I believe that the spacing can be adjusted to look better. It won't be perfectly even but the gaps can be spread out better.

The edge profiles...I could get used to them as they add a vintage (AKA used) feel which I don't mind. They kind of go with the older woodwork I can see. I'm not sure how i'd feel if I had paid for it though...

I believe you need to speak with Ultracraft directly because on my phone I can see that these doors don’t meet acceptable industry standards.

@bry911 can you please elaborate on meeting industry standards? The quality has been so disappointing, as well as the install process. Most of them should never have been installed. We are going on a year after install trying to get Ultracraft/ and the designer Showcase Kitchens who ordered, to finish. We have pictures from a friend who installed the same exact cabinets a year+ before us and they are perfect. Ours were made during Covid when they had no factory worker/supply issues.

The accepted reveal variance for inset casework is generally 1.5mm (basically 1/16").

However, in this instance that is the smaller concern. Here is a closer shot of the bigger problem.

This isn't something that a company can "acceptable tolerances" their way out of. These are objectively different door edge profiles and not simply a case of the chamfer being cut at slightly different depths, which would be bad enough. Nor is this a problem with misalignment of expectations, these are different profiles. I blew the picture up to make it more apparent, but in-person this is going to be noticeable and bothersome to most people. I can't even believe your installer actually installed this.

I strongly suspect that someone sourced a door from somewhere else that they thought was close enough. That could have happened because of the pandemic but it is still bad using any reasonable metric.

I still suspect that Ultracraft isn't aware of this because it seems like just the possibility of this getting posted with their name on it to a site like Houzz would make it worth replacing.

"The accepted reveal variance for inset casework is generally 1.5mm (basically 1/16")." Which standard are you referencing, please?

AWI - But all the standards are about the same. It honestly takes an effort for a production shop or manufacturer to make doors that are out more than a few thousandths of an inch. Cabinet shops are not measuring things, they are either CNC cutting or jigging cuts and it is pretty difficult for things to be different using jigs.

ETA: In anticipation of further discussions… because cabinets are commercial goods they are governed by the Uniform Commercial Code. The UCC establishes certain requirements for acceptability. So a manufacturer can’t just pretend they never agreed on a standard, the law establishes that agreement unless it is notoriously disclaimed.

This is all really moot though, as the OP is not going to sue over this, but it is bad enough that we shouldn’t be minimizing the OP’s concerns or asserting mismatched expectations as the problem.

These are poorly made… plain and simple.

Not all cabinets are boxed cabinets produced in highly automated manufacturing facilities. Here in Williamsburg, VA most of our local cabinet shops don't have CNC machinery (our best-known local shop uses only hand tools, but it would be tough to get them to build your kitchen.) Depending on the particular shop, there can be considerable variation in door and drawer dimensions, hardware location, finishes, etc. Calibrating expectations up front is always a good idea. I paid for this lesson early in my custom homebuilding career when we paid for "cabinetmaker" to replace a kitchen full of cabinet doors that were objectionable to the homeowner and to us. It was his last job for us.

Charles Ross Homes - First, we know the brand of the OP's cabinets and so this really has nothing to do with cabinetmakers in Williamsburg VA. However, I really don't see your point there either... Are you saying that your shops can't produce doors that are the same size? I strongly suspect that those shops, even the ones using hand tools would object to that assertion.

It is actually more difficult to mess up without the CNC. Cabinetmaking isn't really woodworking, it is production. From cabinet shops in garages to large production facilities, cabinet production has one common denominator. Jig production.

Cabinetmakers are incredible jig makers. In fact, my CNC is largely just a jig making machine.

This works for hand tools also. No one is going to measure things they are going to use story sticks and jigs and everything is going to be the same because for hundreds of years now jigs have been used to make sure everything is the same. Several hundred years ago drawer faces were not all different sizes, in fact, just like today they were within a few thousandths of an inch of each other. This is not a standard that was invented to deal with new manufacturing techniques, these are largely the standards that were in place long before shops were electrified.

So, regardless of the tools used, a producer should be able to produce doors that are the same size.

Simply put: you shouldn't be able to visually detect a different reveal around drawers in the same cabinet regardless of the production method. This is simply the minimum acceptable standard.

I apologize for the additional post but wanted to address this separately

"Calibrating expectations up front is always a good idea" - This seems wholly ineffective in this situation and just a tool you like and over-rely on... Furthermore, it is a bit preposterous.

Salesman: "Hey @nskeca these cabinets are a great price but just be aware the doors on the same cabinet will be completely different and the gaps around the drawers will be different enough to be visually noticed... that sound good?" Does that actually sound like a reasonable conversation to anyone?

----

When I drive to work in the morning there is a traffic light that is always dangerous. The light stops a fairly major commuter artery for a small side street. I have seen heavy vehicles run that light several seconds after it was red, so it is always a good idea to check traffic when you get a green light. However, just because I should check, doesn't mean they are not at fault for an accident if they run the light.

Likewise, aligning expectations is always a good idea to avoid problems. However, a failure to properly align expectations doesn't absolve the parties of any responsibility for the problem.

These cabinets are simply not acceptable by any reasonable standard. Seriously... two obviously different door chamfers on the same cabinet! There is no amount of managing expectations that would change that.

@bry911 thanks- we did not get them for a great price and we did have higher expectations. Designer could care less, nor could Ultracraft. We saw these exact cabinets in a friend’s kitchen before we purchased- the quality of what we got is completely less. Clearly Ultracraft now has manufacturing and quality issues.

Hopefully people read the real reviews before they become their customers to save them the stress we have endured!

