so, is there an addition? are you keepeing same layout in kitchen? yes moving stairs isn't cheap, but what is the actual break down for that? did they itemize everything for you? are you going w/Meile appliances?

I'm trying to figure out what in this remodel is totalling 400k?

if kitchen is, say, 50K (which for not moving around anything, even that is high), and redoing stairs is another 50K (is there a basement?) then what in the world is the other 300K spent on?

Exterior work?

all new flooring?

all new plumbing/electrical?

even w/those 3 I get another 40K.

do you have a designer? who will be choosing design options?

You are right of course to question how I came to that figure.

It's very, very rough, and I'm in the very, very early stages of this. Design/build firms won't itemize, and that, so far, was how we were thinking of going. Yes, it would include an addition. In fact, I think the addition went north of $400k.

But they can tell you, for example, "oh, an addition starts at $300k and a studs to studs kitchen remodel basically starts at $100k". I'm not being precise here, but the reality was that the 2 firms I've spoken to *easily* got above $400k.

Saw you edited your comments.

• The market very much matters here. No one has offered a kitchen remodel (studs to studs) here in West Seattle for less than $100k.
• Flooring would be very likely new. Plumbing -- probably moved around a bit but unsure. Electrical -- we have a new panel, but the kitchen doesn't have proper wiring.
• We'd use a design build firm, which helps choose / make design decisions.

Moving stairs is very expensive and in your plan doesn't seem like it would allow a huge improvement. It would then be in the way in your living room and dining area instead of just a bedroom that someone spends less time in. At least I do. If you are putting in that much money, you could significantly improve the floorplan with a good designer and leave the stairs.

@kayozzy point taken. FWIW, we considered making our addition include bumping out the kitchen, and then the stairs wouldn't take away from the dining room / living room. The stairs would in that scenario be in the old kitchen space.

Part of the reason we want to move the stairs is to get rid of this box in our daughter's room. It's about 1/4 of the room.

100K for a standard kitchen remodel? come on. are we talking custom made, 40K cabs from black walnut? vaulted ceilings? Calacatta marble? LaCornue 48" range?

seriously.

you can get very nice wood / painted cabs for under 20K. countertops 10K. appliances, 10? heck, I just did GE Cafe appliances and came in at 8K.

What in the world are you getting for 100K? the space isn't that big.

I get the market. and I get how inflated prices have become. but for a standard remodel in a smaller kitchen that really isn't changing, It can be done for 40K, easily.

I dont' know if you're interested in shopping around, or seeing what elements you can do to cut costs, but they are there.

Do you know anyone in the vicinity that had a similar remodel? maybe you could see what they got?

It just seems a little 'high' for the type of home and what you're doing.

I'd want to see a breakdown of everything, and what costs are for what job.

(of course the contractor/firm will take their 25-30%, which is why I'd like to see some prices for the work they're doing)

why not work w/that box and build her a platform bed on top of it? storage over on the other portion beneath. (perhaps move a window) I bet a carpenter could come up w/something. a lot cheaper than moving the stairs to get another 6 sq feet of floor space!

@Beth H. :

Thanks for the perspective. A lot of this (most?) has to do with the Seattle market at the moment. Some design/build firms won't even talk to us they are so busy.

It's an uncomfortable process, for sure. The design/build firms start with a very rough estimate, and then get more precise as you get into the specific design components. So, they don't start with talking about specific appliances e.g.

Definitely interested in shopping around. And maybe even waiting makes sense (or not, who knows).

And because they are so 'important' and busy, they can afford to inflate their prices because desperate people want it done.

perhaps speaking w/ a local contractor or a kitchen specialist, cabinet carpenter, to redo the kitchen may be an option? All in one, big firms, are going to cost a lot more than local kitchen specialists. Since the kitchen is off on it's own and really not involved in the stairs or the addition, you may be able to save some money by going w/someone smaller?

Or doing a lot of it yourselves? I just think for that size kitchen/home, 100k is ridiculous. I could give you a dream kitchen and spend 25K. A lot of it has to do w/ doing the footwork and some work yourself.

but hey, if you've got the money and it's no problem, go w/the all inclusive. I would seriously vet anyone and check up on referrals and complaints w/the state board.

