In my limited experience, I know some people who have requested to leave out the fixtures and cabinetry in an entire bathroom, or an entire kitchen, if they are buying two units and combining, or all the millwork so they could have better installed, and in every case the "allowance" they would get to do so was such a negligible amount of money that it made no sense.

"check out this one"

Do I have to read it?

Tell the builder to leave the uppers in the garage. Sell them on CL or Marketplace. I'd first negotiate to have the much more functional 36"+ wide all drawer base cabinets put into the plan. This could eat up a lot of the allocation from the uppers. Get soft close full extension. Walk away if you have to. Do all the specification determination before you try to negotiate. Don't ask the builder to do the research for a one-off job. Many times more likely to be accepted if you submit a completely designed and spec'ed plan with your request.

Builders are in a hurry. They go like locusts from neighborhood to neighborhood. Bet a lawyer could slow their process down and that will get their attention.

It's 800k for a reason. Even mid sized cities, new construction? This is not a lot of money, unfortunately.

He's not going to budge, that I will assure you.

How about showing the floor plan for this build?

Flags I see in an online pic meant to SELL YOU?

WHY does the tile not reach the bottom of the hood?

Who does the gap? Nobody.

Lack of drawers lower cabs as many have mentioned.

Is that a textured ceiling I see??

What is the climate? What are the flooring options if you don't select tile?

At the end of the day, they own the land and they will sell and build the houses. If they do not want to deviate from their business model, that is up to them and well within their rights. And as such if you cannot get the items you want you have the right to walk away. You cannot force them to change their business model if they do not want to change it. Remember they are a tract home builder, they make their money on their allowable upgrades and speed.

Is this It? More pics

https://www.realtor.com/community-detail/Roam-at-Mountain-Green_5903-N-Angels-Landing_Mountain-Green_UT_84050_Q717000077565

My advice? Love it or leave it.

You aren't getting a single thing beyond what they are showing as their "best" . I'd do a lot of due diligence......

“Builders are in a hurry. They go like locusts from neighborhood to neighborhood. Bet a lawyer could slow their process down and that will get their attention.”

Developers hire the best land use attorneys in the state. You are not going to slow down their development by hiring just any attorney. Even then there is usually a rider in the purchase contract that deducts the costs to defend the zoning from the sales price. So it usually costs them nothing to defend zoning challenges while costing home owners hundreds of thousands for mostly unwinnable cases.

If you want to sue them about the home quality, you have to buy the home. It is almost impossible to get standing until after you completely own the home. Almost all sellers are better off selling the home immediately rather than suing.

Houzz.com is full of posts where a homebuyer's expectations weren't aligned with the builder's capabilities.. Production builders aren't set up to deal with much, if any, level of customization-- irrespective of price point. Changes slow down the build and each change is an opportunity for a mistake. If you're unhappy with what a production builder offers you'll need to decide whether to move on. Trying to make them what they're not will be an exercise in frustration for all parties.

One other reason cabinets don't go to the ceiling ( or a soffit, anymore, for that matter), is that the ceiling does not have to be as flat if you are leaving a biggish gap between the tops of the cabinets and the ceiling as it does when you are taking cabinets to the ceilings with minimal trim. Even with substantial molding there is scribing and finish work required to get a perfectly flat cabinet box tied into what is probably not a perfectly flat ceiling.

Leaving the space above the cabinet was not something that originated in the higher end of the housing market to give a "lighter more airy" appearance (one of the things I used to hear when people used to tear out their soffits in favor of the space.) Leaving the space above the cabinet is what you saw in less expensive builds and apartment buildings. And then it got turned into a "look" at any price point because builders realized it took a lot less work and was cheaper. And then ceilings got higher across the board, and it was still cheaper.

Wow - all I can think about is the accumulation of dust on top of those cabinets, and the difficulty of reaching them to clean, esp. as one gets older. But if you can afford someone to clean them regularly then that's not a problem.

Would you consider this a deal breaker?

This is an opinion question. My opinion: Yes, it's a deal-breaker ... it's one of the first things I noticed about the kitchen. I much, much prefer the to-the-ceiling look: it's calmer, it looks "finished", it provides more storage, and it removes an area where dust will build-up. Especially if the kitchen is open to other rooms, this is a pretty important design feature.

