I don't know what's currently being sold. in the past that brand was known for being poor.

Cribnotes on the small space / small cabinets problem:

I used to have the GE double oven range (gas model, not induction), before I sold my last house and moved. The double ovens were nice to have since I often have a problem with wanting to bake and cook dinner simultaneously. So I did really like the added functionality in a small, heavily used kitchen. Ergonomically, it's not great though - i was often dropping to one knee to use the bottom oven. Not a problem for most people, but worth noting since it's a drawback and might be problematic one if I had had knee issues.

The Fisher Paykel (and I believe Bertazonni too) are significantly shallower in depth (with the consequent loss of interior space) than the more well known ranges. Also, the sides of those ranges are finished, so where it does sit forward of the cabinetry, you aren't looking at that black, unfinished side most other models have. In my kitchen, that helps aesthetically because my cabinetry isn't very deep, and it bugs me when appliances stick so far that I can see the unfinished sides or they feel too big for the space. It's a silly problem, I suppose, but it makes me smile to have somewhat better fit. Likewise I wanted a red range (also silly,), and F-P makes a dark red one. Again, its just the smile factor and the kitchen is a place I spend a whole lot of time. YMMV.

Ultimately, everything is a trade-off between features, price, oven size, appliance size, etc. It depends which factors matter to you the most. No matter what features you pick, I think you will like induction. We've only been up and running for 3 days and already I am enjoying it.

Its early here and I just got up at 5AM.

I live in a rural area on a family farm near the Metro areas of Des Moines, and Ames. I have paid attension to service options. I'm assured that there are service providers around. That said, last night I pretty much came to the conclusion that I wont get the Furgor Milano, for several reasons, one being of the deep dimension back to front at- 29.75" which includes the handle. My kitchen is small at 12x7.5". My fridge sits in another room that is sort of a pantry/mud room. It has worked for me and my in-laws when they lived in this small farm house for decades prior to my move here 35 years ago. My cabinets are 24" deep with a countertop that I installed deeper that typical to gain a few square inches of counter space. that brings my current Kenmore Elite to the edge of the counter and a bit beyond. Its a deep range too. BUT the handle is sculpted at the edges to the center, where it is the deepest, so when you brush by the range its a soft landing. The FM had a very hefty industrial handle that protrudes too far out, and I know I will ram into it. The sale price was a motivating factor, but in the end not enough.

I have now narrowed it down to the Fisher Paykel Classic 9 in SS, or the Electrolux. These both have a ceramic top that is completely surrounded by the range, i.e. no bare edged to wham with the side of a cast iron pan.

The Fisher Paykel is on the top of my list at this point. There is a $1000 rebate that brings the price down to $4500. The FP uses 50amp, while the Electrolux uses 40amp. So the FP has more power which I like in theory. The small oven doesnt really concern me as I don't need a lot of space. When we have large gatherings it pot luck anyway.

I have not checked on availabliity yet for the FP, which is the likely candidate. It is so nice to look at and the esthetics go with my style of house decor.

enduring, if you have questions about FP let me know. Would pictures be helpful? My cabinets are a bit on the shallow side too. I'd be happy to snap a couple of pictures or measure.

Just mentioning this because it sounds like you probably have an older farm house - from what I gather sometime in the 2000s 4 prong outlets/cords for ranges became standard, and the Fisher Paykel range comes pre set up with with one of these. If your house is like mine, it may have the 3-prong outlet still and (at least in my area) that is grandfathered in. This situation really throw off my appliance store installers when they arrived. They wouldn't proceed, saying I needed to upgrade my outlet. But after they left I read the manual, and there's instructions in the manual for changing changing over to a 3 prong plug and a ground lead is included for that purpose. So I called my electrician and he popped over and got us set up in about 15 mins. So it's not a big deal. But if that's not something the install service your store offers can do, you may want to plan to have your electrician do the install with you instead of the delivery team.

Just thought I'd mention this since I have no idea if this is the drill with all new electric ranges, or if its just F-P coming preset up one particular way that confused my installer.

