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worthyfromgardenweb

Why I Hate Electricians

3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

...and plumbers and HVAC installers, most of whom care not a whit for how they hack up a house framing. Not my job!.


Here's a perfect example in a home I bought last year while I build our own.

The previous owner had the house re-wired for a new 200 AMP service. To run a bunch of new cables, sparky "notched" a floor joist to a toothpick.

In our jurisdiction (Ontario, Canada) it's not allowed to notch the bottom of the joist period.

In the US, generally, notching is OK provided--



Sparky could have bored a hole or two. Or even used a joist reinforcer plate. But since the "notch" is too close to the end of the joist anyway, why bother.






Joist Reinforcer Plate (Skyline Industries)

The wiring would have had to be inspected--it's a new service. But electrical inspectors don't look at anything but the wiring.

Comments (10)

  • 3 years ago

    Jesus worthy, I would not call this "notched", he removed 90% of material. He completely cut the joist next to a support. You have to sister that joist.


    I am 100% sure he knew what he was doing is wrong and he did it anyway. No one is that stupid.

    worthy thanked BT
  • PRO
    3 years ago

    Is that a steel I joist supporting to compensate?

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    I see what appears to be a copper water supply line going under the notch and then up through the sub-flooring. My theory is the plumber cut the notch to get access to drill the hole in the subfloor for the pipe. The electrician only used the notch cut by the plumber to run wires through. It was the plumber with the saw in the basement.

    worthy thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    steel I joist supporting to compensate?

    It is notched into the foundation and supports a series of 2x8s.

    You have to sister that joist

    Yes, drop the Romex under the sisters if there is enough slack.

    the plumber cut the notch to get access to drill the hole in the subfloor for the pipe

    Possibly. This house was empty for a year after a fire. The furnace was replaced, so that open floor space would have given the plumber easy access. But the same plumber who reversed hot and cold on a shower, tub and sink is capable of anything!

    We're the fourth owners since 2000. And the house was built in the late 1960s. So there's been lots of time for creative renovating since Lester Bowles Pearson and LBJ. (Look it up Millenials!)

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    This is not great, but the load is still being transferred to the steel beam. You could cut through that floor joist every 16" and never have a problem because the entire load is being transferred via the perpendicular joists to the steel beam.

    worthy thanked bry911
  • 3 years ago

    ^^^^

    Agreed. It will be interesting if there's a buyer's inspector that spots that.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @worthy - Here are some pics for you. This was done when previous owners added a shed dormer and a bathroom above. We discovered this when the ceiling fell into the dining room after a rain. The ceiling fell because the plumbers didn't use glue on the vent pipes and we knocked it loose changing a vanity.







    worthy thanked bry911
  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Yikes!

    Any pics of the repairs? A custom steel fabrication?


    Another example of the risks of buying "renoed" homes.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I don't have pics of the repair, but I think my brother does, I will see if I can get him to email me. You can't see it in the picture but the joist that they hacked out so they could get the Tee in (at an angle!), was actually splitting all the way through.

    We ended up pulling out all the plumbing and electrical, sistered some new joists in and ran the plumbing correctly through the center (without the fitting going through at an angle) then using a couple of joist reinforcing plates. It was cheaper to throw manpower at it than have custom steel fabricated and the joist was already sagging so new joists were practically a must.

    ----

    There was other stuff in the house just like this. When they added the bathroom to the main stack, they ran the PVC into the a 3" no hub cast iron cross using caulk, then went back to PVC once they were through it. It was some real "whatever's on the truck" plumbing.

    worthy thanked bry911