Not winters .. removed

Are we at the point I should consider sacrificing the powder off garage and kitchen for extra MUD? 🤔🫠I don’t think so ,., but hmm. 😂

Meg, I am so sorry that I have not had time to respond back to you. And Jan. I am hoping to have more time tomorrow evening or Monday am. 💗

"She asks, should I 'Lose" the powder room ? (Answer NO!!!)

She says......

"I totally agree Jan, that no matter which way we cut it, I’m coming up short on mudroom. As much as I don’t want to lose the window..."

If you can come to grips with the house size you have, if you don't oversize one thing, you don't have to UNDER SIZE anything.

Two ways to get back into reality....

Simple framing alteration, to logic within your major constraint ........and size overall. No plumbing issue

With two mud areas, I probably WOULD JUST put a shade on window, go right over it. Turn on a light! You aren't spending the day in there. It's fast space. Storage as below!!

together.... in a side by side!

Or???

More $$$$$ to nirvana??? Plumbing moves.

With the "go with" Nirvana mud below.........

Together/side by side:

How'd we get here? The I have and the I want....

.....From a fixed garage entry, to a ridge, to we want a honkin 48" range meant for a 200k kitchen in a bigger house.

"I wanted a "pretty pantry" and and ugly , ordinary pantry. ..........."

But REALITY in this house, is a dose of acceptance, of "this is my space, from the get go, and how do I allocate that space in a way that meets all my needs?"

You decide........?

Now.......what happens in kitchen? Since that is where this insane thread began...

Remember this below? See the tall cabinet LEFT of the flanking cabs??

Still a "pretty view" into pantry. You're walking around the fridge on entry and NO it will not kill you it's about five steps extra?!

In this full circle ?

THE LOGICAL spaces were never really about the range wall, upper cabs or not, the pretty pantry, the ugly pantry. That was a focus on Pretty, Pantry/doors vault/ with a bit of disregard to the rest.

I think your decision is right above - (either)

It can still be a very beautiful kitchen : ) with plenty of pantry. Good mud and the necessary powder room/privacy included.

You probably CAN widen the mud a bit. ( dotted line)

No matter what, get to a final framing you can LIVE with!

It's still a very BIG PANTRY .You don't need two ways in/out. You just need to store what makes sense in there, for you.

When your kids are in kindergarten and fourth grade, not many years from now?

That mud/powder exit to garage is their LAST stop before the school bus, and the first on return. It is your in/out all day long. Get a dog....?

I think we are missing some crucial info in order to best help you. I believe you said this is a gut remodel of a Ranch style home.

Can you please post the ENTIRE floor plan? Include all Bedrooms, Bathrooms, Laundry, Garage, Driveway, Front yard, Backyard…. Everything!

Please show the dimensions of the INTERIOR walls, windows, doors, etc…

What is going on at the top left of the garage. Does that actually say bath 3?

What was the can of worms you mentioned that makes the garage entry have to stay put?

Given we asked for the WHOLE about about nine days ago?: ) out of the nearly two weeks?

I doubt they're blowing up all the framing. No clue WHAT the garage door issue was......but it was apparently explored in a thousand ways.

There's a lot of who knows.....maybe the architect was just a draftsman....

Maybe the darn wish list exceeded size of house, and budget.....( looks like a garage slop sink was behind the powder room, and possible drove locale?

I don't think either of these is "tragedy of kitchen. and both probably more correctly proportioned for total house size.

Those who pass?

It will be very good when the "only house I can have is an open RANCH" concept sails. Raise the ROOF! Have two floors!

Mid Century or "farm/ranch"......you need a lot of roof line , lot width, to get a really great one story home.

The real deal mid century had little/ none of the kitchen, islands, and baths of today.

It will also be good when we STOP with "plop!! I am in your living room". I thought we left it behind in 1966 and wish we had. : ( !

Give yourself a FOYER. A slower reveal of the "beyond"....

.

Agree wholeheatedly about the plop!!!

First change for me would have been moving the front door down to the left, (extending front porch) and then make the closet opening toward the entry instead of mud.