@Beth H. :

Agree on basically all your pricing considerations. I haven't done my homework to be honest. I went to talk with all in one firms as a shortcut to doing homework, and prices came in 2x what I expected.

Regarding the stairs -- just to be clear, the box in our daughter's room wasn't the only consideration. And agree we could be more creative with that. It was also the flow of our house and possibilities it opens. The rooms we spend the most time in -- upstairs: our kitchen, our bedrooms, our dining room, and downstairs: the family room -- aren't well connected. The possibilities include a bigger family room downstairs and a mudroom upstairs.

Worth the expense? I guess that's the question.

There is probably not a worse time in recent history to be doing a big remodel. Can you backburner it for a year or two? While it's difficult to predict the future, it doesn't seem too farfetched to think that things will get more reasonable again. In the meantime, try to find an architect and work on plans with him/her. Then look for a contractor when you're ready and hopefully when prices moderate. In my area (NE major metro) there are cost savings in decoupling the design from the builder.

However, I think you have learned something from your research thusfar. Scale your expectations back and try to avoid moving the stairs for instance. Work within the existing footprint as much as possible, keep any addition modest. While real estate is local and I won't pretend to understand the Seattle market, I would be surprised if spending $400K wouldn't be a money-losing idea. See what other people on this forum think. Maybe someone local to you can weigh in.

arch, you have some high ticket items that easily raise those prices. that's why I asked what a 100K kitchen gets them in Seattle. he says it's the normal rate. Pretty sure they aren't all getting your expensive decor/appliance package.

Beth, I admittedly did some assuming based on the OP's calling out of a Chef's kitchen. To me, that points to high end appliances and finishes (also assuming that the appliance package is included in the prices we're talking).

Kitchen aside, I moved from Seattle to Detroit in 2017 because of the insanely high costs of home ownership there. There is high cost of living, and then there is one of the hottest housing markets in the country, currently. It is understandable that design/builds are qualifying clients immediately by asking budgets, because, unfortunate as it may be, if the OP isn't willing to shell out this kind of money on this remodel, there is a line of 50 folks behind him willing to fork it over to get on a builder's schedule.

Realistically I don't see this scope of work, in Seattle, being much less than the figure provided, even if you take out any of the fancy frills.

Detroit ain't so bad ;)

Consider how much that remodel will add to your monthly expenses with principal and interest, utilities, taxes, insurance etc. Then add 30% for taxes. That is the amount of income you will need to cover the expenses of the remodel, not counting the living expenses during the project which will be expensive too. 
Only you and your financial advisor know how much effect that expense will have on your overall financial picture.  
Every time I have approached a major decision in that manner, I start looking at travel sites instead (damn pandemic!) 
I don't know how long you have owned the house but the classic advice to spend an entire year is always appropriate.  Changing seasons may bring new concerns to the top of the priority list.

@L thomas Thanks for adding some real world perspective. The very rough ballpark that I have been provided includes appliances, but I never specified the specifics on those things to them. Maybe they are used to putting in higher end appliances, and it would indeed be something we're interested in. Finishes .. maybe less so, but again, this is very rough.

@L thomas is also likely correct in his assumption that if we don't want to spend that much, there are likely many clients waiting in line who would.

@Lyndee Lee we've owned the house for 1.5 years. In the grand scheme of things, not all that long. The kitchen was what we wanted to improve originally, and now. The other things have come to mind since living there. But indeed, waiting costs $0.

@Noah Davis,

Not that I’m suggesting they would save you money, but if you haven’t talked with either JAS or Gaspar’s, I would absolutely recommend them.

"But indeed, waiting costs $0."

After the unprecedented price increases and supply logistics issues we experienced early in the pandemic I thought things would have returned to "normal" by now. Instead, prices are higher across the board and logistics issues are the norm. In our market, drywall just went up 30% (on top of a similar increase last year.) PVC pipe fittings are 3X what they used to cost. Ditto for structural steel components and the list goes on. I don't have a crystal ball, but I don't see any changes in the near term other than more price increases. There may indeed be an unpleasant surprise in cost if you wait.