I'm adding a Bosch 800 30" industrial design model to your list. link.

It has a slim stainless piece protecting the glass edge. About $4k. Bosch induction has many users on the forums. This is a new model.

Danelle, great i lnfo I have talked with potential shops about my 3 prong outlet and my 50amp sevice they can accomodate.

Dan, you mean there is a peice to surround the glass! i couldnt find that info Thanks, Bosch was one of my contenders. ill have to look at that again!

As I look close up to your Bosch picture. There is no surrounding metal protection seen on the sides. That is where I really need protection from pots and pans near by.

For anybody having trouble seeing what enduring sees in the Bosch stock photos, try looking at the Bosch HIS8058 photos at vendor sites that allow you to enlarge the image such as at Home Depot (link).

You will see that there is edge banding around the front and sides of that range's cooktop which, at least theoretically, could protect the cooktop's edges from side impacts. Except, however, the cooktop sits a bit proud of the edge banding. From enlarging Bosch's photos, it looks like the cooktop's surface is maybe a ¼" proud of the edge banding trim. In Bosch's photo, the top of the edge banding is above the level of the adjoining countertop and so the cooktop surface is higher still. With flooring, that would be a tripping hazard.

So, is the concern that, when sliding or swinging a heavy cast iron pan from the counter over onto the stove, one could catch a cooktop edge and chip it?

If so, could you avoid the edge-catching risk by adjusting the range's leveling feet to put the cooktop even with or maybe slightly below the level of the adjoining countertops? Maybe I missed something but when I just now looked at the installation instructions for the HIS8058, I didn't see anything specifying that this induction range's cooktop must sit higher than the adjoining counters.

OTOH, with an old farmhouse kitchen, is the old floor level enough and are your cabinets and countertops tall enough for the Bosch range's minimum cooktop height of 35 9/16 inches? (Not so in my old house, but yours may be different.)

Another concern with this aspect of the Bosch industrial induction design -- at least for occasionally clumsy and inattentive cooks --- might be the cooktop's lack of any side containment for spills and boil-overs. Side trim can provide some containment and some might be better than none. But, then again, can you tell how well the side trim on your other choices would work as containment?

Enduring, in case its helpful, here's how my Fisher Paykel looks in my circa 1980 kitchen.

Some notes on the dimensions: The counter is 25 1/2" deep, and the front of the lower cabinets sans doors are 23 3/4" from the wall. As I chose to install it, the range is so much taller than the counters for two reasons: First, I have the range set a bit taller than is usual since I added the optional 3" backguard and wanted to bring it even with my 4" backsplash piece. (Note - The backguard, if you want one, has to be ordered separately.) Second, my counters are unusually low relative to the floor such that there's no universe in which I will ever get a range top perfectly even with the counter - which is one reason I just set it higher to match my splash. (The prior home owner added a layer of flooring around the kitchen cabinets, which buried some of the cabinet's original height.) In most kitchens you should be able to bring the cooktop even with the counter. I think the lowest setting on the legs brings the cooktop to 35 3/4" off the floor.

The depth of the F-P cooktop comes just about even with my counter and the finished side of the appliance sit proud of the cabinetry beneath, but not by very much. (My old GE coil had about an inch of side black side panel exposed, plus the oven door that sat proud of the chassis.) I took a sideview shot so you could see how it looks.

I know you were concerned with the handle protrusion: the big handle on the oven door sits 2 1/4" forward of the front of the appliance.

I have made a purchase, and I hope I wont regret it. I bought the Fulgor Milano. I'm relieved I made a decision, but now I know I will worry for the next year about service. I called one of the 2 service companies available in my area and was assured they service this brand. I just pulled the trigger. I looked at the FP range (with gas cooktop) one more time to check the oven out and the door. The FP was the same money, after the available $1000 rebate, as the FM on sale.

