The island 10' × 4.67'

Why are you not making the soffits flush with the upper cabinets? What is inside the soffits?

The first thing you do is cut the soffit back to upper cabinet depth! A foot of BULKHEAD hanging out/over and looming is going to look like hell, even with a 12' ceiling.....which, is WHY 12'?

Is this a remodel?

In a single heartbeat, I would drop that kitchen ceiling to ten feet max.

Also, the number of pot lights in the living space is absurd swiss cheese in the ceiling. You use some lamps and cut those back!

We can't read the dimensions of anything........

WOW a12' ceiling anywhere is not a great idea and in a kitchen never . Your GC is not the person to get to do the lighting layout in the space but seems he is doing okay but the soffit no way as it is planned and where is your kitchen designer in this whole thing. I like pot lights in the kitchen but the rest of the space maybe some on the perimeter to give some overall light but layered lighting is what you do in those spaces .We need measurements please on that drawing , IMO get an actul lighting designer to help before you take the next step. I never like a sink directly across from a range since that area is the busy part of a kitchen and I am not sure where the fridge is but make sure you do not cross infront of the range to go from fridge to sink . All base cabinets should be drawers .Do not do integrated LED lights in a kitchen you want to be able to change bulbs and another reason for 10' ceiling max I like all LED 4000K in a kitchen and of course the higher the ceiling the less light you get in your work space from ceiling lights . Where exactly are you in this build ?

I don't see any task lighting layer, only ambient and decorative. With high ceiling you'll need high lumen output spot lighting on the work zones to meet the 70-80 footcandles or 450 lumens minimum recommended at the counter Positioned 3-6" in from the counter edge to avoid shadowing from your body and hands. Maybe undercabinet can meet some of that in some work zones if you use WAC or a similar quality source. Not for the sink. Architectural/commercial grade from DMF,Link, Element Link, USAI Link, Lucifer Lighting Link, in 2", 3" or 4" and a lighting designer not a contractor is the way to proceed.

Love the 12 ft ceilings throughout my FL house, which allows 10 ft high large sliding doors with views out to the pool, pond and golf course. We don't all live in cold climates!

The lighting plan looks fine, similar to mine, which was done by two lighting consultants!

What do you mean by "flush" for the lights? You don't want the actual "bulb" to be flush, that part you want to be recessed up into the recessed light housing. You get less glare when the light source is up higher in the can.

I would talk to a kitchen designer about the soffit. I don't love the look of it overhanging the cabinets. I have wood beams in my kitchen, so I have open space above my stacked cabinets.

Here are some photos I saved when going through my build.

Mine is similar to this, so I'm biased and prefer open space above the cabinets. To me it doesn't make sense to go to the trouble of paying for high ceilings and then you constrict/enclose the visual space back up!

Westlake Project · More Info

12 ft ceilings - open above cabinets

Escavera Residence · More Info

12 ft ceilings - soffit overhanging cabinets

Lake Front Country Estate · More Info

12 ft ceilings - open above

North San Antonio Kitchen Remodel · More Info

12 ft ceilings - overhanging soffit

Far View Custom · More Info

Make-up air may be too close to the range hood. Hope kaseki sees this thread.

Oof! I read your post wrong the first time and thought that the soffit was to extend 2" past the uppers. Sorry. So I'm deleting the non relevant stuff I posted earlier, and just posting 2 pics of a soffit that overhangs the counter. Both of these have wafer lights in the soffit. Just want to make sure that this is the look you want. I think the soffit is less noticeable in the 2nd picture because of the light cabinets and colorful backsplash.

I would suggest drawing furniture in the Family Room and Breakfast bay. It is not ideal to have only hot spots on your feet while you sit on the couch, or on an ottoman and the blank floor right next to it. A grid is standard fare for contractors, electricians, and DIYers in this room and bedrooms as they mistakenly think that is good lighting design.

For the Kitchen, it is about choices as nothing can be perfect. In the examples given by others, most of the poor task lighting locations are because of having beams - the fixture locations were a choice made for aesthetics and are perfectly acceptable for those reasons - it's a chosen tradeoff. Note you will not find inspo pictures at night.

In your situation, the soffit may be a good choice to tie in so many deep cabinets flanking a few standard upper cabinet depths. The lighting has been chosen to light up the aisle floors instead of the counters and inside any of the cabinets. I don't know if that is a good tradeoff here without more information. You could, as the layout exists, at the 12" deep upper cabinets add a 2"/3" fixture in the soffit overhangs.