Jan, I finally got a chance to read through the whole thread thoroughly this morning. I loved seeing how your designs evolved over time. Each redo got better and better!

Now can we fix the PLOP? 😂

AND as soon as you enter the front door you see the kitchen sinks. I really don’t like that!

It's a better solution...........Read it again, you know who you are: ) ? Nobody gets everything they want.

Gorgeous, but lacking real function, is like a really handsome but really bad boyfriend.

Ps , Yes it can still be gorgeous.... and n.i.c..e to live with.

Jan and rebunky! You’ve given me a 7 course meal to digest! Eating and chewing on it and digesting! I’ll gather my thoughts and report back! I stood in my space today and walked thru and envisioned different set ups based on your suggestions. Thinking. Pondering. I’m confident it’s going to be a very pretty and functional space when I make all the edits!! So. Much. Space.

And I’m happy to post the full plans if you really wanna have a hey day! I don’t mind at all!

Not sure how well it’s going to show for you … bc a screen shot but here it is in all its glory! We didn’t do any exterior additions, only moved the fireplace and added a laundry room in what was the former entry. Filled in a sunken living room. Didn’t change bedrooms or hallways at all, except for reconfiguring a master bath and closet.

And garage bath was already there. So didn’t add that. Door opens to back deck.

Here it is!

Meg,

I absolutely understand that you might not be able to make any major structural changes at this point to the existing framing/plumbing. Duh!

When I asked for you to post your whole house floor plan, please know that it is not my intention to suggest a complete do over of your architect’s plan.

It is just that I have seen many times on this forum over the years, once we see the whole layout, suddenly a simple and cost effective solution appears!

I also have learned from my GC husband over the years that what people think is going to be a majorly expensive “change orders” is actually not that big of a deal.

For example, you might think it will cost way too much to move your island prep sink or even the island location itself because the plumbing for the prep sink is already set in to the concrete floor. I have no clue what moving the prep sink to the other end of the island (closer to the fridge) would cost, but that is definitely one thing I would want to change.

I hope you will come back and post your whole floor plan (with dimensions at least in kitchen areas). It might help or it might not. You asked about whether you should lose the powder room. I thought maybe if we could see the whole house plan, the answer to that would become clear, that’s all.

Jan, I like ”Nirvana” best so far!😁

I would like it if the powder room sink and toilet location were placed so that if the kid forgets to close the door, the loo won’t be seen from the living room area, but only the garage entry.

Just imagine… You had the whole entire house footprint and ALL the accurate measurement info…

What would that Nirvana layout be!!!

Pretty much as I imagined

Bath at garage...

Is there a POOL? I'll stop there.....it probably could have been your laundry with an exit from pantry and a door vs window and a deck alteration. It's further from bedrooms......but if you are an I do laundry while baking and........?

One thing?

I'd give myself another foot width in that laundry or plan to be barely able to bend over, and I would get Speed Queen top load in any case.

The kids bath? You have room for a linen closet in that laundry! It's about 12' long! Maybe reduce that linen in their bath, to open shelving behind the door, put linen in the laundry

You're underestimating the kids junk and clothes............Give back some of that primary closet: ) !!

How does anyone reach around the potty in their bath to get to the plumbing????

What can I say? We've exhausted all the possible kitchen/entry changes.

Pick what works for you with a head screwed on to what you really need .

What I think, what rebunky thinks ....it's your house, and your budget.

With minimal adjustment? After going around a bend a thousand times? Knowing you WILL feel the money squeeze soon?

I'm here below.

With a very hard look at 48" range, and even my cooling at 48". I've been helping families for as long as you've been alive, or close to it.

I loooove this too.......more bucks.

Had either been in place and you just found it all with this kitchen? You'd be ripping up ..........nothing.

Get past this ugly ass wall mock up below, your life in the house is a lot MORE than just this wall....or miniscule inches of unnecessary doorways!

but it can be........your version of this below. View into the "pretty cabinet in the pantry, " and take the extra four steps to the fridge.

Keep us posted........: )

Wow, this is such an enlightening thread! You don't seem bothered by the path distance to bring groceries and stuff inside. But if you want to simplify the task, just have one of these collapsable carts on standby in the garage. I'm in the camp where I prefer to unload groceries in one trip and it sure works for me!!