@vwvideo, you hit the nail on the head with the post and my concerns about side impact. Our cabinets were replaced 12 years ago and are level. the floor has just been redone about 2 weeks ago and it was leveled with a ply buildup to accept a new LVT click together flooring material. The 2 small cabinets are siting on the same level as the new floor. Everything is level AND flat now. Thank you very much for helping me with that clarification about the edge of the ceramic. DH and I both use the burners for cooking. While he is realitively careful, I can hear into the future...him complaining about the risk every time he has a pan in his hand.

@Danielle Gottwig, thank you for those great pics. It is lovely in your kitchen. FP was a close second for me. I think it would have worked well for me, seeing it in your space. Love the color! When we first moved in 32 years ago, I had an already old olive green range!

Here is my current setup, though its never this clean, lol. These are pics from 2011 when the kitchen was finished. I tiled down to the counter line behind the range, and up behind the vent, before it went in. My kitchen is Small. The room also has 4 doorways taking up valuable wall space! The fridge & pantry are in the entry/mudroom seen through the doorway window in the 2nd pic.

This is the countertop I have available for food prep. I also have the small table you see in at the bottom of the pic. I put this kitchen in in 2011, THEN found gardenweb. But with this small house, its not bad. We just work with what we have. It was still my in-laws house, until 3 months ago (now ours), so that was always a factor in extent of work done. We had a good farming year in 2010 and 11. so we paid for the remodeling. We've just had another good year in 2022, so I'm doing more work with the floors. Good years come around every decade or so.

Turn around from the range, and this is the other work space/kitchen dining area. It works and we can get 4 people around here in a pinch. the dining room holds up to 12 people and is only 8 steps away. This was the new cherry table & chairs I had custom made in 2012. I still love it.

Sink run at completion of my tile job in 2011. You can see the width of the kitchen with the range cabinets on the lower left and the old table on the lower right. The dishwasher is a Kenmore Elite that is still going great and does a very good job cleaning. I have replaced some roller brackets on the top and the bottom to keep a good thing going:

I like your cherry kitchen! (The cabinets are cherry like the table, right?) Congrats on reaching a decision point! It always takes me forever to decide.

Let us know how you like the Fulger. It's hard to find information on the lesser known brands so it's always interesting to read reviews from people known to be real. :p

I saw that Samsung flexible oven and was at first impressed wiht teh concept but not at all sure how solid an arangment like that would really be. It sure was a nice looking, impressivly blue oven. I guess the concept is simple. YOu section off a part and just heat that small part.

I really want the optiion of a small oven.

I have come to appreciate it so much.

I think it would be nice to have a nice, well built, small, stand alone electric oven . These small ovens do a pretty good of only having to heat a limited space .

@Danielle Gottwig thanks, yes the table and chairs match, sort of, the cabinets. The cabinets have a faint "coffee" stain that is picked up in the corners. Otherwise they are basically natural finished. The table set does not have any stain on it. I hear you when you talk about the difficulty with decisions. I think people are different in that area. I had a coworker who had their house built. She was on top of everything, wanting everything done as was initially scheduled. I remember her picking out carpet and paint. She just went in and selected it, boom and done. Thats nice on some levels to be able to do that, but its not my style. I was in her house a few times and I noticed that all the tones in her carpet and paint were off. They may have been neutral, but the undertones were fighting and I could see it. It would have driven me batty. I'll keep the thread updated on the range.

@claudia valentine I think the Fisher Paykel is a sweet looking range. The oven is modest. It has very nice sliding racks. People like it a lot. I hope that by getting the Fulgor Milano I won't regret not getting the Fisher Paykel. The Fulgor Milano was more robust in build I believe and with DH and me, "robust" is a good thing. DH has been very good in the house, but he is used to manhandling huge farm machinary and he can be brusk at times with his movements.

The 30" induction range, Fulgor Milano, will be delievered tomorrow. I will post about it once its here and working.

Exciting news!

Our rental has an electric radiant cooktop, and my husband commented that when he was boiling water for tea he couldn’t believe how long it was taking - he was indifferent on our choice of ranges, until now! We are missing our induction range right now, for sure. I am excited for you, enduring!

