Maybe they need to adjust their pricing closer to crate and barrel, and Potterybarn. Looking at their sale items, they seem to really mark up their stuff.

• I have never bought from Mitchell Gold/Bob Williams, but we do buy high quality furniture, and there is really no comparison with Pottery Barn and Crate and Barrel...it would be ludicrous for them to price their items like the mid-tier furniture makers. And I certainly see that younger people don't consider furniture an investment or something they want to have for years. Forbes had an article earlier this week about the problem for furniture makers who use quality materials and craftmanship, and their inability to compete with cheap labor and inferior quality woods. Consumers have grown accustomed to flat-pack/ready to assemble pieces made of lighter-weight materials that are easily shipped to the U.S., and they are not willing to pay for the higher quality pieces. It is something my husband and I have lamented for years, as we used to like to go browsing some fine furniture stores, looking for a beautiful and unique piece, and those stores are now hard to find.

Not that surprising considering Mitchell Gold sold their company to a private equity firm.

There is so much pressure for these companies to grow - I wish more furniture companies could just stay focused and do their thing well. There is a small furniture company I have bought from in NC and I just saw they are opening up all these retail stores, now I worry if they will cheapen their materials/construction to keep up with the increased demand.

FWIW when my parents were first starting out - their living room sat empty for a year as they saved for a high quality sofa (they still have it - it's been recovered 3 times and feels like a dream) - no one has the patience for that anymore, there is all this pressure to have an HGTV house 3 days after you move in (ugh I sound old lol) -

There is a two to four year cycle in my neighborhood for some fairly major pieces of furniture. A grad student or medical resident moves in, buys all New furniture delivered in a truck, and then 2- 4 years later much of it is disposed of, with sofas in particular just being abandoned at the curb. Some of the sofas are in almost new condition, some of them are already worn out or broken down after a couple years. Same with dressers, they are usually falling apart.

Regardless of the condition of the sofa when it goes to the curb, it is trash within 24 hours. The cushions get taken by homeless people, they get rained on or peed on by dogs, or they get lit on fire occasionally.

It doesn't matter if they are in decent condition, they still get left because they are considered too cheap and replaceable to consider moving.

This is quite a change from years ago when you would see people moving in with their parent's old sofas in 1970s to 1990s styles and patterns (sometimes really high quality stuff) and then after two years it would end up in a thrift store because they were still good frames.

The people who rented my house literally abandoned some furniture that had never been assembled and small appliances that had never been out of the boxes. (and more than a dozen huge contractor trashbags full of clothes and such. All stuff now that is considered not even with moving.

(I know how many bags of clothes there were because they had all been opened with things scattered all over the sidewalk.)

My friend had just ordered a custom sofa from them and but luckily was able to get her 50% chargeback from her credit card company. They offered the full line of Kravet Fabrics in their stores which was essentially the reason my friend ordered from them rather than a full cusotm

They actually did manufacture for some of the companies mentioned here. I don't know how the quality compared

The company made private-label linen sofas and velvet headboards for some of the biggest names in retail, including Restoration Hardware (now RH), Williams-Sonoma and Pottery Barn. In 2000, the firm made some of the first stylish home office chairs — in red chenille — for Crate & Barrel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/home/2023/08/28/mitchell-gold-bob-williams-closing/

I have always bought Italian made sofas I like the suppost system much better than springs and the leather is awesome . We gave our 45 yr old soffa and 2 chairs to our son for his basement games room . He replaced the foam in the cushions and it now sits exactly how it did new. The cushions were all removeable wit h zippers and so easy to replace foam. The perelli webbing is still like new. We have now replaced that furniture with some more Italain made and plan on keeping it probably until we are no longer here since we are in our 70s .I think Europeans are not so quick to dispose of items so they buy quality the first time .

I have always purchased sofas from the 1940's - 1980s and had them recovered.

