What size is the current shower drain? Most building codes now require 2" drain lines. At 60-70 y.o., the existing may be 1 1/2". In a multi-unit building, a permit may be required.

That price sounds completely ridiculous to me. I‘d keep looking.

"Shower stall: Replace wall and floor tile..." so exisitng is already torn out to the studs? The shower will be the greatest expense as they are not just "replacing tile" but building a shower "system" with the prep under the tile as the most important component. Obviously, they do have materials costs for all the prep and finishing regardless of the tile or fixtures and so we would call that "labor AND materials" while excluding the tile or plumbing, glass, etc. In other words, all the materials we need to prep and install the owner-provided tile (and what is the type/quality of the tile? The format? Large Format ? Rectified?, Mosaics? Glass? Stone? you get the idea). Just trying to clarify your "labor only" comment. Other things come into play that we don't know including the substrates and needed corrections, esepcially in an older building, the tile or other fixtures chosen, including the layout, demo removal, and more, so it's hard to assess from here. Yes, there is an upcharge for a condo with access and working space limitations. AND, everything is more expensive right now. Getting price increase notices from suppliers weekly. That being said, I'm sure your Dad is vetting the contractors wisely and willing to wait for qualified labor. THAT is the most important decision. Good for you helping out your parents. They raised you well.

Building manager has reviewed scope and work and said no permit needed. They really do things by the book in this building so if there were any question, I have no doubt the manager would require it.

Substraits do not need to be replaced. Drain does not need to be changed out. These contractors have both done multiple jobs recently in the same building. They do good work, but the price is well beyond what my parents intended to pay.

Good questions Dragonfly - regarding the non-visible materials. I don't know. But how much out of $30 K can that cost? The bathroom has not yet been demo'ed. Large format tiles for stall and bathroom floor. Stall floor is smaller tiles that come in a sheet. (Sorry, I don't know all the terminology.) It is not terribly expensive porcelean tile.

Have your parents get more estimates, but don't be shocked if they stay in the same ballpark. It's usually not the tiles and mosaics that are the biggest expense; most always assume that they drive the cost up. Had a client selecting materials for 2 small bath rooms; she was working with a company for the work. She called me in shock that her project was 60K; she really thought that her tiles selections were the problem when in reality materials for both bath did not hit 2K.

National average costs for that work was 25K a year ago, without involving the extra work and pain of condo access. A year later, costs are easily up by 25% over last year. https://www.remodeling.hw.net/cost-vs-value/bathroom-remodel?y=2021

You have already established the current market price of what you want. Further estimates will not change that. It will only lead to finding the cheaper less qualified person who will give you the lower level of work that meets the lower level budget. If you want to settle for lower quality or questionable work, because it is ”just cosmetics” (which it is decidedly NOT. It’s a full gut) then expect the technical aspects of the work to provide yet another ”help with tile disaster” type post in your future.

If it's not emergent, they may consider waiting a few years on the assumption that prices will stabilize.

Right now, I would have them clarify the quote for "labor" versus "labor and materials" as noted by the pros above.

We had a similiar update planned for a bathroom in atlanta several years ago and were quoted the same amount (designer friends confirmed the bids were on par with the market) - i find bathrrom renovations to be very expensive beyond basic updates ..

Demolition is always expensive and more so where there is no easy access to the site. If your Dad has this basic experience why not have him do the deolition and then carry on with the fancy stuff if saving money is the aim. As for permits that will depend on where you live you ask the town about permits that is who decides that. Usually any plumbing in a cindo complex requires a permit. I am wondering why you are not getting a designer who has the crew to do the work and access to all the other things.

I imagine the problem with demo in a condo (highrise?) would be it's much more difficult (time consuming) to get rid of the debris. You can't just pitch it out a window into a dumpster.

Your quote was the going rate for a full renovation of a bathroom that size ~7-8 years ago in my area. You are not being ripped off.

Thank you all for your insights. Very helpful in seeing the big picture.

In response to a few comments:

* My dad clarified that the estimate included building materials but not the cost of the tile and vanity.

* Both contractors have worked extensively in the building. Many residents have deep pockets and don't bat an eyelash at cost. That's not my parents' situation so I'm just trying to judge if the costs are reasonable.

* One contractor has two designers on his team. What role would a designer play? (My parents have already selected basic materials and don't want to change the footprint, plumbing layout, or look of the room aside from color of tile and frameless shower door?)

* This bathroom has been updated previously. All access is via their unit, no need to get in via other units, each bathroom has its own shut off, no need to turn off building supply.

* The manager has run this building for decades, has extensive building and up to date permitting knowledge, and is a stickler for compliance. I don't think my dad would even be permitted to do the demo himself, not to mention he is in no shape to do it.

The only way to find out whether the price is out of line is to get bids from other GC if you can find them.

In fairness, the reason why these GC's do a lot of remodels in the building is not necessarily because the other owners are profligate wastrel who are throwing money around needlessly 🤣

Many people value recommendations of neighbors because they can see the quality of the work and they know the GC is not going to be a flake and their story will wind up on a houzz forum when it all goes to crap. The value of having a trustworthy GC is enormous.

Also all condo buildings have quirks and so a GC who has worked in the building knows how the pipes and electrical system is behind the walls and what he is likely to find. He also has a good working relationship with management and so he knows what is needed and what the rules are.