Happy delivery day! Let us know what you think of your new baby. :)

yes, do let us know how you like it when you get it.

I am not going for the high end because it is likely that we will not be here in this house for a long enough future to make it worthwhile.

I really like the Chef but probably will go for the cheaper Fridgeair because we are not looking for an investment, just something to get us through the next couple of years.

I had considered not making the dual oven a requirement and just getting a good qualiy countertop oven instead. But, I know that I would never use the big oven, so that might not be the best choice. I cant imagine ever needing that much oven space as one of those single ovens has.

They are H-U-G-E!!!

Well, I need to get the room ready and get my lipstick on! they will be here in 4 hours

@claudia valentine we have the basic frigidaire and a breville counter oven and it is the perfect combo for us. If/when our Breville dies we will get the next size up (we have what was the biggest at the time, but the next size up would fit my favorite jellyroll pan) and now that we are in full reno mode I kind of wish I had a slide in vs freestanding, but that's just aesthetics.

We use our breville way more than the main oven, too.

@snappity, I like your thinking with the counter oven. I have a counter breville microwave that I like. Now I am out of counter space. Any time in the next 2 hours they should be here.

here is my range ready to leave:

that is gorgeous, and makes me want a slide in range even more! You will love the induction!

@snappity, this is a free standing range. I believe a slide in doesn’t have finished sides. This has finished sides. My daughter just texted me to bake a pie. Maybe I’ll make bread on thursday. I like to make bread. I could roast some potatoes tonight.

Make a small batch of cookies. There's nothing better for showing the hot/cool spots, though a large double crust pie comes close. :) Bread is easier on the oven. With any, do check early and often because the temperatures and recovery times could be wildly different from your own oven. ETA, that was supposed to be ”your old oven”. ;)

Congratulations on the beautiful new range! I was a little concerned about the style, but it fits in, visually, just fine. I hope it cooks as well as it looks. :) May it bring you comfort and health for a great many years.

Thanks you plllog, cookies and pie will have to wait. Its supposed to snow on thursday, that would be a good day to bake.

I just wiped the entire oven out with Dawn and water. I hope i got manufacturing stuff out of there. Now I’m supposed to “heat the empty oven to the maxmum temp to remove any manufacturing residues….”

Thats what im going to do now.

Whatever it is called, I love the look with the front controls and no back panel! Very sleek.

@snappity, lol, I just learned the difference between a cooktop and a range top. I never Knew!

Very pretty range! On sale and pretty is a win win. I bet it cooks as good as it looks.

@enduring unrelated to the range, do you have soapstone on either side for counter?

Snappity, yes. I installed that stone 12 years ago when I redesigned my kitchen. The run of cabinets with the stove did not exist before the restyle. This kitchen is tight! with 4 doorways to boot. I ordered the soapstone online and they cut to length that I needed. I chose a slab the ended up ugly when it was cut, but in fact worked the best, because the "ugly part" was cut for the sink run, and was an extra hard portion of the stone, and takes a beating. That stone lead to other soapstone projects for the bathroom and DH's office, where I found remnents and fabricated my own sink and counters. It was a blast to do, but hard heavy work.

I love it! I am going to pick my soapstone slabs tomorrow, it's the splurge of the kitchen design! (aside from the wall removal/total gut part. LOL)

@snappity, do you have a kitchen thread that I can see?

I don't, I've just posted in various specific boards. My kitchen seems to be lower end than most houzz kitchens, but I also have multiple doorways and things to work around as well, but I am SO excited for our reno, as it will make our (almost paid off/with an amazing rate for the mortgage balance) house so much more functional for us. I am posting updates on instagram, though! It's not private, so feel free to take a look. 50s kitchen reno

Snappity, I don't hang out in Kitchens anymore, but Appliances Forum, and Kitchens Forum, are where I started. Back then, we were all happy to help out with any kind of reno. One of my favorites did a gut job for less than I spent on appliances. Second hand cabinets, scratch and dents, etc. It was a fab kitchen! And plenty of the puzzles of getting a modern, useful kitchen into an old style teminal hub kichen with all the doorways, etc. My kitchen also has four doorways, but it's a little bigger and has them sort of on one side leaving room for a good U. I encourage you to try posting your layout in Kitchens, and to bump your thread, and try another one, until you get lots of help. The help from peers was invaluable to me. They nixed my blunders, offered great ideas, and in the end, my kitchen came out just right. 12 years later, I wouldn't change a thing.