@palimpsest - When I see a good sofa on the curb, I immediately post it to craigslist free section in hope that someone will come get it before the dogs pee on it and homeless people take the cushions. I have seen it work a few times.

I have a Restoration Hardware Maxwell sofa that is so old, it was made by Mitchell WIlliams. It has stood the test of time - naps, overnight guests, dogs, food...you name it. I love this couch and have been asked by a friend to leave it to her in my Will.

If you've been in their stores lately you can see that they have gone past classic design and are very into a much more modern look that really doesn't wear well over time.

If I'm going to spend that kind of money on a couch I want something that will last forever design-wise.

^ i have an old Mitchell Williams sofa too! mine is an old leather one - super comfy and the patina on the leather is amazing - I hope to have mine forever too 😅

ETA - Wash Post had an article this week on why furniture has gotten so bad - it’s depressing

I do not think modern is less timeless than traditional but well made is .

"filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy..."

This is not a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. It is a shutdown.

• Furniture store Mitchell Gold + Bob Williams is shutting down
• Legendary furniture brand Mitchell Gold + Bob Williams closes its doors

It's actually both:

https://www.wunc.org/news/2023-09-07/nc-factories-mitchell-gold-bob-williams-files-bankruptcy

Very good points, Jennifer.

Yes to everything Jennifer said. Also there have been comments here from experienced designers that even some high end / quality manufacturers aren’t what they used to be. It’s a hard sell for most people today to spend many thousands of dollars on a sofa when the one at Crate & Barrel looks and feels good, has a 4.7 star rating for over 2k reviews, and reviews for the expensive brands are nonexistent or aren’t stellar. I realize the clientele of those may not be the type to leave reviews but they are heavily relied on today. Most of us aren’t working with a designer to show us what we don’t know about.

I do think the marketing grind you see on so many tv shows and yes, things on the internet such as Houzz, contribute to the idea that one must strive to be on trend and to be on trend you will likely need to redecorate fairly often, including replacement of furniture. To “toss”expensive well constructed pieces would be crazy. In addition the scale of homes and thus the furnishings change as well.It does seem like there could be a change afoot to buy consignment items at least by those interested in sustainability in our throwaway society.

Also…has anyone tried to search on line to see what is available in the marketplace for a particular item, say a upholstered bench/ottoman? Of the many, dozens (over a hundred) of sites that come up first, 49% are Wayfair and 49% are Amazon. You don’t get Century, Sherrill, Stickley, or any of the other higher quality brands.

I would be more on board with the escalating tuition aspect--which I do agree with--except that I don't see the debt load having a deleterious affect on the lifestyle of students and recent grads in other ways. The restaurants around me are packed with 20 something every night starting on Wednesdays, they won't rent anything that hasn't been recently rehabbed or doesn't have a washer and dryer in the unit, they are not bringing old furniture from home. And they are not buying cheap furniture and hanging on to it, they are buying cheap furniture and throwing it away in short order. I think it's more that they more used to immediate gratification, they want everything new, and many of them went to colleges with Tons of lifestyle amenities that colleges did not provide in the past. And they aren't going to downgrade from college. It's the way they have been raised. Cheap goods disposable everything. Lose something or even leave it somewhere and have a new one tomorrow via Amazon Prime. And frequently the debt is so high it becomes very inconcrete, what's a little bit more added to it ?

Diana Bier Interiors: "It's actually both"

No, it is not a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is for businesses that "reorganize" with the expectation of continued operation.

Jennifer Hogan: "I don't know how the young people today manage to buy anything more than cardboard boxes to sit on after paying back school loans, paying for a vehicle and their mortgage."

It's called budgeting, shopping carefully and deferring gratification.

"The top 5% of earners have kept up with the cost of living and live as well today as they did 50 years ago. Everyone else has had to make their dollar stretch further and further."

Are you actually claiming that people lived better in 1973 than they do in 2023? How many people had AC, cellphones, Internet, streaming, Google maps, cars from which one could walk away from 50mph crash, cheap flights to everywhere in the world, AirBNB, Venmo, an endless variety of foods, and on and on in 1973? You're free to give up all the improvements in products and services made in the last 50 years. Few will be joining you.

