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davidahn

CORNER CABINET ANALYSIS PART II

2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago

Hello, GW/Houzz forum dwellers. This is an informational post, not a request for help, but I welcome posts that add to the age-old question: what the heck do I do with this damned corner?!?

About 11.5 years ago, I did exhaustive research and analysis of corner base cabinet solutions. I considered the corner drawer, the 35" Super Susan, the Hafele Magic Corner, the half moon, the dead corner (just leave the corner blocked off), and compared efficiency vs the gold standard, drawer banks. I analyzed the cabinet footprint and usable space of each solution. I did not analyze space lost due to inaccessible areas. We went with what I called the "Comatose corner," not quite dead, but very inaccessible. Turned out we could store a lot of stuff, we just couldn't get it back out.

We're now planning a remodel in a new kitchen, and it turns out 1) there aren't too many new options now that we didn't have in 2011, and 2) my calculations were a bit off (I somehow assumed 25" depth rather than the standard 24"). The basic gist was correct, but I really didn't get to the crux of the question: what is the bottom line best, based on usable space AND accessibility? And which loses the least amount of usable/accessible space?

So I've updated my analyses to narrow the options to just 36" corner cabinets (L-shaped) vs 48" blind cabinet (linear with approx. 19.5" opening). I did not do 33" corners or <48" blind cabs for the same reason: the openings are too small to access anything.

Last time, I chickened out on the overall best solution, what I called the "Custom Corner", which was inspired by the Magic Corner, but with much larger baskets/shelves. It was too hard to build. This time, I was 99% decided on simply leaving the 24 x 24" corner dead so I could maximize the remaining base cabinets (I had massive 30" wide drawer banks AND 12" pullouts!). But then I pulled out my old drawings and tinkered a bit. This time, I'm working with a carpenter to build what I now call the "XY Slide," because it pulls out (Y axis), then slide right (X axis).

I think my XY Slide is nearly ideal for corners. It allows use of 80% of the footprint (the gold standard 24" wide drawer bank uses 83%), and gives full access to the two outer shelves, and 75% access to the inner larger shelves. This solution is great for large bulky items like big stock pots, etc., not so great for small items.

Edit 2-25-2024: I added a second version of my XY Slide because it will be hard to reach the deeper parts of the large sliding tray, so I shrank the inside tray to also pull out. I'm still not sure if I want to maximize storage for large bulky items or for accessibility.

EDIT 2-25-2024 for accuracy/completeness:

Made notations in the diagrams more consistent in language

Uploaded better formatted images, divided into existing options vs my proposed XY Slide option

Updated the XY Slide into 2 versions: max space vs max access.

Added a bit more to the XY slide paragraph above.

NEW ANALYSES:

Let's be clear: corners suck. All the "solutions" have severe tradeoffs between space and accessibility. Even drawers lose space compared to shelves, yet everyone chooses them because the accessibility trumps the loss of space. The important thing may not even be that you have the "best" solution, but rather the best attitude about its strengths outweighing its weaknesses.

The most accessible solution, the corner drawers, offer the least space, losing 725 s.i. and offering only 30.6% of the space compared to shelves.

Objectively, the dead corner (blocking off the corner) and simply adding 9" to the drawer banks on either side (compared to a 36" corner cab) or 21" to one side (compared to a 48" blind cabinet) offers more additional storage ((373.5 s.i. and 436 s.i. respectively, vs. 321 s.i.) and less space loss (675.5 vs 725 s.i.) than the corner drawer solution, and have the benefit of equally easy access but wider, rectangular (and therefore more usable) drawers than the corner drawers. This was a surprisingly not sucky option IMHO.

The next most wasteful is the comatose corner, if you just count the accessible space, but it still offers more accessible space than the corner drawer (347 vs 321 s.i., but 3-4 corner drawers easily outdoes 2 pullouts). But the large but difficult to reach inner trays offer WAY more large item storage for a total of 78.4% of shelves.