Thanks for all the responses!

This is a remodel of an existing home in Florida. Many things I would have done differently with this home. It would require I build from scratch. So Im trying to work with what I can at this point. @JAN MOYER When you click on the image it shows better for me. Is that not the case for you? Some measurements are at the periphery of the drawing.

I have an interior designer who designed the kitchen along with a cabinet company she works with. She designed the soffits. I have learned the hard way that an interior designer is not a kitchen designer. But I'm trying to get through with the best outcome based where we are now. The architect, drew the plans simply following her plans, except that he reduced the number of lights.

We are pretty far. Cabinets ordered. Framing done for the soffits. Cabinet Install planned for the week after next. @Patricia Colwell Consulting

Is the make up air the vent that is in front of the hood? @John Liu
If so, it was decided to move it further into the family room. The make up air duct was placed in the soffit but it was designed for aesthetics by the designer. @Kendrah

@chispa This is the light recommended by the GC (attached) . So it doesn't looked "recessed". I do love the wood beam look but didn't know if it would fit a home with all marble floors . We didn't want to change the floors. I also feel like I don't have it in me to start over. Just trying to make the best of what can be easily changed.

I so wish we could start over!

Did they ever"elevate" the kitchen to a drawing to 3 dimensions?

Are the flush Topaz "recessed" due to a ceiling issue? You don't have a sku visible, and there are hundreds of these. What is temperature selection range?

The actual dimensions of everything is still hard to read.

We don't know how the kitchen relates to the outdoors, to the rest of the house, either.

I have no Idea what your two pendants are, other than they are 22". What is lumens/watts etc. What do they look like? Seems that is where 90% of your prep will be.

Basically, we're all in a bit of a vacuum for context. on the entire kitchen. It's marble floors.......its what else ? What counter, cabinet, etc. Is ANYTHING installed yet

I assume Subzero cooling, hope she and the cabinet co. got the specs exactly right.

Those look like retrofit lights, which you don't have to use if you are doing all new lighting.

I don't like those pancake lights because you get glare from them. You will see the "bulb" from across the family room.

Unless you specify exactly what you want, electrical subs will just get whatever his electrical supplier has that is the lowest price. What are the Lumens, CRI and Kelvins for those lights?

When we built I kept asking the electrical sub to show me what recessed lights he was going to install. Finally they bring a sample over. It was cheap technology from 10+ years before, with not enough Lumens for my 12 ft ceilings. We said no way and made an appointment with a mid/high end lighting showroom to discuss options. It cost us more money and we had to wait 4 weeks for delivery, but we've had crappy lights before when buying existing houses and weren't about to put them in a brand new house.

I only know your contractor selected 4" Topaz wafer lights.

On the box should be the model #, you have 2 choices for that criteria:

- RDL/4RND/9/5CTS, 550 lumens, Selectable

- RDL/43RND/9/WH-97, 530 lumens, 3000K

"Selectable" means you can choose from 2700K-5000K, the other fixture is set at 3000K.

The lumens on both 4" fixtures is too low for 12' ceilings and the Kitchen layout you have. You would need to bump up to a 6" fixture to get from 850-1050 lumens, and then use a dimmer. Wafer lights are dirt cheap, and to many people the flush lens also denotes a dirt cheap fixture that has lots of glare. I don't know if these fixture selections are appropiate for a $2+million home.

Yes, the Topaz definitely are retro fit.....Will you have glare at 10/12 feet? Maybe not. But I would have preferred something else.

Apparently, the plan with the absurd soffit extending one inch beyond counter top was an attempt to LOWER the "recessed" lighting to ten feet , and I see no reason for retro fit in that.

I'd still cut that framing back..... to upper cab depth.

@Kendrah do you mind sharing youyour designer. II'm having a hard time finding one on house.

Island lights

https://www.visualcomfort.com/kai-2-pendant-700tdkai2/#1661=9251&2461=59881

Counters are Taj mahal quartzite.

Wellllllllllll Pendants:

First issue : Integrated Led, which means.....when the led shall fail from anything? You put the pendant in a garbage can.

Equal issue:

749 lumens, (dispersed all over the room, not "forced" down to the island via a solid shade.)

and probably the "cage" lines reflected onto the ceiling. As to amount of light?

........ the equivalent of a 60 watt incandescent light bulb, and not a lot of light. Times two will equal 120...: ( both to light 10 feet of island.

