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hunzi

New hvac, erv, & makeup air

5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

We are planning a new HVAC system. Our home is almost 140yrs old, 4000sqft conditioned space, - and has no ducts currently and we are keeping the hot water heating system -huge cast iron boiler & cast iron radiators.

We are focused on not just cooling but improved air quality. We are planning to add an AC compressor & air handler, merv16, UV, Aprilaire 800 steam humidifier, and an Aprilaire 8100 ERV which will pull its exhaust/return air from the kitchen (and possibly 2nd-floor hall) and supply into the HVAC return. (Air handler & all air quality equipment are in the attic (conditioned space), working top-down to cool 1st & 2nd floors.)

Yes, we are an old house, and that usually means fairly drafty, but we are 3xbrick masonry with air sealed spray foamed attic and we've been working to tighten up windows & doors, so we have to assume that we are or will be at least as tight as modern construction.

My question is - we plan to add a big kitchen exhaust vent on the NEXT upgrade project (kitchen!) - not sure exactly which one yet, but assume a 600-1200cfm Vent-a-Hood. I don't want it to backdraft an open wood-burning fireplace or that big cast iron boiler or the radon system every time it kicks on.

Will the ERV handle the makeup air? Is there something we should plan for now?

Or will we need a separate makeup air system directly in the kitchen (and can worry about it when we do the kitchen)? If so, are we losing all the advantage of adding the ERV if we are sucking in 1200cfm of -20 degree dry Nebraska winter air or 105 degrees humid Nebraska summer air?

Stuff like this keeps me up at night! ;-)

Hunzi aka Keeper of the Shrine to Our Lady of Perpetual Renovation

Comments (3)

  • 5 years ago

    With a home that age with multi stories and 4K sq feet there's urgent need for a ventilation specialest working alongside hvac contractor at planning stage. All hvac contractors should have a working relationship with one or more ventilation specialest but sadly only about 5% do. It is an added cost over and above the install but IMO return's it 10 fold over the life of system. Between the two contractors they will answer the questions posed here. Meanwhile I'll give my opinions that you might weigh for yourself and ask your contractor about.

    The kitchen vent-a-hood and make-up air is more effective and efficient as stand alone. Chance are the vent contractor does kitchen vent installs so they can advise while looking at hvac. I've seen many commercial kitchens where make-up air is pulled in around hood and range where it never leaves before exhusted along with smoke,heat and odors. The kitchen is usually warmer than one might desire but meet's requirements for working in. Energy recovery can be incorperated with vent and make-up system so that kitchen stay's comfortable and little to no conditioned air is wasted. The latter set up is what you need rather than the whole house Aprilaire 8100 ERV.

    Getting conditioned air to and from all corners without objectional structrial alterations is always a challange where home doesn't already have ducts in place. Sometimes one or more Mini-Splits to supliment central air look's and work's better than poor and/or unatractive duct runs. I have occasionally solved this with smaller ducts and booster fan inside (especially true for return air). One detail I'm unwavering on is twice or more filter square inches than mfgr's suggested. Doing that alow's more effecient filters without determental effect on air flow. Minimunm of Merv 8 year round and Merv 10-12 at peak of pollen season. The reason i don't suscribe to automated filteration is they breakdown or malfunction with occupants knowing until system is full of dirt that must be cleaned up.

    Hunzi thanked klem1
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Klem1, Thank you! Ok, since I expect I need to find the ventilation specialist myself to consult with HVAC - who/where do I look for someone like this? Are we talking about a kitchen specialist? As in I should find someone who sells/knows Vent-a-Hood? Or am I calling someone from April Aire?

    The goal is both whole-house air quality and making sure we don't backdraft anything when we add that exhaust vent in the kitchen. A separate system for the kitchen is possible, but a lot more challenging with 14in thick brick walls - the only external wall I can vent out of in the kitchen is about 13 ft long, and getting very busy -

    it has

    1) our electrical meter

    2) a transfer switch for the generator

    3) a large 4x7 ft window

    4) 2 conduits running electrical from basement to attic (because there is no path inside)

    5) a 3x4 downspout

    6) HVAC condenser lines up to the attic air handler

    7) 2 HVAC service disconnect switches

    8) a dryer vent

    9) an external inline bathroom fan for the basement bathroom (like an external radon fan) (because there was no other way to vent the basement bathroom)

    10) the natural gas connection outlet for the standby generator


    all on the wall backing the big "utility" pad where there is a mini-split condenser (serves the basement level), the big new HVAC condenser for the rest of the house, and a whole house standby generator.


    So finding room for a 6 or 8-inch ventilation exhaust wall vent, AND ALSO find someplace far enough away from everything else for a fresh makeup air supply.... that won't be fun - (which is why I was hoping the ERV on the attic level (with 6 or 8-inch vents on a different 3rd-floor attic gable wall - (also being drilled through 14in brick!) would be adaptable enough to handle the extra load) It's Grand Central Station for the house.

    I'm not going to lie, I'm an over-engineer it, DIY everything we can, but try to understand every step if I pay someone else to do something, kinda girl! I warned my HVAC guy I would have read his all tech specs & installation manuals 6 times before he came over. So point me in the right direction! ;-)

  • 5 years ago

    So you are telling me right out of the box your chosen hvac contractor is among the 95% that design ducting by yhe seat of pants unless customer go's out and hires someone to help them? Don't rely on companies like April Air that sell add ons to design your hvac ductwork. You will find ventilation specialist in the commercial building trades where their servives are used in every hi-rise,hotel,hospital and other muli-room buildings with 20k sq ft and upwards. Yes,a commercial kitchen ventilation contractor is a good place to start. Even if they don't design hvac vents for remainder of building they work hand in hand with those that do and can refer you.


    Hunzi thanked klem1