"I bought a Ford Ranger the same year for 10,000, now still an inexpensive vehicle at $36,000."

Go crash that $10K Ford Ranger into a concrete wall at 30 mph and see if you survive. Have its automatic transmission shift through 10 gears to optimize fuel economy and performance. See if it warns you if you drift outside you lane. Turns on the backup camera. Ask it to link with your cellphone and navigate to your destination.

"Given this horrific economic circumstance ..."

Horrific? In America? Do you read the newspaper? The economic circumstances in Cuba and Haiti and Venezuela and Niger are "horrific". Claiming the same for USA is ridiculous.

Yes, wdccruise, they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy AND shut down operations. Perhaps this will clear it up for you:

"Mitchell Gold + Bob Williams filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy today, less than two weeks after it ceased operations of its 27 retail locations and its North Carolina–based manufacturing facilities.

The filing, submitted to Delaware bankruptcy court this afternoon, lists between 200 and 300 creditors, which are owed between $10 million and $50 million. Among the list: logistics firms Transportation Insight and Ryder Last Mile; fabric powerhouse Kravet; leather purveyor Moore & Giles; and 3D product visualization firm Cylindo. The document states that MG+BW has between $10 million and $50 million in assets on hand.

As part of the restructuring plan outlined in its bankruptcy petition, the company said it will hire a chief restructuring officer—listed in the filing as Dalton Edgecomb, senior managing director of the consulting company Riveron—to carry out duties instructed by the company’s CEO or board. The filings also point to the hiring of M&A firm Stump & Company to supervise a potential sale of assets out of bankruptcy.

Speaking to Business of Home last week, Gold, who stepped down as the company’s CEO in 2019, said that the company’s abrupt shutdown was the result of a disagreement between its private equity owners, The Stephens Group, and its lender, PNC Bank, about how to finance its continued operations. The filings state that the company ceased taking deposits at all its retail locations and online on the morning of August 25, following PNC’s decision to deny further funding.

Founded in 1989 by Gold and Williams, the brand was well-liked by the trade and consumer audiences alike, and its abrupt closure was met with shock. Last week, Gold told BOH that he was actively looking for investors to finance a $20 million to $30 million revitalization of the company.

The filing hints that the company is still hoping for a buyer in some form, stating that MG+BW has secured debtor-in-possession financing—a type of loan for companies in bankruptcy that allow them to continue operating—“in order as it is able to preserve its assets” and has received “multiple third party expressions and indications of interest for groups of assets.”

The high-end custom furniture company in Los Angeles that I worked for since 1989 went bankrupt in 2019, two years after I left the company. The last year I was there, I was working only three days a week. The owner and I had been working on a lot of new furniture designs that we wanted to launch, but the COO would not give us the budget to produce them, and I think this hastened the downfall of the company. The salespeople (especially in New York) were anxious for us to produce these new designs and were sure they could sell them, and the showrooms really needed updating. You can still visit the company Facebook page.

Some of our company's furniture is now on 1stDibbs, especially some of the earlier furniture from before I worked there.

I am not good at marketing, and so I can't speculate as to why sales went down so much in the past decade, but I do believe that interest in high-end furniture may have declined. However, our clients were at the very top end of the market, and I think that there will always be a market there, since some of our clients were not really affected much by price, but those clients can shop anywhere, and that is what makes it competitive.

Private equity firms are a cancer on our society. They are everywhere in healthcare now: dentists, doctors, it goes on and on. All about money and profit, A sick society. My furniture is almost 100% older furniture, some antiques, mostly inherited from my mother. Nothing very valuable, but nice, solid pieces. I would never buy the junk furniture that's around today. Money and greed is the name of the game. Sick sick sick

We are headed for a huge economic mess. This will be happening more and more. When you can't afford 'investment' pieces you can't afford them! The thread on home prices already spoke to the thin margin people are hanging on with. Most people in the country don't have more than one house payment in the bank. We are a society that thrives on disposable.

debbym, Tempe, AZ Zone 9: "Private equity firms are a cancer on our society."

