I would not have the contractor do any demo or work of any kind until this is resolved. Justice would be the burden falling on him. Legally, I suspect the burden falls on you?

1. Clarify with the town who is responsible for the double fee - you or contractor.

2. Explain the situation and ask for reprieve.

3. If they don't give it to you, let the contractor know he is responsible and get him to sign something agreeing to that, and withhold that amount from your final payment.

4. If he won't you know you only have big trouble down the line in dealing with this guy and it is time to find a new contractor.

I presume if the contractor is not using these items for himself, he is going to sell them for cash. Our contractor did something similar. He was too greedy to start so he could sell our items for cash. If only he were so eager to complete the rest of the job!

There is a fine line between what the contractor did and a full demo of the kitchen.

He is probably saying he did not need a permit because he did a partial demo. Taking out the flooring, appliances, backsplash, lighting, and removing any walls would have completed the demo.

If the town decides that he fully demoed the kitchen then he needs to pay the additional fee. Why should you pay for his greed and mistake.

I'm going to assume this is a Manhattan apartment or condo and frankly, even 10k for permitting seems extreme for alteration permitting but we don't know the extent of your renovation or the square feet involved.

Let's be honest; anywhere but Manhattan , it is not uncommon at all for some minor demo to take place prior to permits. Most contractors in business for lengthy periods have cultivated a strong relationship with the permit departments in their area. But with aging pre war buildings, asbestos, cloth covered wiring....it is quite stringent.

As far a s I am concerned, it's on the contractor if the penalty is enforced. But in ANY scenario? Your attorney is the one to ASK. In any case? Get it in writing. For all we know, legally it could be on you. You gave him the key : ) and yes.....even removing that counter top sink was an issue.

In reality permitting is of course a safety valve.....and it is also a tax/huge revenue stream no matter where you reside.

What is the process for appeals?I would pursue an appeal while he is doing work as the demo he did should not require a permit (at least here in NJ). I think a permit is required when there is structural, electrical rewiring and plumbing changes . You can switch out kitchen cabinets with no permits as long as the footprint was not altered in NJ

Yikes. Someone pi$$ed off the building department. I assume the contractor paid for and pulled the permit, it’s on him to BEG and make nice with the head of the building department and get the charge reversed, or pay the fine.

I agree on the negotiate with the building department - maybe after consulting with an attorney. Demo might be a stretch - as it sounds like they removed for reuse - which, IMO, is different than demo (but suspect anything that looks like "work commencing" is called demo...)

You are now going to have to tread lightly around the buidling department - certainly not the foot your contractor who have wanted to start off on...

Good news - you have a long time to repair the relationship and negotiate the removal of the fee.

" The building inspector saw, and is accusing us of work without a permit. "

You did. The inspector no to starting demo, the contractor started demo. Point blank. Whose name is the permit in? Come to agreement BEFORE anything further is done and have it in writing.

I think this must be a regional thing. I have never needed a permit to remove cabinets in a kitchen renovation but needed permits for all plumbing and electrical work and any wall removal. I think this really depends on what exactly is meant in the permit where you live. I do think a talk with the permit office could maybe lessen this fine at least.

At this point, even if you tell the GC that he is paying for it ... guess who will really pay for it?

He has a whole project ahead of him to make up that $20K, unless you have some ironclad fixed price contract that spells out every single thing, which I doubt. You will pay one way or another!

How did the inspector ”see” anything behind the closed doors of an apartment? Or have time to cruise around to see any debris being handled? Your building super or your neighbors is how.

Someone didn't ”bonus” the super, or made a bunch of unnecessary noise or dirt that annoyed the neighbors. The first is an inevitable urban project cost. The second is too. You have to make nice with the neighbors, with a few care packages.

Now the inspector is annoyed too. So you may have additional ”soft costs” to unannoy them. That can be an official letter of apology. It can also be unofficial game tickets, restaurant gift cards, or just coffee and pastries on inspection days. Or cash is not unheard of. That is where having that experienced GC who is known by all comes in to making things run greased and smoothly. It sounds like that did not happen, so you may pay way more than a 20K official fine in the end. Which you actually would have paid from the beginning.

Appeal. Get a real estate attorney to advise you. This is a substantial fine. You need to get professional assistance. Do it now.

You can't remove a sink in Florida without a plumbing license so it makes sense that the demo was permitted work.

Inspection has plenty of leeway on enforcing the doubled fine. I'd grab a handful of tissues and try the crying-in-their-office act before I'd get a lawyer.

Joe was thinking tissues, I was thinking two dozen donuts...