It’s too late now, we are well underway and I am happy with my layout and choices! I just don’t have an archipelago or high end appliances or a pantry as big as a primary bedroom, which form some houzzers is unimaginable. 🙂

LOL! Since the disruptions, I could only dream for a pantry like that!

I took out wall between a small (13x11, 4 doorways) kitchen and smaller dining area (10x11, 3 doorways - one shared to kitchen) and we are at drywall and electrical right now and I am just THRILLED with how that one wall has changed things. We also have a chimney in the center of the space that was wrapped with various built ins, and I was hoping to use the void that the wall removal created to do one built in - and in demo, we found that there was one already there, that had had the built-in we could see covering it for at least 40 years (in a twist of fate/small towns, I know every owner but the first.) our dining side gained a foot and is going to have a great nook for a drink fridge and display shelves, and the whole space is much more open - for a 50s house an n 11x23 C shaped rooom. Basically we’ve created an eat in kitchen, which I am great with.

Sounds fab! I am amazed that they covered a built-in storage with another one! Hearing how thrilled you are is great. May the gremlins freeze their toes and stay out of your house, and let joy finish the remodel with many years to come of good health and laughter.

I agree with all the good wishes!

@plllog isn't your kitchen the one with the very colorful backsplash tile, in every color? If you have the one I'm thinking about I love that backsplash and would love to see a picture of it again or a link to your thread bfrom ack in the early teens. Or maybe it was before?

Looks great, enduring. I really like how much more your backsplash can be enjoyed without the huge back panel. Hope you are having fun with induction.

I ordered induction with without ever having used it before. It's been a pleasure to use so far.

You’re probably thinking of the shot of my hood. Not all colors, but plenty. ;) The tile theme was ”pond”. The counters/backsplash were all one artisan, Architerra Northwest. I asked at the tile store, here, if it would be okay to buy in ones and twos because I fell in love with the whole line. They shouldn't have said yes. It was too much—they weren't in inventory, but made for the project—and there were a number that had to be remade, pushing my timeline 3-4 times what it should have been. Wait! That's not fair. The factory which produced my floor tiles started making them on their promised delivery day. That was the first delay. Thirteen years later, my kitchen still delights me, so it was worth it in the end. There are a bazillion threads, though some of them probably got truncated when GW was sold.

Here's my kitchen tour on my own site: https://www.jcskitchen.net/Finished%20Kitchen%20Tour.htm

And the tile tour is here: https://www.jcskitchen.net/Tile%20Tour.htm

Yes! thats the tile! I love it. I remember the counter the most I think. I love all the variation. All the tile is beautiful. Thanks for posting the links. Are you a potter? I see some bowls high up that look interesting.

Not a potter. I did some ceramics as a teen, but wasn't much good at it. I did bring a quilter's eye to the kitchen, however. In fact, the floor is called ”broadcloth”, IIRC. :D On the high shelf are some cheap brass planter cans from two homes ago, wood bowls my father made on his lathe, and a set of factory made ceramic mixing bowls with too soft a glaze to actually use, but they have a look that finishes the display. Glad you enjoyed the tiles!

Have you had a chance to bake or otherwise try out the new range?