Rubbish.

"The private companies in which private equity funds invest are also booming. U.S. companies now raise almost four times as much capital each year in private markets than from public offerings. Large companies no longer need to go public to raise capital, as there are a record 700-plus unicorns—private companies with billion-dollar valuations—including SpaceX and Stripe. A prime reason for this success is that private equity owners manage their businesses directly, while public companies have to rely on boards to represent a dispersed shareholder base.

The story for U.S. public companies is much bleaker. There are about half as many today as in the 1990s, and the regulatory cost of being a public company has never been higher. The U.S. share of global initial public offerings is also at a historic low, close to 10%, meaning that foreign companies are no longer attracted to America’s public markets." -- WSJ 9/4/2023

"Money and greed is the name of the game. Sick sick sick"

If you have any investments in a 401(k) or an IRA or even a bank account, you're participating in the "sick sick sick". Cash out and put it all under your mattress. Your 0% return and inflation loss will prove your willingness to escape the "greed".

I expected a defense of these horrible companies. I don't appreciate your snide remark about "rubbish", Quoting from the WSJ, capitalism journalism, is rubbish in my opinion. I'm not going to get into a long back and forth with you. This forum is mostly about conspicuous consumption and my statements stand.

Well there's irony in this. Most of the demand/lower quality dilemma comes from the fact that 30-50 years ago much of the interior styles of furniture was only a handful compared to today where you can look up any style and buy a furniture for that particular style.

I remember growing up 75 to 80 percent of my friends, family-friends and anyone I'd visit would have similar traditional or contemporary furniture/desks etc. It seemed we all had brown hard wood furniture. Regardless of age, background or taste. Our homes all looked the same to a degree.

Nowadays "trends" cause the demand for various furniture styles and changing them. Then you have Pantone color of the year, which is the most useless thing (and very cleverly designed market tactic) every year they churn out a new color of the year. Magazines talking about styles that are "in" and not "in" anymore. It can be exhausting.

Most people now don't want grandma furniture , so they swap well-made items for cheap Made in China. It's fine to want modern furniture , nothing wrong with it. As designers we are always on the prowl for good looking, affordable items for our clients. And interior styles bring variety. But if social media wasn't so pushy and trends weren't a thing, I think many old school high quality furniture shops would still be in place.

With that said, the higher the demand for something the cheaper the price and cheaper to make it.

Where would I look to find a list of fine quality furniture manufacturers? (Current and past?) I know a few, but there are many I am sure I don't know about & not sure how to ferret them out. For instance, I plan to replace an inexpensive leather couch (outlet find & not terribly comfy, I wanted to see if leather was for me before big investment with a "til I die" leather couch). After 4 yrs I can say that I absolutely want leather. But how to find that good one? Everyplace I go to says "theirs" is great and wonderful and quality. Curious who the Italian manufacturer mentioned above is?

I would be interested in what you designers think...you are the ones in the trenches purchasing for not just yourselves but for many others & know which manufacturers are worth the investment. I am not opposed even to finding a quality one on resale and having recovered if worth it! Also looking to replace chairs (swivel) (purchased inexpensively via Wayfair since I didn't know if I'd like velvet, etc) I recently sourced a couple of Stiffel lamps for a small price, just need to replace the lampshades-super happy with the look, quality etc. I see the value in recycling a preowned piece. Especially if it is budget friendly.

I am hesitant to spend the big bucks unless I know it truly is worth it-how do I know!? Reviews online can be so subjective or nonexistent. I find it difficult to trust some of those reviews when they seem to be based on "feelings" and not facts. TIA

Pam, I would highly recommend Hancock and Moore for your leather sofa. Mine are 10 years old and still sit exactly the same as when they were new. This is a lifetime sofa without a doubt. I also have a Taylor King sofa that is extremely high quality and comfortable and I expect it to last many years.