Thoughts:

- An option, which I don't think has been mentioned yet: Have the builder take these shorty cabinets to the ceiling ... and add an open shelf underneath. The tile backsplash is probably an add-on ... skip it, have a carpenter of your choice add the shelf later, then add whatever backsplash you desire.

- Another option: If you're short like me, have the cabinet mounted a bit lower than usual /omit the usual crown at the top ... and then add a short cabinet up top once the house is yours. If you're going with painted cabinets, this will be do-able.

- I would not put in cheap cabinets /replace them myself. First, it's an extremely expensive idea ... that alone would be a solid NO for me. Second, it's a wasteful idea ... no one's going to buy those cheapest cabinets on the resale market, and they'll end up in a landfill.

- While I like the creative thinking in saying, "Skip cabinets, choose them yourself", I think it'll only work if the OP is paying cash for the house. If the house is being financed, the bank will demand that the house be completely finished.

- Continuing that thought, the builder doesn't want to sell you half a house. Even if he agreed to leave the kitchen "unfinished", he'd give you such a small credit that you'd never accept it.

- This kitchen appears to be full of flashy things to attract the buyer's eye, but I don't see a lot of quality or high-function items that'll make the kitchen a joy to live in. Having said that, I'll ask gently: OP, are you looking for a decent basic kitchen or a high-function kitchen in which every detail is carefully thought out? No right or wrong, but you'll find that this board leans toward the second.

- Doesn't matter at all whether $800K is a lot or a little in .your area.

- People who say, Production builders follow a script are right. This isn't a bad thing, as it allows you to get a lot of house for less money ... but it does mean they cut corners on details like this. They aren't going to change their business model for you ... as someone else said, if you don't buy this house, they'll find someone else within a couple weeks.

- No, space above the cabinets doesn't feel at all "light and airy" to me.

- Yes, builders are putting in shorty cabinets because it's cheaper and easier.

- As for cleaning, my classroom had a gap between the cabinets and the ceiling. I worked hard on it one teacher workday /laid a dozen or so strips of carefully sized newspaper up top ... and then at the end of each semester I removed the top strip. Wow, the gunk that accumulated. I would hate to do this in my own home.

This is not a viable option in my opinion, and it may vary by bank or location, or other factors, but a "kitchen" where I live requires a connected stove, and a plumbed in sink. There are no minimum requirements for kitchen cabinets or counterspace. If such things are there, they have to meet certain code requirements, but there is really nothing that says a kitchen has to be anything more than a sink and a stove. I've looked at houses that were sink, stove and fridge and that's it, and they were mortgageable,

Every county/city in every state in the US has different requirements for issuing a Certificate of Occupancy for a newly built home. All you can do is ask and know what you want to project manage after the sale has closed.

When did cupboards to the ceiling become “deal beakers?” When did that begin to matter in the “design” world? I can barely reach the first shelf in my cupboards (18” above my counters). What do people put up on those prized top shelves? I am sorry…but I guess I don’t get it. But if it matters to the OP, it matters.

My mother was very short (I think the cabinets were actually set at 16") and there was a flush soffit above the cabinets (1960s house) and the cabinets were arranged by horizontal bands, not vertically, so the top shelf in every cabinet had rarely used things: holiday and specialty dishes, thermoses, specific pieces of tupperware or whatever that were not used regularly, and so forth .

@ptreckel - for me, personally, it would be a deal breaker because of the need to dust up there. I have a serious dust allergy, so I want to have all-enclosed cabinets without horizontal space on top. And for short people cleaning up there is a big pain. And also for older people.

I like to have the rarely used things in the upper cabinets - fondue pot, holiday dishes, extra ice trays, whatever.

But what is a deal-breaker to me (as a short senior citizen with a dust allergy) might not be to you.

“I did not get the ladder out and clean the tops every week....my bad!”

“Wow - all I can think about is the accumulation of dust on top of those cabinets”

This fearmongering is often promulgated on this Houzz page and causes people unnecessary stress. Yet most people when they climb up there find very little dust, especially in a newer home that is tighter and has a kitchen hood exhaust. And in any case, there’s an easy time saver. Put a layer of wax paper up there - it’s the perfect width. Then, when you are changing your smoke alarm batteries annually, pick up the old wax paper and put down new. Though you may find that there’s been so little dust accumulation you can leave the old wax paper till next time. If you are a senior and don’t want to climb, you can get a handyman or someone from the Task Rabbit app to do it, and to change the smoke alarm batteries too.