The Hafele Magic Corner loses 513 s.i. of space, and is just 51% efficient compared to shelves, primarily because it's designed for 19" deep cabinets and loses storage in the deepest recesses d/t the shelves having to fit through the 19" door opening. Definitely more space efficient than the corner drawer, but still abysmal IMO.

The Super Susan (assuming shelves under the susan) offers relatively inaccessible corners, so I won't count them, but still not too shabby at 65% of the storage of shelves, but significantly more accessible than shelves. (Incidentally, a 9" wide drawer bank offers 65% of the storage of shelves, but as you go wider, drawers get much more efficient, going up to 86% by 36" width.)

The LeMans was too funky shaped for me to get into the math, sorry! I struggled to try to estimate the pie shape of the Susan, LOL.



Image 1 Link (Comparison)

Image 2 Link (XY Slide)

Comments (26)

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    This a great! But Houzz reduces the quality of the image to where it is virtually unreadable. Can you post each image indivifually? Or link to a dropbox, etc?

  • 2 years ago

    OMG "analysis paralysis".

    I agree with Patricia. Our Medallion corner cabinet came with a two level lazy susan installed and I have a ton of stuff in there and never have an issue with anything falling over the rimmed edge and everything is easily accessible from the front hinged door opening.

  • 2 years ago

    I'm very happy with my corner drawers. Top drawer is my knife storage and below are potholders and dish towels with rarely used glassware on the bottom drawer. I've had lazy susans and hated them because it meant I had to bend down to see what I needed to take out.



  • PRO
    2 years ago

    I have two corner cabinets with the LeMans drawers. LOVE THEM!!!

    Much preferred to Lazy Susans.


    Adirondack in Blue · More Info


  • 2 years ago

    I love my lazy Susan with the sides. Never had anything fall. My kitchen is small and I preferred the design of the door rotating inside the cabinet. I did custom cabinets to maximize my space since my kitchen is small.

  • 2 years ago

    I am remodeling right now and agree with Diana about the Lemans.


    My cabinet person STRONGLY disliked using the design shown by cpartist. Said that it wastes a lot of space. I did not verify that comment, because I liked the look of the Lemans anyway.



  • 2 years ago

    FYI, the Lemans unit can be installed on either side of the corner.

  • 2 years ago

    Our old kitchen had 2 corners (a U kitchen with fridge on one side, sink in the middle, and range on the other side), and when I was planning a remodel I looked at every possible corner solution I could find. I ended up with one super susan for small appliances and colanders, and a dead corner with drawers on each side.

    For me it came down to utilizing the spaces as efficiently as possible for MY needs. I had storage for large, seldom used items, so I didn't need hard-to-access space. I had drawer storage for colanders of dry goods, and pots and pans. What I didn't have was nearly enough drawers, and the only place to put the was on each side of the corner.

    I put in a 4-drawer stack 18" wide for miscellaneous small utensils; towels and dish cloths; rolling pins and other baking supplies; a tub for potatoes. The other side of the corner had a 3-drawer stack with cooking utensils on the top, pots and pans next, and canisters of dry goods on the bottom. There is no way I could have gotten all of those things into any other corner solution.


    The bottom line is that there NO single best way to utilize a corner. It completely depends on individual needs and the rest of the kitchen.

  • 2 years ago

    @Diana Bier Interiors, LLC can you please be more specific why you prefer your LeMans drawers to Lazy Susans? I do not understand the difference. From your photo it looks like a Lazy Susan to me. I had thought the "Magic Corner" cabinets were the best, buy my info may be outdated.

    And then there is the "Super Susan". I am getting a headache from this.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    If you are comparing cabinet to cabinet, I feel like a super susan ( it has a 32" turntable vs a 28" ) is using the most of its interior space. Second to that is the LeMans cabinet. This needs to be seen in person to really be appreciated.

    The bigger consideration is the actual layout. If you have, for example, a 12" cabinet then lazy susan then a 15" cabinet, you may be better off with the Lemans on the left ( 12" cab plus 36" side of lazy susan ) and a 24" cabinet with rollouts or drawers adjacent to it.