With anything, I suggest looking at the most recent reviews. The manufacturing quality of decent things occasionally declines over the years as management and manufacturing facilities change. Also, some things get a flurry of initial good reviews because of social media campaigns that inflate their overall review scores.

Reddit is often a good source for honest assessments although hyperbole exists there as well.

Pam, unfortunately you might not want to hear this answer but sometimes the best quality items are rare to find, rightfully so.

I had a leather couch too Italian leather, absolutely amazing quality, had to resell it because of moving. I had several other leather couches, real and faux for years. They all faded, got torn, or had other issues. The italian leather couch was unexpectedly in a very humble brick and mortar store that sold Persian rugs, vases and other random goods. Would have never thought it was there.

Best advice I can give is to search high and wide until you find a leather couch you like by looks, do research on the reviews if it's online. If it's a brick and mortar store read reviews too. But don't turn down businesses that have no reviews or little reviews either. The gem of the couch I had was in a business that had no review.

You can also try to reach out to the companies you look at and ask the sales department for a sample or swatch of the material if possible. Some high end retailers/companies will send one to you. Just ask.

They want to make sales so they will do what it takes to get you to buy it. Usually that is.

@wdccruise

So you think because technology continued to progress through the decades, that somehow that means that the level of disposable income for the middle class should shrink?

Cars safety didn't improve between 1920 and 1970? Microwaves certainly made no difference in the ease of cooking a meal. Automatic washers and dryers were not much of an improvement over the wringer washers and hanging your clothes to dry? Going to the moon, the invention of radar, the internet, computers, the atomic bomb, vaccinations all happened while our middle class became the envy of most of the world.

Somehow through all these changes the American Dream was born. We had the highest standard of living throughout the world.

Where do we stand now in comparison to the rest of the world? United Nations HDI ranks the USA at 21st.

Have you read/understood any of the information that has been flooding the news for the last 40 years about income disparity, the shrinking middle class, the failure of public education, the ballooning national debt, the increase in violent crime and street gangs, hate crimes, discrimination, food insecurity, homelessness, unsafe public drinking water. These are not the signs of a healthy economy or a strong middle class.

@Jennifer Hogan: "So you think because technology continued to progress through the decades, that somehow that means that the level of disposable income for the middle class should shrink?"

The question makes no sense.

"Automatic washers and dryers were not much of an improvement over the wringer washers and hanging your clothes to dry?"

Really? Have you traded your modern W/D for a wringer washer and clothes line? Why not, those modern appliances were far more expensive to purchase and operate. Why did you ever buy them?

"Where do we stand now in comparison to the rest of the world? United Nations HDI ranks the USA at 21st."

Well, of course you're going to choose some arbitrary collection of data to "prove" that the US is "failing":

"The HDI was created to emphasize that people and their capabilities should be the ultimate criteria for assessing the development of a country, not economic growth alone."

Of course the US GDP and GDP per capita is still #1 which doesn't match with your "Oh, America is so terrible" point of view.

• "income disparity" - Waaaa! I'm poor because Bill Gates is rich! Don't like it, go to Venezuela or Cuba.
• "failure of public education" - operated by governments, usually as a monopoly
• "ballooning national debt" - don't elect politicians who jack up spending
• "increase in violent crime and street gangs" - what do you think is going to happen when leftists support "defund the police" and other policies that allow crime to go unpunished? The DC government refers to repeat criminals as "people of promise".
• "hate crimes" - Waaa! He "misgendered me"!
• "discrimination - You think US discrimination is increasing? Since when: 1960, 1920, 1865?
• "food insecurity" - Ha ha! Leftists had to come up with "food insecurity" because it was obvious that nobody was starving in America.
• "homelessness" - if governments invite people to pitch tents in parks and on sidewalks what do you think is going to happen?
• "unsafe public drinking water" - Do you not drink water from the tap?