I WOULD think long and hard on these.

Third:

The driver is IN the junction box, and having used a V.C recently as this, different style pendant, they are a royal PAIN!! in the u know what for installation.

The light you pictured is a flood with 110-degree dispersion and very low lumen output. Not the necessary task lighting needed.

"Framing is done for the soffits." They are merely studs nailed in place. They can come out at this stage in minutes. Much better than after they get drywalled. I'd ask for their removal.

M Series Commercial

4” Downlight

Features: Recessed, Adjustable, Wall Wash, Decorative, Warm Dim, Tunable White, Emergency

Lumens: 750 lm (9.5W), 1000 lm (12.5W), 1250 lm (14.3W), 1500 lm (14.3W), 2000 lm (24.5W), 2500 lm (27.5W), 3000 lm (34.0W), 3500 lm (40.5W)

Color Quality: 93 CRI, 2-step SDCM

Color Temperature: 2700K, 3000K, 3500K, 4000K, Warm Dim, Tunable White

Beam Spread: 15° Narrow Spot, 25° Spot, 40° Flood, 60° Wide Flood, 90° General Ambient

Dimming: 0-10V (1%), DALI-2 (0.1%)

Input: 120/277V

Installation: New Construction, Remodel

Trims: Round, Square, Hyperbolic, Pinhole, Wall Wash, Flangeless, Decorative, Vandal, Emergency

Finish: White, Black, Bronze, Clear Diffuse, Custom

Ratings: Energy Star, Declare Listed, RoHS Compliant, Wet Location, NSF/ASNI 2 Splash Zone Safe Listed, IP66, IK10, Anti-Microbial

Warranty: 5 year; 50,000 hours

You'll need the 3000 or 3500 lumens of these 4" recessed lights positioned 3-6"' in from the edge of your counter. Two offset for each work zone.

M Series Commercial - DMF Lighting

The chosen Topaz wafer lights are not retrofit fixtures. Retrofits have a short cord that screws into an Edison socket of an existing housing. Refer to Topaz's catalog <here>.

And, wafers have more glare regardless of height. The glare is caused when you are across the room and you can't help seeing that bright "starry" spot in your peripheral vision, which wafers are the worst offenders because of the flush lens.

Topaz does not make a regressed (a recessed baffle) fixture that is not a retrofit. To eliminate the wafer with Topaz, you would have to install a new construction housing and choose a retrofit, or choose another manufacturer altogether. Since you have an attic, using housings shouldn't be too limiting if you choose that direction. I have previously hinted that your selection does not match the value of your house and kitchen remodel, and you could say that the entire line of the Topaz product line does not.

The soffits have been discussed a lot, I think there are some assumptions that can be settled if you refer to Marcy's older thread <here>, the last 3-D drawings posted. I believe that is still the gist of the kitchen today, and the soffits feel appropriate for the design.

For me, the older thread has allowed a verdict on your proposed Kitchen lighting:

- The aisle fixtures are 24" away from the soffit, which is appropriate for your 24" high soffits (10' high cabinet tops, 12' high ceiling). That will ensure that hot spots are limited on the soffit face yet light is thrown to the counter and 24" deep cabinets/appliances, as long as you choose fixtures with more lumens as previously stated. The shadows from your body are an appropriate trade off.

- As I said earlier, the 12" deep upper cabinets do need a recessed fixture under the soffit, as the soffit will create a shadow from the fixtures mounted in the 12' ceiling. These fixtures need to be either 2" or 3" with lumens in the 500-700 range to not overpower the other ceiling fixtures.

- The spacing between the ceiling fixtures should be adjusted slightly, but the Family Room, Breakfast niche, and Living Room tray ceiling still needs more info to put the Kitchen in context.

- Because of the recessed lights in the aisles, any island pendants at the scale of the island/overall Kitchen would work, but the line of recessed fixtures in front of the island (over open dead space) can affect the lumens needed for the island (and thus opportunities for pendant selection). More context if that line of recessed over dead space is needed.

For the Family Room, you have not responded to feedback.

Thank you for all the advice. Very good things to think aboutThank you for all the advice. Very good things to think about.Thank you for all the advice. Very good things to think about.
Thank you for all the advice. Very good things to think about.

@dan1888

I see the points regarding the soffit. I also like not having a space to worry about above to keep clean. However, I am definitely more of a practical person and it would bother me if the lighting is not sufficient. We are definitely at a point where it can be easily torn out.

