I feel a local nursery would be a better source of local information than the internet.

Your local nursery, with your help is a valuable source of infomation.

Sounds more like a potting mix than for raised beds. If your beds are open to the soil below, I’d add plain old garden soil to that mix 50/50.

tj

I agree - for raised beds outside, I would look for garden soil, not potting soil.

I have used potting mix in large containers and pots outside, but not for whole beds. Kellogg makes a mix for outdoor containers as well.

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, when I went yesterday, there was only one person there , and there was a language barrier. I bought 3 bags and I'm not sure if i can return them. I'll just add garden soil and see.

If it’s already a very peaty mix— you would open a bag & see—I often mix some actual plain “ topsoil “ with that, for a raised bed open to ground, especially if I need a lot of cubic feet. Granted, “ topsoil” can be very different things, including more peat —Scott’s for example is often peat & bark. So I look for a brand that looks like kind of sandy- clay dirt. Usually there are leaking bags that help tell what I may look like. And maybe add some Black Kow composted manure. We also have nurseries that sell “Super soil” and bagged compost.

Anyway, I aim to make it more like a lightened- up , compost- enriched dirt than a container soil, because for me that holds moisture a bit better during our hot dry summers, but still drains well because of being raised, and because I add compost & leaf mold to it yearly.

Is it the nursery own mix? Or a brand you could share with us? The ingredient list is good, but those terms could mean some different things. Does the bag have wording on it like it's complete, has nutrents, ect. Sometimes forest compost is good stuff, sometimes it's kind of junk.

I tend to be a dirt feeder, so depending on the look of the mix I might add in some composted manure, leaf mold, amendments. Water in a lot with nute water. If it's looking like it's got no dirt, I might add some in after the feeding. I tend not to do that very often, but I've got some rich pond dirt out back I can use if I feel the need.

FWIW, I've used potting mix like a mulch for outdoor containers and even for plants in the ground, rather than mixing it into the soil.

The brand is called Agricultural Soil Products. I didn't see any words like complete or nutrient-rich.

. ETA: I took a photo, but it's not showing when I posted.

If you plan to stay in the gardening game long you need to find a way to embrace native soil in your yard. Here's your first topsoil lesson. "Topsoil" can mean anything from dirt off a construction site to ground up pecan hulls and everything between.

Oh what the heck, may as well give you lesson #2 while we are at it. The old mossbacks that have gardened for decades make,mix and use material gathered from their yard and occasionally surounding neighborhood. Some haven't bought anything in decades. Visit Soil,Compost and Mulch here at Houzz to hear what they say about it.

like a few said, it's not for ground use but what you use doesn't matter if it can hold oxygen water and nutrients.

Class is in session: The perfect ground soil for growing is a 40% blended sand particle sizes, 40% silt and 20% clay. it's rarely found in these ratios but in all kinds of combinations in between with some soils missing one of two of these minerals. The perfect combination provides the best aeration, water holding capacity and nutrient charge, but it's not good for growing anything unless it's charged. What do I mean charged?

There are many buts, ifs, and exceptions so I'll keep it simple. Sand has a low to no charge, silt has a moderate charge. and most clay types have a stronger charge. Nutrients (fertilizer) also has a charge, and are attracted and stick to the silt and clay particles just like a magnet. Along comes the plant root and wants those nutrients but must exchange something in return of equal charge, so the root releases hydrogen to the soil for the nutrients. If nutrients aren't added to charge the soil the plant has nothing to trade for and dies, so adding fertilizer charges the soil. Simple right? Nutrients will always need to be added.

Organic matter will have nutrients and will also attract and hold nutrients, but it will eventually decompose. Think of Organic matter as a biodegradable storage bag for nutrients that will eventually disappear, and silt and clay minerals as a nice glass storage jars for nutrients that will always be available to use year after year......

unfortunately not all soils are perfect as described above. In lieu of a lack of clay and/or silt adding Organic matter can be used to replace them as storage containers but must be mixed into the top 6" to 8" of the the dirt and repeated the annually. The perfect soil describe above will hold about 25% of it's volume in oxygen, 25% in water, and the rest of the volume having a charge to attract and hold nutrients. At best we can only try to emulate the properties of perfect soil to the best of your ability.

What you dump on the soil to charge it up with nutrients is another class session for another day, and will strike up countless debates of what is best, what is healthy and what is just darn right stupid people will use thinking it's better, and I'll leave it at that.

You won't get much debate on my part. I don't own a single piece of the 10M worth lab equipment required to do soil analysis each time I pot a plant up. In other words it's above my pay grade plus I've made it this far without obsessing over detailed perfection.

I'm guilty of telling folks not to over do-it while choosing ratios for mixing compost.

That's a good point that should be reinforced. Organic material will disappear. Mineral soil (and sand) won't. So if you use an organic-heavy mix, it'll be OK for growing things, but you're going to have to add to it every year. By the same token, organic material contributes to soil friability. That is, without it, the soil pack will be dense and not very root and shovel friendly. To the extent that compost really isn't a substantive nutrient, that's why we still add the stuff religiously every year.