In my building there are a few GC's who do a lot of apartments. My GC had done work when our lobby was renovated. I used a designer and she had actually done the lobby remodel as well as condo remodels for a few other buildings around me. So with both of them I didn't feel I was flying blind - I knew that unless they behaved completely out of character with their previous jobs they were very competent and reliable. I doubt they were the cheapest I could have found if I had looked but any money I spent was well worth buying complete peace of mind. At least for most people remodeling a bathroom or kitchen is extremely stressful because of all the ways things can end in a disaster.

I'm paying installers 75K a year to keep them poach-proof; their boss makes more. Does that sound reasonable? Talk to me about sticker shock when you've got a 20K-a-month payroll before you've paid yourself a penny.

Joseph, Yep, sounds like that money has to be made up somewhere. Is this since COVID or pre-covid was it like this for your business too?

I’m in NJ where the prices are generally high. I just had a guest bath remodel where their estimate was $17,000 for labor. I live in a condo building and they had to work around water shut off. I was also required to pay an architect for a drawing for the required permit, even though I was basically just replacing. My contractor previously renovated my primary bath as well as a small kitchen reno and does many other renovations in my building. It’s been a year since, so costs have climbed - insurance, gas, etc.

We got 3 quotes for our bathroom that is this exact size in Atlanta last summer - nothing came in under $25K. So we decided to DIY as hubby has the skills, just really not the time (he works on it every weekend). Materials alone so far have been close to $6K for a complete gut and replacement of everything without any structural changes. (Middle of the line fixtures, tile, etc., so then changed my mind on sliding door for the tub as that was $500-700). Everything is just super expensive now, sigh…

Kendrah: Wages have more to do with inflation than Covid. Covid excuses are so 2021.

Thanks for those of you who have given me cost comps for your projects and where you live. It is really helpful. They will get another quote and then decide what to do. One of the most hitting comments was about paying for someone's experience and trust in the building. I have dealt with such sheister GC's that I do think it is worth a lot.

That seems high to me. I am about 45 min north of NYC in northern Westchester ( not cheap around here ) . We would charge about 22 - 25k for a job like that - Labor and rough materials .

Get another bid or 2 and see what happens.

Good luck!

"One of the most hitting comments was about paying for someone's experience and trust in the building..." Bingo. History and experience can help avoid many pitfalls. And @Debbi Washburn, condos?

Debbi, Thanks as always for your input. The price range you listed, is that for work done in a house or condo building? And does the difference in location impact your pricing?

@Dragonfly Tile & Stone Works, Inc. I looked up some of my recent jobs similar in size to the bathroom above and we were about 19k - 21k in labor.

@Kendrah no not really. If we do work in a building that has a lot of extra rules and regulations where it is more difficult to work there, then we may charge a little more, but we don't do a higher price simply because of someone's zip code.

Location impacts pricing based on going rates in that area (including material pricing). Labor rates vary around the country and always have.

I am not sure there is much difference between a $25,000 price for what I assume is a single family residence in Westchester County versus a $30,000 price for a condo with elevator access located in Pittsburg.

In my experience dealing with the conditions in a elevator condo add significantly to the cost of labor.

I'm glad to see a lot of great feedback for you. Reading your original comment, this is what stands out to me. In your words, your parents are wanting to "make aesthetic updates", but when you're talking about a shower, replacing tile is not an "aesthetic update". That requires demolition down to the studs then completely rebuilding a water tight system from the ground up and then installing tile over top. I've done this this work myself before (not a pro) and it is a huge amount of work. Demolition is hard labor and the materials have to be hauled out, which is far more complicated if you have to exit multi-unit building. Then it's a technical skill to build up a proper shower system before the tile work even starts. Once that shower system is ready for tile, it takes experience, skill, and craftsmanship to install tile properly and beautifully. Quality labor is in high demand in many areas (certainly in mine) so unfortunately that means a lot of expense. If you want to do simple aesthetic updates that would keep the cost down, consider just paint, lighting, mirror, and maybe a vanity or countertops.

Apropos of licensed plumbing costs, I just paid $300 for a plumber to replace the flush valve for my toilet in my condo. I have no idea what the parts cost but there were two men who were here for less than an hour - but of course on this kind of job one factors in driving time.

Granted I am in a HCOL area where skilled labor costs are high and I used a plumber who does a lot of work in my building so I didn't shop around for price as I just wanted the job done correctly and with a minimum of hassle.

It has been awhile since I needed a plumber to make a house call on something - pre my remodel in 2018 - but I think the house call was closer to $150/$175 to get my toilet working.

ETA - I am not complaining about the cost - wanted to clarify. Just using it as a "micro" exampe of why the labor costs for the OP's bathroom remodel don't seem out of line to me.

My minimum charge is $750.00. We may fix a chip for half that if you are on our way.

I'm a realtor in Pittsburgh. Last year I sold a friend a small ranch on Mt. Washington. She knew from day one that she would remodel the small bathroom to have a walk-in shower. She is not moving any plumbing and using medium priced materials. She obtained two quotes for her remodel which include labor and materials. Both quotes were around 50K. One contractor told us how he had to give his people 50% raises to keep them. Prices are very high in the 'Burgh so your story does not surprise me at all.