The ”dust fear” should not be a reason to want cabinets to meet the ceiling. The reasons are you like the appearance and you want the extra storage.

If you want to have kitchen cabinets that go to the cieling than that's what you should hold out for. Don't compromise on your ideas. You will regret it often. You are going to get 1 chance to build your dream home

When did cupboards to the ceiling become “deal beakers?” When did that begin to matter in the “design” world? I can barely reach the first shelf in my cupboards (18” above my counters). What do people put up on those prized top shelves? I am sorry…but I guess I don’t get it. But if it matters to the OP, it matters.

It's a better look: cleaner, more finished.

What goes into these shelves? Anything you want to store.
The ”dust fear” should not be a reason to want cabinets to meet the ceiling. The reasons are you like the appearance and you want the extra storage.

Two things can be true: Wanting to avoid dust + appearance can both be reasons to build the cabinets to the ceiling.

If you want to have kitchen cabinets that go to the cieling than that's what you should hold out for. Don't compromise on your ideas. You will regret it often. You are going to get 1 chance to build your dream home

Two questions:

- IS the OP building her dream house?

- Production builders just don't do what she wants; thus, she must make a decision.

Yeah, I would imagine that with regular and proper use of the the range hood, there should not be a lot of "grease-laden vapors" settling up there and with modern HVAC there really shouldn't be tons of dust to settle up there? I think it's an overstated concern in many cases.

You don't choose a production builder to build your "dream home" unless one of their standard models with whatever options are available happens to coincide perfectly with your dream.

@JAN MOYER yes thats it! 10 min from amazing skiing, which would be a dream for us.

I don't even like the Concept of "Dream Home" because that can raise a host of unrequited expectations and disappointment. A house is a place to live, and it could be a very nice place to live, while being far from "perfect". Very few people can afford perfection and I think the notion that everyone can have it if they only try hard enough leads to a lot of unnecessary disappointment.

gdionelli, I hear you! I am 4’10”. And 70 years old. And have allergies. According to many Houzzers, I am ancient and in need of grab bars on all my walls, etc. I do, however, refrain from dusting the tops of my open kitchen cabinets. My hope is that whatever grease is collecting there is keeping the dust from drifting down upon me. So far, so good. 😉

It shocked us when we moved to SoCal in 1996 and encountered the production builder subdivisions.
Truly, you could not change anything! And the prices for upgrading anything were absolutely insane. My best advice if you cannot live with the kitchen, is to upgrade nothing in it, then use the savings toward your dream kitchen after you’ve lived in the house for awhile.

Gosh, i love cabs to ceiling for shorter ceilings (mine are 8’4”) but as you go higher i often find the cab size overbearing. at any rate if this is a dealbreaker you probably need to go full custom build with the corresponding price tag. Or buy older and reno. this is not the reason i would give up on a track home for.

Yeah, I would imagine that with regular and proper use of the the range hood, there should not be a lot of "grease-laden vapors" settling up there and with modern HVAC there really shouldn't be tons of dust to settle up there?

It all depends on the quality of the hood. When I remodeled, I bought the best hood that I could afford at the time (and that was/is far from the best available) and did find that the amount of greasy deposition on neighboring surfaces decreased. However, it is still there and requires cleaning - but not from the top of cabinets, because mine do go to the ceiling. And I use that storage space, even though I have to use a chair (in the kitchen for that purpose) to reach. I do doubt that the OP would be getting anything better than "builder grade" which is what I replaced.

If you love the look of cabinets to the ceiling, then great. However, if the primary driver for going from a production home to a custom build is the dust above the cabinets, that seems like the tail wagging the dog.

First, that area is a dust sink. It actually removes dust from the air and deposits it in an area that is unlikely to be disturbed. So it removes airborne dust from your home without adding any dust to your home.

Next, do you all vacuum out your ductwork weekly? I assure you that your supply runs have plenty of dust and you are impacted by the dust far more than what sits mostly undisturbed above your cabinets.

Finally, if it really is a problem just get dust control mats up there. It will eliminate any recirculation and you just have to change the paper once a year.

@M Miller - you may call it fearmongering, but I am reaping the rewards, healthwise, for not taking such threats seriously. Maybe there won't be a lot of dust, but in my case I don't dare risk it. I don't cook with grease, and don't cook meat, so I don't expect any greasy residue.