We have a good quality (Sherrill) sofa that I'll probably replace with a mid-tier (Pottery Barn or similar) sofa. Why? Because we're pet owners and the upholstery is worn, plus the color doesn't go with recent decor updates we've made--and the cost of re-covering the sofa would be higher than buying a mid-tier sofa brand new. So while I'll happily pay a premium for items I expect to last for years (a handmade rug or dining room table and chairs), with the shorter life expectancy of upholstery fabrics and cost of re-upholstering in our area, it makes more sense to buy a less expensive sofa.

We have higher-end pieces from Pearson, Kravet, Baker, Century, Harden and Hickory Chair. But I’m starting to feel as though the rationale for spending so much is antiquated. Yes, these are investment pieces that will last a lifetime. And that’s just what people used to do: keep their furniture forever, perhaps redecorating once. But nowadays people might want to change the look of their home more often, and if spending less on furniture helps you afford to do so, why not? It doesn’t have to last a lifetime when you only want to keep a look for 7 to 10 years. And with people moving so often, that makes sense. I know that when we went into our current house we had to move heaven and earth to make some of our sofas and chairs work in the larger space. To me, high-end furniture is a bit like bone china. We fretted over registering for just the right pattern, but 26 years later, who really even uses their china? And just as it’s been widely reported that your kids don’t want your china and doodad heirlooms, so too is it true that your kids won’t want your furniture, which is apt to strike them as stodgy even if it’s reupholstered.

@Pam

i thought was was a very interesting round up of sofa manufacturers rated from low cost to the very expensive like Baker with both quality and value rated

https://insidersguidetofurniture.com/worst-and-best-sofa-sectional-reviews-for-2023-2/?expand_article=1

The downside of cheap furniture is that it has almost no resale value once it is delivered and zero value when it is abandoned on the sidewalk, so it's all just more fodder for the landfill. Literally nothing that my parents bought to furnish their house between 1955 and 1975 has ended up in a landfill, except the old mattresses, I am assuming. All of their furniture is either in one of our houses or was sold at auction. Buying cheap furniture so you can be fickle about what you like or to keep up with trends is not particularly good for the environment.

@helen

Thank you for the link, good article, good info!

I agree that inexpensive furniture has no resale value, but furniture that’s perceived as outdated (golden oak and ‘70s sofa profiles, for example), no matter how sturdy and well-made, doesn’t either. Consider donating your gently used furniture to a place like a Habitat for Humanity Re-Store.

@ wdccruise

I will try to help you understand. Your point was that cars are safer and technology, cell phones, internet and no one would want to go back to how things were 50 years ago.

But that is always true. In the 50 years prior to 1970 technology grew - in 1920 there were no commercial airplanes, most households did not have a car, only 35% of homes had electricity. Women didn't get the right to vote until August 1920, so most people in 1970 would not have wanted to go back to how things were in 1920

Your argument has nothing to do with the share of wealth or income disparity.

In 1970 the middle class had a much larger share of the income than they have in 2020. CEOs of the fortune 500 in 1970 earned 25 times what the average employee earned. Today CEOs earn 399 times what the average employee earns.

Top 1% have seen enormous wage growth while the middle class earnings stagnated

Your solution "budgeting, shopping carefully and deferring gratification" is not taking into account that Gen Z dollars today have 86% less purchasing power than those from when baby boomers were in their twenties.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/comparing-the-costs-of-generations.html

Of course the US GDP and GDP per capita is still #1 which doesn't match with your "Oh, America is so terrible" point of view.

The United States has the highest GDP in the world, but our population is larger than many other countries. We are not #1 in GDP per capita any more - as of 2023 we are ranked #9.

• "income disparity" - Waaaa! I'm poor because Bill Gates is rich! Don't like it, go to Venezuela or Cuba.