@JAN MOYER

The pendants could be returned I'm sure with a restocking fee I suppose. I would have to look into it. Could I add a couple down lights in the island pendant line as an alternative?

@3onthetree
I like the lights you suggest and the quality.
If I go with the M series commercial 4" downlight 3-6" off of the counter edge would this be in place of the lighting on my original plan? Something like this? Lights marked in yellow. With the ones in the soffit being 2 or 3" marked in blue?

I'm sorry, I must have missed it. What was the feedback requested for the family room. To draw in the furniture?

Lighting for a kitchen is designed in 3 layers. Task for work zones at 70-80 footcandles or 450 lumens minimum at the counter. Usually, wide spot or spot bulb focus. Ambient for room lighting at 40 footcandles using flood bulbs and decorative like pendants without any minimum output. All on dimmers. Led at 3500k white color temperature or an alternative of your preference.

The yellow marked plan is incorrect. I did not make a suggestion for light manufacturer. Your electrician has chosen Topaz, dan1888 has chosen DMF. DMF are much more aligned with your house value and offers a few options for finishing and light style, and the cost will be approx $180 per fixture, instead of the $16 per Topaz wafer fixture. There are a bunch of other manufacturers besides DMF who offer more appropriate lighting too.

Holding lights 3"-6" in from the counter edge is incorrect (sorry dan1888, still incorrect), and cannot even be accomplished if you wanted to with your project, because you have a soffit that extends beyond the edge of counter. As I stated recently, your original layout with fixtures 24" from the soffit are well placed in your kitchen for a generic fixture of unknown manufacturer.

If you chose to go with DMF M Series Residential 4" Remodel lights, here's what would happen: you would have to specify a 1250lumen with a 15d spot in order to achieve enough counter task lighting from 12' above. However, a 15d spot would need to be placed closer to each other to try and blend the 3' diameter bright spot on the floor from each fixture (spots have a narrower and crisper "beam" of light, as opposed to "flooding" the light for a softer diffused transition between fixtures). So you would need more fixtures with tighter spacing, and that doesn't seem warranted here.

You may find another manufacturer that has 4" lights whose throw will be more appropriate for your 12' ceiling. Certainly, going to 6" will accomplish it quicker. I am not sure who can help you specify a fixture, but your project is more complicated than what a typical residential electrician/G.C. can understand. Your electrician might be able to have their supplier contact a field rep from a manufacturer to guide fixture selection. If you do not have a brand in mind, sticking to one of the big manufacturers, like Cooper, has many products to choose from and offers guidance from a design department.

The blue marked locations are good, however, I would change the doorway soffit fixture (next to refrigerator) to the same blue fixture style.

The design of my island is similar to yours. I installed two single pendant lamps with transparent lampshades here. You can refer to this type of lamp:

I purchased it at https://www.josenart.com/product/kitchen-lighting-ideas-glass-lamps-brass-fixtures-for-modern-kitchen-island-lighting/

@dan1888

@cd30443

I'm sorry for mixing up the comments. After re-reading the comments I have a better understanding now. I was definitely a bit confused. I have spokened to the GC and given the DMF as a sample of the quality that I would like. He states that since it is a remodel, it will not be easy to place the cans in the ceiling due to the existing framing. This is part of the reason he chose the Topaz (and cost too, I assume).

After going back and forth on it, we agreed on the "blue" soffit lights. And it makes sense to match the doorway light to the other soffit lights. We are probably going to keep the original plan for the rest of the kitchen lighting and space out a bit more.

Part of the issue with lighting the family room is that we are planning this without much of a plan for the furniture. Which I now see the problem in that. The tv will go on the far wall with a sectional of some sort in front of that (backing to the kitchen).

In visually inspecting the marked up family room for downlights it feels like a lot of lights in-person. I am thinking to reduce the number of lights from 12 to 9, taking the row farthest from the kitchen away completely (this is where our tv goes on the wall) and leaving the one closest to the kitchen where it is, then spreading the other lights evenly from there. I would like to keep the size of the light consistent between the Family room and kitchen (except for the soffits). Are there any obvious issues with that plan?

Thanks again for your time. I truly value your feedback as I am learning a lot throughout this process.

Someone had asked for the details of the Topaz lights. I was able to take more photos of the box.

4" Round Remodel - DMF Lighting

I think it is time to talk to an electrician or lighting designer who has a broader range of knowledge and experience in higher quality lighting design. Your GC is the roadblock type.