@bry911,

I'm not arguing the OP's cabinet doors are acceptable. They wouldn't be to me. The point is that different cabinet manufacturers have different manufacturing capabilities. A manufacturer with CNC machining capability should be able to hold tighter tolerances than small cabinet shops that don't have that level of automation (the cabinet shop at Colonial Williamsburg is pretty good, but they're not too keen on CNC machinery.) Here on houzz.com, we see a lot of issues where the customer's expectation aren't aligned with the provider's capability. Whether it's a cabinet, a tile job, interior trim or paint, homeowners will be well served to calibrate their expectations on the front end. That typically means looking up close and in person at work the particular supplier/trade contractor has done and assessing whether or not the quality is in line with what they expect at that price point. If it's not, they'll need to choose someone else, and typically at a higher price point.

A manufacturer with CNC machining capability should be able to hold tighter tolerances than small cabinet shops that don't have that level of automation

The current standard (the one I gave) was established in 1961. I will admit not actually being alive in 1961, but I don't remember a lot of cabinet shops using CNC machines even when I was growing up. So if you are asserting we need new standards because of robots, then fine... but I fail to see what that has to do with this post.

However, CNC's for case goods are not actually more precise than hand tools. A manufacturer using fully robotic production facilities will not produce tighter tolerances than a shop using hand tools. More specifically, both are completely capable of exceeding the precision of the material itself. As we have discussed many times on this site, wood is hygroscopic, and even with hand tools you can be well inside the dimensional stability of wood. Seriously, if you are a cabinetmaker, and you can't get two doors within 1/32" of each other then you are not even as good as most amateurs with hand tools.

I'm not asserting that we need new standards. Just that homeowner's expectations of product quality need to be aligned with the manufacturer's or trade contractor's capability. You don't get a Sterling Classic Car Restoration quality finish from Maaco.

Can you please stop trying to turn a bad take into a decent lesson?

The OP didn’t ask for an object lesson on paint jobs. They simply asked if these particular cabinets were acceptable. Your response about goal alignment attempted to address a specific question about the OP’s cabinets with a vague witticism. You didn’t even bother asking who made the cabinets, you largely just threw out an aphorism to get a few kudos while avoiding offering any real help to an OP that has a real problem.

No one is arguing about different quality levels. There absolutely are, but not everything is going to differentiate between different quality levels. Different door profiles are not acceptable at any quality level, reveals that are obviously off are not acceptable at any quality level, even if there are 100 other complaints where a quality difference would be relevant.

So exactly why is your point relevant to these cabinets specifically? Are you actually saying different door profiles are acceptable for some manufacturers? If so, can you please list them?

ETA: I apologize for being rude but this site, and specifically the PRO’s on it, should be outraged at a company trying to pass that off as acceptable. By this point this thread should have a hundred people mad on the OP’s behalf rather being apologists for the company.

You're welcome to your opinion. If you want to flaunt your expertise as an attorney or an accountant, I suggest you select a different forum.

I will comment on your opinion when you find one.

Are the OP’s cabinets acceptable?

It is a simple question and someone who holds themselves out as a professional homebuilder should be able to manage one answer after a couple of days.

@jdesign_gw Do you want to jump in and give an opinion here?

Do your thing, Bry. And feel validated.

Why are you so opposed to actually advocating for the OP? I am just asking you to answer one specific question... Are the OP's cabinets acceptable?

@nskeca Why don't you post over on reddit r/cabinetry. It is not very active but they will actually try to help. I am on there so I will see it and see if I can get some others to comment if I can.

byr911,

I've stated that I don't consider the OPs's cabinet doors to be acceptable, but the quality level may be the best quality level you can expect from the particular manufacturer. They noted that the manufacturer is Ultracraft. I've never considered Ultracraft to be a high-quality cabinet manufacturer and they aren't on our list of approved suppliers. Caveat emptor.

I've never considered Ultracraft to be a high-quality cabinet manufacturer and they aren't on our list of approved suppliers. Caveat emptor.

@Charles Ross Homes, you have a huge body of of experience from which to gather your caveats. The home owner does not. They did what many purchasers would consider due diligence and gathered recommendations from their circle. They even saw a real-life installation of the thing they ordered. So while you may not be intending to, your posts appear to be blaming the victim.

We all agree that the cabinets are substandard. Whether that standard is "common practice" or some jurisdiction's code is immaterial. The fact is they suck.

My best advice to the OP would be to find UltraCraft's preferred social media feed and post the pics there. Tell them you're having difficulty getting traction with their customer service department and ask them what they intend to do about it.

Jennifer,

I'm not blaming anyone. The OP's designer related that the cabinetmaker's rep said that everything was "in tolerance." I'm merely suggesting that the particular manufacturer may not be capable of doing any better the second time around. Anyone considering purchasing cabinetry from this manufacturer will do well to note the OP's experience.

Unacceptable.

One of the biggest issues with the factory system is that everything has to run through your dealer, then the sales rep, before it gets to the parent company. Many dealer employees are great sales people, and can design pretty looking results. Very few know anything at all about cabinets. All they know is what their factory reps teach them. Considering that most reps are former cabinet sales people, you never really work with anyone who built them.

There is also the ”snakebit” job syndrome at play here. Jobs that have a few issues, start to fall under deeper scrutiny by the homeowner than would occur on a smoother job. Faults tend to be found where there really are only normal human tolerances. Sometimes that results in deaf ears to even fully legitimate complaints. Not saying this is not a legitimate complaint, because it is. But perhaps they are numb to hearing about issues, after the whole complete disruption of supply, manufacturing, and transport, that is still occurring.

Reaching the corporate office of the parent company is how you shortcut this. All the social media accounts should be employed. Ultracraft was owned by Norcraft, who was purchased by Masterbrand. One of the big dogs in the cabinet world.