I won't argue that there are countries in the world that have more economic disparity than the US, but shouldn't we be comparing our country to other more developed countries like most of Europe, Canada, Japan . . . not South America, Central Africa and Iraq and Iran.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your comments. Too many are just ignorant rhetoric.

there was no warning. employees had no idea this was even going to happen. they literally put a note on the door for people showing up to work.

they are currently having a third party company take liquidation inventory. supposedly once that is completed there will be a large sell off of their inventory at reduced pricing. not sure if this will take place in their outlet store or at their actual facilioty. there is no plan to re-organize and come back. they tried to secure a loan to keep them going and they were denied the loan. it is my understanding that the loan was the last ditch effort and that they don't even have enough funds for a reoganization.

i believe their financials took a big hit when pottery barn opened up their own factory and manufactured their own sofas. this was years ago but pb got to the point where the only sofas m and g were making for them were the three orignals they offered pb basic and two others. once pb dropped those models from their line up that was a lot of revenue for them that was no longer coming in. if crate and barrell and RH followed suit then that was also detrimental because people are much more aware of those big box stores that they are of m and g.

it is really very sad. from a designer perspective they always had on hand inventoty and their sales reps were excellent, helpful and attentive. that can't be said for everyone these days.

While I loved the furniture and decor at my M & G location , the service there was horrendous. Nothing ever in stock, long wait times and high shipping costs . I once tried to buy a wall sculpture and it was 6 weeks and $200 shipping . Went home and bought the exact same thing from Horchow for zero shipping and got it in 2 weeks .

They still could be acquired. Look at Bed bath and beyond. Now owned by overstock and all items sold online.

From a large view, the market for very expensive designer furniture is currently tanking. There are a variety of culprits including that most people can't afford the price so the market is shrinking.

There are a few of the very high end maufacturers who have also closed their doors recently.

I am finishing redecorating my home and I wanted two "occasional" chairs. I had decided on a fairly ubiquitous barrel swivel chair - a pair in leather. When I was looking for the chair there are some minor differences in terms of dimension, height, details etc. but I found one that suited me needs including a fairly good selection of quality leather.

It was a Baker and when I had it priced through my designer, each chair was $6000. Even my designer was shocked by how high the prices had become for Baker furniture. So I had the chairs made by a local upholsterer to my specifications exactly including a wide selection of leathers. It cost me half the price for the same extremely high quality chair even with my designer's fees.

I don't think any furniture is really an investment - especially upholstered furniture. Years ago - before there was IKEA and relatively inexpensive attractive furniture, kids would make do with their first apartments and homes with hand me down furniture. But not anymore and I really can't fault them as who wants to live with furniture that they don't like when there is a reasonably priced alternative.

At any rate, upholstered furniture is generally going to look shabby after five or six years if it is actually used and the wood frame is generally the least expensive part of having something reupholstered. I did have some vintage stuff reupholstered when I redecorated but that was only because there were beautiful wood details that couldn't be duplicated unlike a fully upholstered piece of furniture and I still really liked the specific items I kept.

I actually did have my sofa made by a custom local upholstered based on a picture of a vintage Art Deco sofa and my table (which is all wood) was also made by a local custom wood shop based on a French Art Deco dining table.

However all of the Victorian antique stuff I felt lucky to find a someone who was willing to take it.

I can't say much about buying new high end furniture, or make any value judgements about who does or doesn't, but there is a lot of space between $6000 at Baker and $180 at Wayfair. I can't make any judgments because I prefer high end furniture, and have been a combination of patient, smart about choosing, and willing to reupholster, and I was also lucky enough to get lots of high end furniture from my parents' house. Almost every piece of furniture in my parents' house is now in a child or grandchild's house and a few pieces went to auction. Mostly Baker, Henredon, etc. and semi custom, which is a thing you could do a little easier 50 odd years ago. I've literally never bought a brand new high end piece of furniture. The highest I ever went was Ethan Allen. I don't think there is anything wrong with EA, especially when I bought it 25 years ago, but it's not Baker.