Oh, why not add my two cents! Cabinets that go to the ceilings are non-negotiable for me.

You don't choose a production builder to build your "dream home" unless one of their standard models with whatever options are available happens to coincide perfectly with your dream.

Consider, too, that not everyone can afford a custom built home; a production home is less expensive.

A house is a place to live, and it could be a very nice place to live, while being far from "perfect". Very few people can afford perfection and I think the notion that everyone can have it if they only try hard enough leads to a lot of unnecessary disappointment.

True.

However, if the primary driver for going from a production home to a custom build is the dust above the cabinets, that seems like the tail wagging the dog.

Speaking only for myself, I'd want to-the-ceiling cabinets because they look so much better. Dust is a secondary factor.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of the advice on this thread is from posters that have never built a production or custom house.

Bichon, that is a good idea for a new thread! Have people list out the builds and remodels they have done.

I am just a humble homeowner but to me this kitchen looks lovely and balanced the way it is. I like the way the gray of the walls frames the cabinets on top. If these cabinets went to the ceiling I think they would look top-heavy, and to me the kitchen looks more spacious if the cabinets are not crammed into all the available space. Plus, such a PITA to drag out the stepstool to get things off the top shelves. So this would not bother me at all. Just a contrasting viewpoint :-)

WHY does the tile not reach the bottom of the hood?

Nevermind tile, why isn't the hood in the proper spot?

9' ceiling and that standard hood vent is all the way up. usually 30" of clearance between stove and the bottom for optimum venting. where it's placed in that pic? useless.

the other thing I see are those floor tiles. anything over 12" should be set no more than 33% offset. those are 50. I wonder what else they're breezing on through?

(and yes, the gray trend is over. those floors would be a deal breaker for me)

The bigger question here is, "Are there choices that are not so GRAY?" As in yelling loudly and aggressively how gray it is. That is what would be a deal breaker. Those GRAY tiled stairstep floors induce vertigo and nausea.

Contact the cabinet supplier and pay them to ship the size cabinets you want in "error" (wink-wink-nudge-nudge); that way the cabinet installers will install the cabinets that are delivered to the site and everyone will be happy. You will pay less than having to pay for the builder's kitchen and the remodeling of the kitchen. You may have to give the installers a healthy tip.

It is a long shot, but worth a try.

If the builder will not build the type of home that you really want, why would you sign up to have him build you a home? Buy one of his already completed models and paint/remodel that--at least you will know exactly what you are getting at the time of purchase. Or buy a pre-owned home nearby. If this is just a tract house development without any special amenties (golf course, country club, for example) , then I guess I don't understand why the next development down the road is much different. I know your post mentioned "pristine", and maybe there are no homes built behind this particular house at the moment. However, I would expect more streets and houses as your developer progresses.

I am reaping the rewards, healthwise, for not taking such threats seriously. Maybe there won't be a lot of dust, but in my case I don't dare risk it.

That is a confirmation bias formally known as post hoc ergo propter hoc (following it therefore because of it).

No one has ever been bothered by the dust that is on top of their cabinets. That is not how dust allergies work and I have allergies and asthma (rare in adults but... yay me!). Dust bothers people when it is in the air, it doesn't bother people while on their cabinets. Dust that is on the cabinets will not bother you until it comes off the cabinets and, assuming you have molding as shown in the OP's pics, it is one of the few places where dust is going to struggle to become airborne. The dust on your shoes is going to be an order of magnitude worse than the dust on your cabinets as would be an attached garage...

The problem is perspective. There are a thousand other things you can do to eliminate dust in your home that would be a much better use of resources than cabinets to the ceiling. If you ever see a place that you haven't dusted in a year or two and notice it has less dust than other areas that you do regularly dust, that is a problem. That means that the dust accumulating in that spot is moving back into the air.

"I'm pretty sure that a lot of the advice on this thread is from posters that have never built a production or custom house."

Logical fallacy of relevance; ad hominem circumstantial. You have to address the argument (deal breaker or not), not the circumstances (building experience) of the interlocutors.

My ex-wife and I were childless by choice. That does not mean we are unable to know if your children are brats. Same thing.

"why would you sign up to have him build you a home? Buy one of his already completed models and paint/remodel that...Or buy a pre-owned home nearby...I guess I don't understand why the next development down the road is much different."