    Best of luck to everyone with their corners!

  • 2 years ago

    My cabinet person STRONGLY disliked using the design shown by cpartist. Said that it wastes a lot of space. I did not verify that comment, because I liked the look of the Lemans anyway.

    I had the Lemans in my condo kitchen. Hated it too. It meant first I had to open the door, then pull out the Lemans. And in reality, I probably get as much stuff in my drawers as I did in the Lemans.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    RoyHobbs, the Lemans unit has 2 levels that can be fully pulled out independently of one another. The lazy Susans sometimes are independent, but the ones that have the cabinet fronts attached are not. I lived with 4 lazy susans in my old kitchen--2 upper and 2 lower--for many years and they were state-of-the-art at that time. They were the type that had to rotate together, and it was difficult to access the lower ones, since you had to bend down to get to the bottom level. Also even with those little sides, things would fall into the cabinet and be forgotten (where is the oregano?? I guess I need to buy more lol).

    The Lemans units fully extend so you can see everything more easily without having to get down on your knees. They are also larger and can hold large pots/bowls/baking dishes.

    What you choose depends on your preference and what you want to store. CPArtist's drawers would be more appropriate for utensils and small items; I suppose pots and bowls would be harder to fit in them.

  • 2 years ago

    I imagine there is a YouTube video showing the Lemans' unit in action. The pull out from the inside of the cabinet into the kitchen. There are also ones for tall cabinets (not just base and wall).

  • 2 years ago

    The house we rented while building our current house had the Lemans corner deal. Hated it. Current house has a super susan and our previous house had a super susan. I like them so much better for what we store in them. We do not store pots, pans, bowls etc in them. We store jarred sauces, canned tomato products on the top one and bread crumbs, taco shells and some other things on the bottom one. Have never had anything fall off.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Here's a video showing how the Lemans units work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUsrW1Y8GHk

    And a Super Susan:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o38gM6hsHrg

    I have a Super susan in my vacation home, but I much prefer the Lemans.

    There's no right or wrong, it's what works for you.

  • 2 years ago

    We have super sussans in two corners in our small U-shaped kitchen, and they work great! I even keep obscure mixing liquours in the corners of each shelf! :)

  • 2 years ago

    Rev A Shelf?

  • 2 years ago

    What you choose depends on your preference and what you want to store. CPArtist's drawers would be more appropriate for utensils and small items; I suppose pots and bowls would be harder to fit in them.

    Diana is correct that I wouldn't be able to fit pots and bowls in my corner drawers but thankfully I have several large lower drawers for all my bowls, pots, and even my ice cream maker. :) I needed a spot for my knives, potholders, dish towels and small glass containers and this does the job.

    There's no right or wrong, it's what works for you.

    Yes!

  • 2 years ago

    Just a quick note to those who already commented, if you’re interested I updated the OP with more comments and figures and updated images.

    And this whole post is more informational than some kind of quest for truth, LOL. Corners involve HUGE tradeoffs, and everyone has different priorities,so there’s no one right answer. Hopefully some of this data will help solidify your decision. Some of my findings were eye opening to me, especially how competitive simply closing off the corner and simply widening the adjoining drawers is with corner drawers, and probably saves you a bit of money.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Totally off-topic, D Ahn, but your little dog is adorable!

  • 2 years ago

    The LeMans is awesome if you want to store big stuff. We have oversized pots and pans and our Dutch oven, big colander, salad spinner, ginormous bowl, etc. I imagine I might prefer a super Susan for small stuff?

  • 2 years ago

    Here’s the Hafele Magic Corner in my very small 1914 Craftsman kitchen. I think it’s great!

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Wow that holds a lot!

    Love your kitchen, chinacatpeekin!

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Unfortunately, houzz reduces the images to unreadability.

  • 2 years ago

    chinacatpeekin I love your kitchen and your stove!