My father, who already had a job and a half, and was well remunerated took a third position, part-time, just to pay for the furniture for the new house they built. He stayed at that job exactly long enough to pay off the furniture. Again, 50 odd years ago, you could go to a full service department store with furniture/interior design services and have accounts you could pay off over time, at a lower interest than credit cards. So we all benefitted because we all have some really good pieces of furniture. (Just to put this in context, if the sofa I have was purchased now, adjusted for inflation, my parents' paid the equivalent of $11,000 in 2023 dollars. For whatever reason, it was worth it for my dad to get an extra job to get new furniture for the whole house at one time and never worry about it again)

I totally agree about the issues of income discrepancy in this country, but I am not sure that buying cheap stuff or expensive stuff at Baker is completely linked to income: one of my bosses lives in a 10,000 sq. ft, $3M market value house, in a not overly HCOLA, and it has 5 different Subzero units in the house. And he drives a Porsche. But his current wife is filling the house with cheap stuff from Wayfair. Why? Well in general she is cheap and has terrible taste, but not everything inexpensive from Wayfair is in bad taste nor is every $6000 chair in good taste. But she has no ideas about longevity, she will throw out a toaster or microwave if it is a year old and/or gets "too dirty" rather than cleaning it.

From the husband's standpoint: You can mortgage a house. A big house impresses lots of people who will never get inside. An expensive car is a very public object. You can lease or make car payments. You can't mortgage furniture. And lots and lots of people don't pay much attention to furniture especially in a huge house, they are looking at how huge the house is...general impressions, broad strokes. So cheap, on trend furniture, especially if your wife is going to throw it away if it gets a spot on in or something, makes sense.

I used to sell MGBM furniture (pre-internet furniture sites), many years ago, and even then the quality was going down and we got complaints. I think there are probably many more reasons for their demise than just cheaper competition.

On a sidenote, regarding younger generations … my DD just bought her first house. It, and her apt before, was/is 98% vintage, family hand-me-downs, thrift store, antique store, curb finds, garage sales, etc. She loves well-made furniture and decor, and if buying new, is very picky and saves until she can afford it. Her friends are the same way, and I see so many of their generation on IG embracing ”Cottagecore” ”Grandmacore”, etc.

Sorry, shameless anecdotal mom brag. :D

But seriously, I absolutely don’t see it as a generational issue. A quick perusal of these forums will show plenty of older pros and non-pros posting Wayfair, Houzz, etc links. I’m not pointing fingers, I do it, too.

Thanks to the internet, this is how it is now.

ETA: This has been a really interesting discussion — thanks Diana and everyone.

For years MG only made proprietary items for retailers like Pottery Barn, Arhaus, Crate & Barrel, and others. Going into retail, where you fabricate based on a guess of what the market will buy is completely different than being a wholesale supplier where you only produce items that have already been sold.

Then add people at the top who can read profit and loss statements like no one's business, but who don't have fibers and springs in their DNA, and that further complicates matters. Successful CEOs in one industry are not interchangeable with another industry without a steep learning curve that isn't supported by a fast-moving retail market.

Add to that a national population that is so starved for wages (national household yearly average $54k) that they can only purchase interior furnishings if offered the possibility of buying over a 60-month period and you have a limited market of only the 3 %ers.

Unfortunately, we are one of the 4,000 MGBW customers with an open order, currently held at a Ryder last mile delivery warehouse that will not release it to us under the conditions of the bankruptcy filing. I've never been in this situation before, but I assume we'll never receive the furniture we paid for and it may be years before we receive any sort of funds reimbursement, if at all. There is no way to obtain information from MGBW, the bankruptcy arbiters, or Ryder. Any advice beyond filing a dispute with our credit card company (which we've done)?

Check with your attorney and file a claim with your business insurance carrier.

@stroset My friend had ordered a sofa and lamps with a 50% deposit. Her credit card comlany put through her charge back immediately. She She did it the day she heard