When Steven mentions that he was ridiculed for his comments regarding DA and their business practices, he is referring to one of my posts on another thread. I apologized on that thread and will do so again on this thread. Steven, I am sorry.
Judi

Judi: I admire your humility and fairness. It takes a great person to apologize. And it takes even a greater person to forgive.

Steven: Thank you for those fantastic bush-shots of Fisherman's friend and info. about its scent compared to Munstead Wood. Your garden looks very nice. I grew Mirandy back in 2012, the scent was the best ever, but I killed it for the safety of my daughter (she was a toddler back then and liked to race through my rose garden). She's now in college.

I got criticized in this forum for my horrible 2015 flu-shot reaction (worse than childbirth), but it doesn't change the fact that I never get Covid despite not getting vaccinated. Husband got a very mild Covid during 4th-of July, and he ran for 6 miles after being tested positive. It was one-tenth the severity of a mild cold. He was not vaccinated either. He's 63 and runs marathons after work.

My local nursery is famous for having a huge selection of bare root roses each winter. But even before the pandemic, the DAs started coming later and later, and they would "short" the nursery some of the roses that had been ordered and throw in some other rose as a replacement. Which really annoyed my local nursery owner! then with the pandemic, everything got far worse -- and this last year, the roses were later than ever, and they weren't even allowed to order any of the new varieties (like Gabriel Oak and Eustacia Vye) for the 2nd year in a row. The owner told me (in January) that DA was considering not selling to any nurseries, except maybe a select few. He honestly wasn't sure if it would be worth it to him to continue to be one of the "select few." Plus, the DA roses are all more expensive for him, so then they're more expensive for customers. But, customers love the DA roses and ask for them, so...

I saw a gorgeous DA rose that apparently is a florist/event rose only, called Constance. I wonder if it's related to Constance Spry. Anyway -- does anyone know if these special event roses last longer in the vase? Are they not as disease resistance, so not suitable for many home gardens? What makes them different, and why can't I have them? ;-)

JudiJuneBug, thank you. I did not see that part of the other thread.

I stepped out this morning, and Fisherman's Friend has all the buds open on his basal break, with some petals starting to fall from the oldest. His blooms on this big, vigorous growth are definitely bigger than the ones arising from secondary laterals. Makes sense! 

Munstead Wood is having a nice little repeat as well. MW is the shorty in front of FF. 

Steven

I also have a delightful bloom of a one year old own-root Spirit of Freedom from Heirloom Roses.

Golden Celebration is one, and came along with Fisherman's Friend from Palatine, so it's on multiflora. Bishop's Castle blooming among Aunt Honey and Flamenco Rosita. Thomas à Becket with some blue Morning Glories, wild oregano, and a couple other roses growing.

Steven

Anyone spot the frog on the wall in the garden shot?! I missed it until after the image posted! I love my little bug eaters!

Steven

Steven: I could not spot the frog, but I enjoy all your pics. Your bush-shots help me a lot. Thank you. Your Fisherman's friend blooms are big & very nice. Which ones of your roses stab you the most? I got stabbed many times this year with Radio Times while mailing out its cuttings to people who requested it.

How do you like Thomas à Becket compared to Fisherman's Friend and Munstead Wood? Thanks for any info. I have Munstead Wood as 8th-year own root. A friend is rooting several Fisherman's Friend and she offered me one, so I'm seeking info. Thomas à Becket is on my order for spring 2023 from Hummingbird roses as own-root.

Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA) your pic. of that pink rose is absolutely gorgeous !!

Thank you, Steven, for accepting my apology. When I saw no response to my apology on the other thread, I worried that somehow my apology had also upset you… now I understand that you had never even seen it.

Your Spirit of Freedom rose is gorgeous! I have been watching this one for several years and am on the waitlist with several nurseries. I was so disappointed to see that Heirloom discontinued this one (while I was on the waitlist) and am wondering if DA will ever stock it again. While Heirloom is very expensive, I do prefer own root and I must say that the four plants I got from them late spring this year are remarkably happy and healthy. But no chance of Sprit of Freedom from them anymore.

I also wanted to mention for the sake of other Arizona residents that Berridge Nursery in Phoenix carries a pretty big variety of David Austin Roses. I got there a bit late this spring, after most of them had been chosen and were being held till ready to plant so I didn’t get everything I wanted. But what they had looked great and I bought a few. Expensive? Yeah, but everything is these days. I was pretty sad that Eustacia Vye was sold out by the time I got there.

judi, thanks for that tip about the Austins in Phx! My mom lives in the Phx area. I am gonna tell her about Berridge Nursery! She will be thrilled. She likes to explore nurseries anyways lol.