I have used the oven for 3 things now. I roasted vegtables several nights ago and that seemed to take a long time for things, but i don't do this roasting often so it might just be fine. I wondered though, if the oven was cooler than the stated temp on the readout. Then I made cookies thursday evening and I think the drop cookies baked very evenly and with a nice bottom, not burnt. The tray of bar cookies took for ever. I am not a bar cookie maker either. I also didn't particually like the recipe. But I think its working well. I will order an oven thermometer to check the temp, in a few days when I get my amazon order finalized. It is very quiet with the convection. My old 15-20 year old range had a noisy convection fan. This one is nice. The range has a fan that continues to cool the oven after the bake is done, regardless if you use convection or standard bake. The cook top is very nice. Easy to use knobs. The timer is a little fussy to use, needing to push the hour select twice, " - " to get it to advance to the minutes option, if you don't want hours to register. Thats a little fussy. There is a menu selection on the panel that I havent used yet. I think you have to have the oven on to get that to pull up. So more exploring is needed.

I have a thread on "remodel", " kitchen", "design delema" that I will link here. I'd be grateful if anyone cares to contribute:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6355191/help-needed-with-mudroom-update#28366243

Eeyore❣️❣️❣️

I want an Eeyore now too. LOL

That is some amazing tile. I can’t even believe how beautifully it was designed. Just wow! I especially love the flowers in the counter.

Enduring, thanks for the update. it's always nice to hear about the actual cooking. So about the bars that took so long, something I've heard about a lot of ovens, no matter the age, is that the temperature at the sensor isn't the same as the temperature all through the oven. To get a really good preheat, you have to give it time for the air and walls to be fully heated, which may be well past when the preheat light goes off. Since you have quiet convection, you can help heating along, if this is not already automatic, by using a setting with full convection, plus top and bottom heat, if it'll do it, just to get the oven hotter, faster, and all over. Just don't forget to change to your desired setting once it's hot. My own oven is very well insulated so it takes a long time from truly cold to heat--and our "cold" is other people's Summer. It also retains heat well, so I try to piggy back uses, even the next morning there's still some gentle warmth in there.

So glad the drop cookies came out so well!

I looked at your link, but it's outside my area of expertise. The only thing that pops into mind is to wonder if there were a drying cabinet that would fit and make cold, wet coats and boots nicer to put back on. :) Or even if you could just rig some radiant heating panels where they hang/sit.

JoanM, thanks for the compliments! The Karbon faucet, beyond being adorable as Eeyore, turns out to be an excellent place to dry Silpats. Just square off the middle section, and drape.

Plllog, great observation about the wet coats. Yes we do have a system, but its not visible in my photos. The system is 2 hooks in the ceiling over the stair well, lol. I removed them to paint. DH protested when I took them down. I told him we can put them back up, hahaha. With the ceiling so low, its an easily accessable system. I can accomodate 2 hangers! Thanks for reading the thread. I think I'm getting the porch plan down that will help us all.

I've never used silicone matts before. Something I'll have to try.

Interesting coat hanging system. I had an auntie who lived on a hill, with the garage at street level, and the house a flight of stairs up. Lovely, big fancy stairs through the front garden. Or basic, indoor stairs from the back of the garage up to a door in the entry hall. It was a plain ol’ door, like a closet door. And 20” back from it was a closet rail, with the coats. And a masonite ”floor” which was hinged to flip up againts to wall. I suppose the floor was for small children and party guests not to fall down the stairs. ;)

I learned here in Cooking Forum, to roll out pie crusts between layers of plastic wrap, with a mat underneath to keep it from sliding. I used to have an aversion to rolling out. Now, the wettest GF or stiffest tart shell is easy as pie. ;) I have translucent silicone which I tried rolling between. It works, but is a lot harder to use to transfer. I used to use a floured pastry cloth, but getting my lovely crust transferred to the dish was frustrating to get right and neither slump nor tear. With the plastic and mat, if the dough gets too warm, I can just chill it first. And, off-setting the waste is the savings of wash water.

Pizza dough gets kneaded and shaped on an oiled surface—mat is perfect. My island is too high to want to use my baking board, so silicone mat for other yeast breads, too. Or any dough. I have a plastic bench scraper and a resin marshmallow cutter, which is like a pizza wheel with holes, which I can use on a mat with impunity. But I do prefer unbleached parchment for lining baking trays most of the time.

plllog, you are a sweetheart sharing all your knowledge!