Sorry Meg, somehow I did not see your last few posts and house layout before my last post. I only saw Jan’s from like 11 hours ago.

Ugh! I do have a bad habit of starting to writing a post, stopping to do stuff like cook dinner, then coming back hours later and forget to ”refresh” the page! 🤪

Thanks for responding! I am sure Jan is correct on the analysis. But, it is after midnight my time, so better shut off the brain!

lol Night Night!!

Grocery path..........it isn't a country mile kids!!!! There are longer paths through a fantastic mud and powder room area, ALL OVER BRAND NEW HIGH END suburbia.

Geeeeeeeeewheeeeeze

Jan you can be rest assured I absolutely did purchase a SQ top loader for laundry. And yes, we do want a pool… and that’s exactly what that garage bath will be used for. And pup baths! We did toy with laundry, in one iteration, back there by pantry but decided against it. Prefer close to bedrooms and more middle of house. The now desk area next to garage bath used to be the laundry off garage but def wanted that inside! And yes, I’ll definitely report back!

Another attempt. 😉

What I like:

1) Cannot see in to the kitchen from the front entry (extended fridge wall). I think we can all agree it is a well established design no-no and should be avoided if at all possible.

2) Added large entry/guest coat closet with space in front to take off shoes, hang coats, set purses down, that is off to the side.

3) Powder room is private. Guests do not have to traipse through the mudroom clutter to access. Window stays.

4) Convenient access to pantry and kitchen with groceries. This is a must have for most people. Only you can decide if that’s important to you. Jan’s plan with the connected “L” corner between the range is great, but if i had to choose, I would rather have easy access from garage.

@jackowskib, Great idea with that collapsable grocery tote!

5) Garage entry also seems to have a little more breathing room. Imagine kids/pets all piling in at the same time to kick off shoes. Space to attach leashes on dogs, etc…

6) Command center/Calendar counter at the kitchen entry.

5) Snack/Drink zone counter conveniently located near fridge with under-counter MW drawer.

7) You still have lovely large pantry with pocket door to shut as you see fit.

ETA: I like all of Jan’s changes to the bedroom closets, laundry, etc… Even with a top loader, that laundry is pretty narrow.

Is anyone else noticing a pattern here in the past few days? There have been NUMEROUS posts by different wallpaper "pros" all offering similar advice, clearly in an AI format, on lots of different topics, not having anything to do with wallpaper????

Ex. Colin Foster Wallpaper Works, LA Wallcovering, Vinyl Wallpaper Sexton, Wallpaper Installation by Alex, Wallpapering by Alex. Very curious.

And all sound like AI. I'm flagging, see what the admins think.

It does sound like AI … not “human” language

Yes, everyone should flag.

^^

Wrong thread guys? : )

( you're not on that dumb one about the paste?!)

No, not wrong one. He/It probably deleted the post. But there's a lot on the one about the paste too.

How does that annoying " I am not a robot" thing work?! Maybe we need that!

There's a very common "sugar sweet" aspect to alllllll of these AI posts. Despite the bland, barely a reference to the real issue, they are all in the "vague, sweet, category".

Poor Meg is wondering about our veer, as all she needs is her framing and kitchen : ) in this lifetime....

I'm sure a robot can check the "I am not a robot" box

Poor Meg is wondering about our veer, as all she needs is her framing and kitchen : ) in this lifetime....

Wow! What is up with the AI wallpaper robots invading???

Yes, poor Meg. I am sure this is the least of her worries.

Good to flag though!

Hey yall! Think I found a slab for our backsplash. Now to decide style … any of you lovers of design want to weigh in on favorites? Would like to maximize this 126x77 slab (budget) and trying to determine where else to use! I think it’d be pretty on master vanity or in “pretty pantry” or even along kitchen sink wall counters. But I’m guessing there’s some rules to using your pretty focal point backsplash elsewhere? Thoughts / input?

There have been a lot of sad stories about using quartz behind a range. Quartz is heavily made of resins and polymers (aka plastic) and can melt and burn near heat.