Steven, I see your cute little frog! I am always taking pictures of frogs in flowers here.

I sometimes discover one in a photo that I didnt realize was there. They are sneaky little things. I was worried that there wouldnt be as many frogs here at our new place as we had in our old place.

I quit worrying after the first night it rained. Their sound is deafening! There must be thousands :)

@strawchicago z5 - yes, it's a gorgeous rose, isn't it? I just saw on another thread here that @BenT (9B Sunset 14) is growing this one? I'm eager to hear how that came to be, and what his experience has been.

Sultry -- I love seeing your little froggies in the roses. I only have one such picture. A tiny frog was perched on my tiny bell pepper!

Deborah, Awe that's cute! I almost never see the frogs in my veggie gardens. Maybe they go there at night?

I usually catch the treefrogs sleeping during the day in flowers. They are active at night catching bugs.

I think there are Bullfrogs in our ponds. I can hear them out there on rainy nights. When you walk out there, you hear big loud plops, like they were startled and jumped into the water. Haven't laid eyes on one yet.

I hope they stay out there and dont eat up the treefrogs!

Straw, I'd say Munstead Wood prickles me the most of these so far. The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild though seems to get me more often and effectively.

Of Munstead Wood, Fisherman's Friend, and Thomas à Becket, I like the blooms of MW best for range of colour into the deepest blackish crimson imaginable all the way to vibrant pink, but especially the fragrance. Consistently, dependably, deliciously strong and intoxicating nuanced fragrance. Five years old.

FF has excellent vigour, hardiness (only one winter though, and not as hard as most), rebloom, strong, warm, sweet lemony damask fragrance. Blooms can get big. Some of the early blooms displayed proliferation, but not bad. Seems to get mildew the worst of the three. Only one year old.

TàB is only one, as well, but no where near the size and performance is FF. Signs of how Huey is here? Sign of settling in? I thought it would die its first season. This year though, it has put out a good amount of new growth and is eager to bloom. Seems acceptably healthy. Some black spot. The colour is like that of The Dark Lady, if a bit brighter: deep, rich pink with hints and flashes of crimson blueing slightly with age. The fragrance is different, though: it does have the true rose scent, there is a delightful lemony undertone present, but in freshly open blooms there is an element of the tea rose fragrance which I usually like, but here it presents as "hint bad breath". Luckily this element fades quickly and the more pleasant ones remain.

TàB is the slightly deformed bloom.

Steven

Sorry- MW was the other bloom.

Here are FF and Othello:

MiGreenThumb (Z5b S.Michigan/Sunset 41) Elevation: 1,029 feet THANK YOU for taking your time to inform me of the differences between MW, Thomas A. Becket, and FF. Appreciate your info. on scents very much. (I grow roses for scents alone). Your info. on height and vigor will help to choose own-roots that can survive my zone 5a winter.

I'm choosing small roses that can put into a fenced-in area to prevent rabbits from eating, and I also choose TALL and VIGOROUS roses outside of the fence, so rabbits can't eat.

There are at least 8 rabbits in my garden after the hawk is gone, and my neighbor built a shed, and rabbits bred under his shed. We used to have strayed cats that took out rabbits, but the new neighbor filled up the hole where the cats sheltered through winter, so the rabbits population exploded. I don't mind rabbits, but I do mind chipmunks which eat my rose buds and tiny rootings in pots.

I have too many reds already, and I will swap Thomas A. B, for Leander, which died last winter thanks to my NOT dumping a bucket of water to check for drainage at 2 feet.

Leander has the most fabulous scent, similar to Felicia (didn't survive my zone 5a winter either). Plus Leander is almost thornless, see below:

Where are you buying Leander? I had one gifted to me 5 years ago, but it was a hectic year and I couldn't get it. So it was the one that got away and I always think about it.

Hummingbird roses and LongAgo roses both sell Leander.

Vaporvac: Thanks for asking, that helped me to think twice about Leander.

Warning about Leader: Tammy in red acidic clay & high-rain TN with 400+ own-roots, stated that these 3 own-roots FAILED in her high-rain climate: Leander, Strawberryhill and Geof Hamilton.