Removing cabinets & counters & sink needing a permit? Would be absurd even in California.

Are you saying they want a permit to replace a faucet and/or a sink? If not please provide photos of status at the time permit was issued.

Opening up walls, removing bearings, windows, etc. maybe.

This should be appealed with the building department.

Also, that is a crazy high permit fee for a kitchen remodel, not to mention the "fine" which sounds more like a fundraiser.

What was the delay about?

It does sound strange that the demo work required a permit. My kitchen reno “began” when my husband bought a new refrigerator and it was too big for the space so he pulled an upper cabinet off a wall. It was 2 years before we demoed the rest of the kitchen and did the work. I would research what work requires a permit in the area and see if the fine can be negotiated. And it is strange that the inspector found out about the demo.

Not strange at all ... used to live in CA and when city/town inspectors drove around to job sites they sometimes took note of any other construction on the way and then compared them to open permits. Usually the tip off is neighbors that call and complain about something. Bottom line, is that all they really cared about was collecting those permit fees!

Someone i know here in NYC had a visit from an inspector, who said there were some reports that he had debris in his backyard. He said he didn’t have any debris there, and that the inspector did not find any. The inspector was in awe of his house, saying it was the most beautiful he had seen. While in the backyard, the inspector didn’t see debris - but he saw the beautiful deck/structure and was asking questions about it. Next thing, this friend of mine gets a notice in the mail of a 50k fine for not having proper permits for the deck work. My friend knows a good real estate attorney and when it went to court, the fine was reduced to less than 1,000 dollars.

Neighbors.......!8 years ago, I ripped built ins from a family room while clients were away. In an effort to get the refuse to the curb ? I dragged it all, nails sticking out, to the curb by myself, and told my contractor, come get it - I'm cleaning the darn garage! ( dumpster wasn't needed )

It wasn't there 20 minutes and there is a knock HARD on the door. Another. Harder. Thinking it's contractor Bob, I yell a few friendly obscenities. "Are you the homeowner maam"" ......."No, who are you?"......." I am the town building inspector. Are you redoing a basement with no permit?! "No sir, I'm ripping out ugly built ins . Wanna come in?"

No maam, but the neighbor called the town........."

You only have to do what the building inspector is authorized to do. If the building code does not authorize the building inspector jurisdiction over demolition, the building inspector is acting outside of his authority.

*This is for entertainment purposes only and is not to be construed as legal advice. Consult a local construction attorney

A Pinellas county Florida building inspector sent 6 citations to 6 local contractors for improper advertising in our local home improvement magazine. $500.00 a pop and each of us paid it, then the $35.00 local license fee so we didn't get fined again.

I would get the inspector’s phone number and call him personally. Let him know that you were unaware what was going on at the property and that you had informed the contractor NOT to work until the permits were approved. You need to do this not only to explain the situation in hope that it can be resolved, but also because you really don’t want the inspector to view your project as a problem. He needs to know that you, the homeowner, did not approve this.

Also, look on your city planning code site and find out what the definition of ”demo” is.

If the inspector does not back down, and the removal of cabinets is not considered a true demo that requires a permit, then call the supervisor of the planning department and explain the situation to him, or send in an email.

If the fine is upheld, dealing with the contractor will be tricky. If he pays the fine, one way or the other you will actually be the one paying for it. It may also cause bad feelings during the project. Maybe splitting the fine with him will work to preserve your relationship. It sucks, but if you still want to work with this contractor, it may be the best way forward.

I had something similar happen many years ago with my house in AZ. The contractor started demoing before permits were pulled. All that was removed was tile, filthy carpet and a fake brick laminate from a kitchen wall (not the wall itself). My neighbor complained that I was tearing down a brick wall without a permit (I didnt find this out until after it was resolved). I‘m not sure the fine was justified, but I ended up paying it anyway (it was no where as high as your fine is).

The inspector has it in for this contractor for some reason. You should have a serious talk with them before you even think of talking to the building department. That is a department of little gods, and you cannot go in there and try to knock them down to human status, or your build will be beset by even more attention to detail that will always result in a red tag.

When I lived in Philadelphia, there were 10 building inspectors for a city of 1.5 million people. Contractors laughed at me when I asked about permits. Nobody pulled them for anything. We had the entire foundation under our kitchen rebuilt, a powder room installed where there had not been one before, and our staircase rebuilt all without a permit. Perhaps this is why homes collapse and explode all the time in Philly. A Philly friend once moved into a house with an electrical outlet *inside* their bathroom shower.