come across one of "those types" that could never be wrong and smarter than anyone else...and to prove that they will use anything and question anyone's knowledge just to make themselves come out smelling like a rose. LOL

    So when when "someone" got called out and was told that it didn't make any sense to what he was saying... He couldn't accept that and couldn't fall asleep.

    He finally found a website that helps people sleep or whatever he had saved in his bookmarks that he been reading before bedtime, he finally went to bed.

    I'm sure he feels much better today :-)


    Good luck to you and hope everything works out.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    3 days ago

    @bry911 You don't need to explain yourself, good advice based on personal experience, knowledge, and most importantly common sense.

    Most people here are down to earth some seek help, some try to help others, do their part, and move on, and at times you have a disagreement or discussion and it's all good.


    There was no reason for this comment "Right, College professor, and accounting expert, and legal expert and woodworking expert and engineering expert and ...." and was thrown at you simply because you called him out and explained that he made no sense to what he said... and he couldn't accept that.

    So this was nothing more than a little "tantrum" just to shows you that you don't know any better and of course, he had to throw in that he is this and that with a few picture frames on the wall of his accomplishments and who are you to call him out.

    I'm not a shrink but I would call that type of behavior nothing more than a "self-righteous" personality disorder.


    I think I'm done here...Happy Weekend everyone! ;-)


  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    3 days ago

    "It’s about $25K+ to replace load bearing beams in my area."


    Two guys could replace a load bearing beam in a day at the most. Not a thousand dollars in materials.

  • bry911
    2 days ago

    "It’s about $25K+ to replace load bearing beams in my area. Contractors don’t want to take on small jobs. They want $100K+ jobs."


    My contractor jumped at the chance to have a profitable one day job since there is always a day here and there where something is delayed. In my experience most do.


    He is going to have to do more work than the OP is asking for and is not going to charge even $10k. All prices are local, I guess.