@HU-910663146 The OP specifically said, "Inventory is painfully low in this area (like others), so its either wait or build (which you’re really waiting either way)."

You seem out of touch with the real estate market of the past 2 years. In many areas - like the OP's - the new-construction homes are sold fast, and there are no completed models that remain for sale. Nor is there a "next development down the road". And the existing older homes are also in short supply because the vast majority of homeowners are sitting on mortgages at a fraction of current mortgage rates. So they aren't moving. If only the current real estate market were as available and blasé as you described.

Not a deal breaker for me, but take my opinion with a grain of salt because i don’t care about such things. My primary concern when buying a house is LOCATION. BTW, in our area $800 k might get you a fixer upper 2 bedroom condo , if your’re lucky.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC For the first time ever, I have a slight disagreement with your comment. Even childless couples have experienced children especially if those children are brats. People who have never worked with a production or custom built house have never had that experience and are making a lot of assumptions based on I'm not sure what.

And just so production builders don't get totally thrown under the bus, I shared my experience with a production builder in this thread https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6415123/december-2023-how-is-your-build-going#n=140 The experience continues to be only positive. Closing is March 21.

When I clicked on the link that one of the posters above provided, it brought up a listing on Realtors.com for Angels Landing, Green Mountain, UT. When I clicked on Green Mountain, UT in the link, it showed 16 home communities (not houses) within 20 miles of that location with a list. When I quickly scanned those listings of communities, they looked like cookie-cutter housing developments being built by a number of different developers/builders.

Based on that and by the pictures which showed developments of homes on small lots surrounded by big parcels of vacant land, yes, it looked to me that there were others out there slapping these developments up down the road while the iron is hot. Has that iron cooled is a question that I don't have the energy or desire to research. But it certainly looked to me that there were other developments nearby and this undeveloped area is going to be filled in more with developments.

Et tu, Joe, eh? (with apologies to our Canadian friends.)

lmao........

Chispa , I started the discussion you suggested called How many houses have you built?

@bry911 - your comment re: ”post hoc ergo propter hoc” reminded me of:

1. Law school (torts professor loved repeating Latin quotes).

2. The West Wing - President Bartlett (Martin Sheen) (I think that was the name of the episode actually).

My experience building my home back in 1996 apparently was very different than how it is today. Maybe partially because it was a different time - maybe because my builder (stellar reputation and had built many houses) wasn’t a national builder.

I made quite a few changes to the original plans - including completely changing the entire kitchen layout (including increasing the size from around 230-240 sf to 410+ sf - also, increased the master bedroom closet from around 80 sf to a bit over 135 sf- at no extra cost). When I showed them the sketch of the kitchen I wanted - and asked if they could build it - the response was, ”We can build anything - as long as you’re okay with paying for it!”

I also added two more fireplaces (for a total of four) + moved two coat closets + changed configuration and increased size of laundry room + other changes (including making the island all counter height which everyone thought was an odd idea back then). I also did a combination of stained and painted trim/cabinets (in different rooms obviously) - which was also an ”unusual” request - no up-charge for stain grade wood.

Whenever I asked about making a change (even after breaking ground) - I only was charged for any increased cost in materials (except no charge for upgraded wood as stated above).

Houses were selling pretty quickly (at least in my area) - so, they weren’t being “accommodating” because of a slow market.

OP - I read some reviews re: your builder. I would be extremely hesitant to purchase a home built by that company. Maybe quality of work has gone down in general for all similar builders. I was shocked by some of the photos I saw.

We did this in a vacation rental and it did get quite greasy up there. It was a microwave hood. We are talking like annual blade scrapping of grease. That being said, we never went back and built a soffit.

And FWIW - it was an electric range and I really doubt too many people brought a wok with them on vacation. I am really not sure how they created so much grease. Maybe some brought a deep fryer for fish?

Just an anecdote. The wax paper would have been a good idea.

I would have no concern from a functional prospective on my personal home. And we did have it on our personal home now that I think about it. Over cabinet lights were kind of nice. This isn't a deal breaker IMO.

Now - tract building in general by shoddy builders is an exercise in frustration. Crap materials that you wind up replacing far too early. My sibling-in-laws have been spending big money on fixes/retrofits the last 2 years on a house they bought.

Some of the quality issues depends on how thorough your inspectors on in your jurisdiction. Making sure insulation and HVAC are reasonable; foundation done well etc.