IMO without measuremnets how do you expect any help. I agree moving stairs is a huge cost and putting them in the middle is never the best choice IMO.So you want help do the floor plan to scale showing where all windows and doorways are and where the doorways lead and some clue as to your budget and of course where you live, I live in a 1956 MCm ranch and the kitchen was useless for me but the DR was huge so we swapped the spaces . Anything is possible but you need to share a budget.

Lets start with a plan...Need current dimensions, current window locations, etc. What is upstairs? Anything there that you want to change? In our remodel, we moved the stairs, put a small addition and re-arranged things. The house seems like it doubled in size, although the actual addition wasn't that large.

@Charles Ross Homes I thought somebody might call me out on that statement. Heh. Waiting does not cost $0, it's true. What it actually costs is very difficult to predict at this time.

@Jean @Patricia Colwell Consulting I don't have these yet, but I'll work on it. The new stair location is not set in stone by any means. It was one idea to put it there. This is the Main Floor, there's a basement, so these stairs go down, not up. The basement apart from the changes need for the stairs can remain mostly unchanged.

We're in a small house in a high cost area and our addition/remodel cost over $400k. A previous remodel of our small galley kitchen cost $40k eight years ago without fancy cabinets or appliances (Diamond brand & GE Cafe/Kitchenaid from the now defunct Sears Outlet.) In the DC area now, a $100k kitchen is not high-end and a mid-range new build on your own property typically starts at $1m. I'm sure Seattle is similar or even higher.

We talked to lots of firms and deliberated for years before finding a great architect and then a good contractor. Renovating is not fun and if you can spend the same money to buy a bigger/better house, it's vastly easier. For us, adding on made the most sense and I only wish we'd pulled the trigger when my kids were younger.

It sounds like your design/build firm is being honest with you. I am undergoing a 40% gut remodel, 20% cosmetic (no moving structural walls), redesign of exterior, and it is costing about 350 in an expensive midwestern city. We plan another 150-ish worth of work in a year or 2, then done. We bought the crappiest house in the neighborhood and plan to stay as long as we can, so no regrets financially, but, yes, it’s expensive! Good luck, OP!

Boy am I glad we do things DIY. I've built a few sets of stairs in my life, the most recent one being to access attic space. Materials for it all will come in under $1000, labor probably 7 Saturdays, including the wall addition/subtraction. The thread above might give you some food for thought on location, as I don't think you've found the best place for them. If you're building an addition, then it might be simplest/cheapest to include them there.

Speaking of the addition, what do you anticipate being there? You've mentioned the kitchen update and small master bath. What else does your house lack that you're wanting/needing?

We are going through this right now in west Austin. It's our first big remodel and much more expensive than we anticipated. I do not think your quote is off. We're also using a design/build firm. In the end, we decided to spend the money, and it's been worth it for the excellent project management and great ideas from the architect. We decided to wait on building a guest house but went ahead with the main house because if we wait much longer on that, the kids will go to college and never get to experience a bathroom that wasn't built in 1984! We've been in our house 10 years, and although I would have loved to update sooner, I'm glad we lived here awhile to really figure out how we live and the quirks of the house. And the value of our house has increased 150% since we bought it, so that makes it easier to spend the money. I bet your value is increasing too. So yes, I know you could save money by being your own GC and doing things DIY, but if you can swing it, the cost of hiring it out to a good company is worth it in my opinion.

Sorry folks, I don't have my notifications set up properly I guess.

@weedyacres - Thanks for sharing. What our house lacks the most, where an addition would help, is a master suite. Our bedroom is really small, we have clothes everywhere haha, and the bathroom is joke -- no room for a door! So that's the primary thing. The problem we're wrestling with is that an addition would be expensive but it wouldn't add much value to the house. We've discussed going up a story, and adding a master suite up there ... even MORE expensive, but at least we'd be going from a 3 to a 4 bedroom and from 1.5 baths to 2.

@stiley thanks for the perspective. The value of our house has indeed gone up, it's true. I tend to agree with you on using a design/build firm. Where I'm not 100% certain is if we were to scale back our ambitions to just a kitchen remodel with no changes to the footprint or walls. That's minimum $200k with a design / build firm, and maybe 1/4 of that if its DIY. Not a small difference. I wish design/build was only say, 20%, more than DIY but that's not my sense at all.