Retrofit vs Brick to Brick Question

6 months ago

I'm getting new windows and decided to do brick to brick installation because I want to make sure the wood is ok and have it done properly. There is a company that has an aluminum/vinyl clad window I like but this was their response about doing 'brick to brick'. I would love to hear if anyone has any advice on this. (My house is 2x4 construction)

"yesterday we have discussed your project with our technicians going through the pictures. This may be a tricky installation because we don’t exactly know whats hidden behind the aluminum exterior cappings, all being different sizes, jambs missing or having different depths – so other option to supply and install windows for your house would be to use H3 Transcend Replacement Retrofit. This is exactly the same product as regular H3 except it doesn’t come with jamb extensions and can be installed without removing your existing casings and jambs, so installers avoid running into issues related with removal of existing jambs and casings on the interior."

"This is an older house with virtually no jamb extensions because there’s no room for it. Some of ones that you currently have, have different depths. Also some exterior aluminum caps are different sizes overlapping windows in different capacity and we just don’t know what’s behind it, if there’s any structural detail, if there’s a reason they were installed like that.
With going retrofit we would at least cross out one of the problems and leave the existing interior"

Featured Answer

PRO

Windows on Washington Ltd

6 months ago

Can you post up a picture or two? If the primary driver isn't total glass (i.e. frame size) area, and the retrofit was working before, there is nothing to say that it won't continue to work.

Are the current, possibly retrofit, windows capped as well? When we tear out a retrofit and capped window, we inspect all the wood that is under the capping (sill, old frame, trim, etc.). Most times, assuming the previous window was done properly, the wood is fine and drier that it ever way. Re-capping as part of the new window ensures that bulk moisture transfer to the wood is eliminated and all you are dealing with is some capillary draw which normally won't present as an issue.

Do you have an evidence of any leaks? I suppose you could remove some of the capping on one window and inspect the wood beneath, but that is rarely done unless there is some history of leaks and the contractor is trying to get a handle of the scope so that the change orders aren't as significant.

I don't see anything in the prior commentary from the contractor as a red flag. Often times its more about correlating the verbiage of what the installer/contractor is seeing and thinking to what the homeowner is understanding. When you get into exterior trim removal, rough opening sizes, brick openings, drainage planes, etc., it can be hard for the contractor to effectively relate what they are saying. I find that it is always easiest on the job site and maybe with some selective demo of the trim/opening to demonstrate.

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Comments (6)

PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
6 months ago
A brick to brick install introduces a couple of issues. Depending on trim width on the sides, you may not hvae the opening width depending on the rough opening. You may also interfere with the drainage plane and now have your window opening straddling the pathway of moisture egress from the brick. There is a reason that a "brick to brick" install is not the norm in the case of a wood framed home (i.e. vs. structural brick wall).

If your point is to preserve opening size, I full tear out installation is an option (sometimes also not recommended in a brick opening though) or going with a narrower profile window.
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Sarah T thanked Windows on Washington Ltd
Sarah T
Original Author
6 months ago
last modified: 6 months ago
@Windows on Washington Ltd I don't really care if the opening is slightly smaller, I believe the windows in there right now are also retro fit. My main concern is doing this right because I love my home and want to do what I can to make sure things are done properly and will last a long time. I'm curious if this is a red flag of the company that their installers aren't compentent because the other companies I saw didn't mention this.. or if it's actually the company noticing things others didn't and telling me upfront and being honest about it.
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Sarah T
Original Author
6 months ago
last modified: 6 months ago
@Windows on Washington Ltd

Sure, here are a few photos (one of the interior and the other two are a front and side window exterior). The windows are about 35" x 50". Some windows are from 1983 and the others are from 1994. The house was built in the 40s.

I think the capping that exists is most likely the original as it looks like a lot of the other war homes on my street so that may not have been replaced but I'd like to replace it since it's looking rough in some spots. They did say they would replace the capping outside and trim inside (it's not the nicest). I don't think there are leaks, we've been here 2ish years and no issues when raining and we had someone come in and check for damp areas (there is a musty scent upstairs but it's prob just old house because they didn't find anything concerning).

The window guy mentioned the replacement line from sierra as well because the new construction h3 windows have a large jamb extention and apparently my windows have barely any jamb and the replacement line doesn't come with a jamb.
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PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
5 months ago
Are you planning on doing siding at any point? If so, the most "comprehensive" install would be a new construction installation with flanges and taped into the WRB and drainage plane.

Some of my previous commentary about a masonry opening don't apply here as I understood your "brick to brick" comment to be in reference to a masonry exterior.

The capping will all come off as part of the new install (i.e. capping around the window) and the trim can be inspected at that point.

If you want maximum glass and the most detailed installation, combining a siding and window project would be the best application here.
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Sarah T
Original Author
5 months ago
@Windows on Washington Ltd thanks but new siding is definitely not in budget and the existing is in pretty good shape.
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