You'd be better served using marble or tile behind the range.

It’s quartzite… not super versed on stones but thought that withstands high heat?

" How does that annoying " I am not a robot" thing work?! Maybe we need that! "

My understanding is that it has to do with mouse movements. A robot would move in a perfectly straight line to the box, or perhaps a straight vertical movement, then a straight horizontal movement. A human-controlled mouse follows a less direct path.

Hey Meg--yes quartzite is a natural stone and would be fine as a backsplash behind a range.

AnnKH, that is such an interesting comment--I never would have guessed!

Thanks Diana! And yes, interesting on mouse movements! Who would’ve thought?

You learn something new every day right?

Meg, absolutely no worries…

But, I was just curious why you never responded to my last layout attempt from 9 days ago.

What IS the final framing?!

What are ALL the materials- cabinet finish, door/ drawer style , flooring??

Was the too narrow laundry issue and that entry to bedroom adjusted?

and more……?

Rebunky… thanks for referencing your earlier comment. Missed altogether amongst the robot comment stuff. I do Houzz app on my phone and so think I just didn’t scroll up!

As to your comments -actually the fridge wall is situated such that you can’t see the kitchen sink at all, as is. I really like your idea on entry door / front closet. Unfortunately I can’t justify moving the powder plumbing at this stage in game. But I do like having a door to close off all that “back of the house stuff” .. I agree it’s nice to have behind a door. And I do love how that’s situated!! Great concept”. I loved your idea on an earlier post to make bench under window in mudroom and make that a pretty light filled space (albeit kind of small still). I feel like that will really open it up. I’ve landed at that and using cabinetry solutions instead of a framed in closet (not quite lockers but more so that, but with doors that close). And yes.. my laundry is far more narrow than I would like, but kind of pickle in the middle because fireplace wall and small bedroom and master bath the way it squished on that side of the house.

And Jen, you join attention to that small 4 foot closet in the front bedroom and saying that I should grab some space from the master walk-in closet did cause me to come up with a solution for a built-in instead of a closet with doors which I think will maximize that space and save me money on the bypass closet doors! So thank you for that!

*jan

I missed that bedroom door entry suggestion too 😵‍💫 thanks! They started dry walling yesterday so framing changes are done!

I changed powder room door entry and eliminated framing in closet but didn’t have time or money to reconfigure whole kitchen corner and move back mudroom wall to create a reach in or walk in mudroom closet.

Lots of lessons here.

Post at the BEGINNING!!!! ASK EARLY

Design is best done, ANY design of anything on a device larger than the darn phone.

Get an Ipad, use a laptop!

Days went by here, drawings were ignored, misunderstood…repeated!

Opportunities got lost in the passage of days.

In the end? Alllll

is pretty much where the thread began and at least not a view from great room to potty.!

Passing by this thread?

Its never too eraly to ask. Its before framing!

Its before footers and plumbing rough in and its….before you are painted into a corner:)

Actually days weren’t lost. Drawings weren’t at all ignored. I very much value and thought I acknowledged several times how grateful I was for all the input and drawings and energy behind things.

Framing was already all done when I asked about doors, the original post. But of course … if you’re passing by this thread and like me and want a lot of input or opinions that you can sort thru and glean from and live with … yes, post before you start framing and plumbing! Like .. when just going back and forth with your architect!

I’m really happy with my layout overall and despite what could be perceived as dire mistakes as articulated on this thread, one could also perceive them as trade offs or one/tow missed opportunities. I love the passion tho!

Any input on the various backsplashes?

Realistically / practically Jan, I can’t return or resell my fridge .. so the drawing you provided in closing off that pocket door .. doesn’t work with cabinetry. I absolutely considered that design. But ultimately .. didn’t feel that was a huge disaster by not being able to add in that addl mudroom space for a closet with things I don’t use much - going to utilize a garage wall for that… would it be nice to be inside.. probably, but just couldn’t make that corner cabinet situation make sense when I was there last week enough to pull the trigger.

Oh! And rest assured I do all things design on a laptop. I just check notifications on my phone when out and about with kids during day! 💪🏼👍🏼

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