Leander was ultra wimpy in a pot with fast drainage. Looking back, it's best as grafted rather than my NOT digging past 2 feet.

When I transferred Leander into my clay: After growing for 5 months in the pot, the roots were 1/20 compared to other 150+ own-roots that I grew in pots (before transferring into my clay).

Leander's roots STAYED whitish cluster (like alfalfa sprouts) and it could not harden into solid & woody roots like other roses to survive my zone 5a winter. Felicia's roots hardened into woody & chunky in less than a month, but NOT Leander, even after 5 months in a pot.

Straw - in the old DA catalogues, they talked about different "groups" of roses -- and one group was the Leander group. Did that mean they have a lot of roses direct descendants from that one Leander rose? Or is it a group that existed before that one rose, called Leander? Yours is beautiful.

Deborah (Z10 Coastal CA) Thank you. Below is an excerpt from David Austin 2011 catalog:

The Leander Group leans more toward the Modern Roses. They form large shrubs with arching growth. Flowers are large and colors include yellows and flame shades. Fragrance is strong and varies with old rose, tea, or myrrh. Scents are mixed with fruits overtones.

English Musk Group were bred by crossing Old Rose hybrids with Noisette. Colors are soft pinks, soft yellow and peach with a variety of scents, sometimes mingled with the musk scent.

Alba rose hybrids. They have almost Wild Rose growth, they breed from crosses between Alba roses and other English roses. They are mostly pink.

Thanks, Straw! That’s probably what I read! But it doesn’t explain their origins…and is it a “group” made by DA??

Leander is a rose within the Leander group. Yes, it's just how he classified his roses to have them make more sense (certain groups have these things in common). :)

Hey everyone. I hope you all are dandy 👋. I'm kinda peeved. Remember this rose they sent me that was supposed to be either Evelyn, Eglatyne, Abraham Darby, Bliss Perfuma or Barrone Henrietta De Snoy.

I got excited thinking it was Mustenwood DA rose but now it has turned magenta and Google thinks its a galeca. At first I was okay with it being another rose since I already have some Evelyns

but I do not want a once blooming magenta rose. I really wanted Abe and the other roses mentioned.

What am I doing wrong if tiny rose cuttings take 3-4 years to bloom for me? Sheila said to use osmocote plus. It turns out I had a bottle of it and never used it. I have been fertilizing them regularly with fish liquid but they just stayed small for a while and I kept them in pots. They all are finally bigger but I have no clue what they are since the tags faded away years ago.

I think you should continue to grow the plant in the pot, SoCal, until you can get an ID from the geniuses on this thread. It may be a repeat bloomer. I think it looks lovely. Blooms improve as a plant gets older too. The plant needs to get going a bit more before you give up. I plan on putting my every 6 months dose of Osmocote Plus on my potted plants next week. I do it Spring and Fall.

My potted Meyer lemon is also doing better with the Osmocote Plus.

Sheila I went through the whole bottle in three days, just ordered another bottle. I hope it speeds up the growth on all my small roses. Thanks again.

SoCal - that really is awful to have to wait 3 to 4 years for a bloom. I'm not that patient. It would be gone already after year 2. If you decide to keep it, I hope it perks up. :)

Carol, I agree it is awful. Either Burling or Rouge Valley sent me the wrong rose. I'm waiting patiently for the other ones to bloom and they better be what I ordered. All that time and money invested in them.

Do you not have any tags? The roses I’ve got from Burling usually have 2 plant tags in the pot, large writing. Also, my Munstead first blooms were way more magenta than usual last year, and some folks here refused to believe it was Munstead! So listen to Sheila re early blooms. Good luck.

Socal, give it the boot. I have no time or space for roses that irritate me. I am pretty ruthless

SoCal, give it the heave ho. I am ruthless. I have no patience for roses that irritate me

I agree, Kristine...I'm ruthless too. :)

Deborah - all of my roses come with tags...that doesn't help me. lol I end up losing tags all the time. I have no idea how that happens. :)

Carol, I lose my tags from the heat or when repotting the roses. Okay I figured out what it was supposed to be Oshun. It's definitely not. I'm thinking it's Umbra or Charles de Mills

Looks like Charles de Mills from those 2 choices.

I agree. I only thought it could have been Umbra since it's the same breeder as Oshun and close alphabetically for the switchroo. How it looks today

Ooooh...it's a beauty!!

SoCal,

Maybe Charles de Mills. Do your cuttings really take 3 years to bloom? Are they really tiny. I am thinking my cuttings 6-8 inches tall should have at least a bloom or so by sesson end first year. Osmocote us slow release. However, if you do fish fertilizer weekly zi have seem growth really mutiple quickly.

Kitty, yeah all my tiny cuttings in the past would take that long. Rogue valley roses has started sending me bigger cuttings recently, yay. My last ordered bloomed just a month after receiving it.

I don't know if it's a combination of being in a pot for a long time, getting too much heat or not enough direct sun. In the past my house was paved concrete.

I just started using the osmocote so hopefully that will help but I now have big cuttings from those tiny 4 year old cuttings that should start blooming this year. I always repot them I'm bigger containers as they grew.

I purchased a big Princess de Monaco two years ago that has strangely never bloomed. It's in full sun and in a bigger pot. I'm giving it osmocote this year. I believe one problem I have is no rain so all the tap watering is too alkaline for them. Just last year I started putting acidifier pellets on them.

Don’t know your situation, obviously - but you might try the EB Stone azalea planting mix (slightly more acidic than the rose & flower one), or catch rain water. I have five huge trash cans set up in back of house, with a flexispout connected to the rain gutter. One good rain storm will fill all five, and I water from those as much as possible. My own Mickey-mouse-version of rain barrels!

I love it! I would like to see more blooms before I guess.

Is $75 a typical price for a David Austin rose? That's the price in my local garden center in southern California. Patented hybrid teas are priced at $50 for comparison.

Apple - I’m in so cal also and Armstrong sells them for about 75$ . So does Louie’s in Riverside. It’s insane when you think about it ! It must be soil with gold flakes and tears of a unicorn watering them in 🤣. Sure enough they sell out every year it seems .

It’s not too late to order bare roots if you still want !

What nursery are you checking out ?!

Oh Walter Andersen comes in at 45 I think ? If i remember correctly

theres a fewcplaces by me that sell star and weeks for 35$ if you want their info

Lilyfinch, thank you. Yes, $75 is my local Armstrong's price. Weeks has excellent hybrid teas, IME.

Come to Boise, ye who yearn for cheaper Austin roses. Here you will find five gallon Austin roses for $49, the still patented ones, at Edwards Greenhouse....... Someone in the desert hills.

It looks like the 20% off is for select varieties - Vanessa Bell, The Generous Gardener, Princess Anne, Golden Celebration, Charles Darwin, Lichfield Angel, Scepter‘d Isle, and Carding Mill.

https://www.davidaustinroses.com/collections/exclusive-offer

Strawberry Hill does well in my hot humid climate. We have sandy loam but a few feet down its solid clay. You can make aball that totally sticks together like potters use lol. Our soil is acidic. SH will get a little blackspot in our rainy summers but doesnt totally defoiliate or anything (I dont spray). Her fragrance is one of my favorites.

Dave, thanks for the heads up on the DA roses. This is the time of year when these companies will start clearing out their remaining bare roots and slashing prices. I have a few places I am watching lol. I am willing to take a chance. They usually will do ok for me if I soak them, pot them up, and baby them for a few months.

HEADS UP: I got an email from DA about the sale and it's only for own root roses. (It's frusterating that DA isn't transparent about which bareroot roses are OR and which are grafted on their website. You can call and ask, but I believe that's the only way to find out.)

Do you mean own root bare root or own root potted? A bare root can be grafted or own root. Yeah, but it IS sometimes hard to tell on their website. Some bare roots that I have ordered in the past didn't say but then on the invoice it did. I dont like some DAvroses to be own root. Example: Munstead Wood. The first few I bought were grafted and were very vigorous large roses, bloomed a ton. The next few I ordered were bare root -but own root and really didnt do well at all. I just need it to be on Fortuniana lol. It would be a thorny glorious beast. Idk if K&M has MW on Fort or not..I will have to check.

I just checked Austin's email. They are own root and bare root. The potted roses are out of stock, at least some of them, and cost more. The roses discounted are own root bare root. Diane

Sultry: sorry for any confusion; all of the bareroot roses listed in the sale are own root (FYI, I was told all of the 2-qt potted roses DA sells are own root).

To further confuse the issue, the Austin five gallon roses sold locally, straight from Austin with tags, etc, are a mix of own root and grafted. Edwards is pretty good about labeling this, but it's still easy to pick up the wrong type. I know Eustacia Vye was grafted. Diane