BTW, ASP is a pretty responsible company. You can read about their products in some detail here https://agriculturalsoilproducts.com/products/.

Thank you all for your insights.

FWIW, the mineral content in a soil can be easily augmented by using rock/granite dust, azomite, and/or greensand. Topsoil, while cheap and bulky, is not actually needed and its quality and composition can vary considerably based on its source.

Rodney

There's something called soil test available for the price of bag of Acme Garden Elixer.

Why not invest in one instead of winging it?

Looking at the ingredients of the ASP products on their website, most of them contain pumice as a rocky filler. Pumice is rich in all mineral nutrients. One or two of their products just have perlite, though. Perlite is entirely silicate and is largely free of other important mineral nutrients. Just look up what you have, and decide if you might want to add minerals. But again, organics do have mineral nutrients. I would never argue against getting a soil test, but I suspect you really don't need it for this mix.

I dunno klem. Soil testing bagged stuff is kind of... seems like it should be unnecessary. That is usually for whatever you are digging in your yard. Filling a raised bed should be easier than that.

Kind of over thinking here, to start arguments. Few bags are going to be "perfect", and don't be surprised if brands vary from bag to bag in quality. A lot of these products have too much uncomposted wood IMO but which will break down eventually. Wood is good for drainage initially for the first year. Good soil takes some time.

Buy a few bags. The garden soil, a bag of compost, maybe Black Kow composted manure. Get some fertilizer like Espoma Garden Tone. Mix all together. Add more stuff next year. Do a test next year if you like. You can add organic material and minerals any year, you are never "finished".

ASP tells you exactly what's in these bags. Quality isn't an issue. You mean like higher quality ground red wood? Um. These folks market to professional farmers. The mix specifically aimed at organic gardeners has compost in it already. Presumably something more N rich than wood compost. The OP needs to look at the bag and see what the label says. Is this their ProSO product? Their website has good contact info. Ask 'em!

"too much uncomposted wood IMO"

I'll agree with you, and often some just throw in some nitrogen and call it good? I have about 30 yards of wood chips (free) in a pile breaking down and have turned it 3 times. It's now starting it's 4th year of decomposition with strings of Fungi growth running through the pile so only now will I start using it as mulch which will become swallowed up into soil.

"soil friability"

Well Dan, after reading your posts about dumping leaves in the garden I followed your advice and noticed a complete transformation in friabiltiy and like what I'm seeing. Less clumpy and lighter with an increase in a darker color so I'm shooting for black soil known as chemozem, the most fertile soil in the world, with exception to volcanic ash soil in Indonesia (java).

I have a neighbor convinced I'm not to bright and offered to pick up his leaves in the fall. his leaves are now sitting in another big pile next to the wood chips and will be used next year as leaf mold. I'd rather make my own organic matter from free stuff than pay for a plastic bag full of questionable forest product. (never have and never will.)

Well, that was LONG AGO I just buried whole leaves. I suppose it worked out eventually, but these days I always mow the leaves to grind them up, and then leave in a pile for a few months, sometimes with added 20-0-0 to kick up the bio-activity. The pile temp never gets much above 110F, but I'm not trying to kill or sterilize anything. But the leaves get thoroughly composted, and make for a welcome soil addition. I suspect piled up whole leaves would compost as well, but would take a LOT longer. Yes, years might do the trick. My soil is highly friable. I agree that I'd never trust a plastic bag to give me what I want. I don't go there.

So what advice do you guys have? Dan has defended the quality of bagged so called "soil" as being trustworthy and then later said he would never trust a plastic bag of soil. Dan has repeatedly said that organic compost material basically dissolves to nothing, and you need to add artificial fertilizers and minerals, which would make gardening impossible until the last century. Then he recommends adding leaves then misrepresents that and admits to composting. How about some ideas for new and city gardeners?

I said that if you WANTED to used bagged soil, this stuff looks respectable. I don't want to use it, but we don't need to pretend that I'm criticizing it. I NEVER said you needed to add minerals and artificial fertilizers. I said one might be concerned about lack of minerals, but then said that organic materials probably contain enough. I said that you COULD add fertilizer. I NEVER recommended adding unshredded leaves to a garden. I did it once, and never did it again. I said it probably won't hurt, but shredding first is better.

Read harder, please. We're getting way off topic here, and making stuff up as we go along.

Do you have any practical advice on what you WOULD do, since you have such expertise? If you had a relative who wanted you to fill up their raised bed garden, what would you do? All you do is repeat your obsessive non mainstream soil content theories, acting like you are a scientist. Why not help us stupid people out who don't understand your advanced scientific theories?

I do think it is funny you actually admitted to composting after mocking compost for years.

" Here are the ingredients: composted forest products, redwood, ground fir bark, peat moss, sand perlite. "

rich69b, to me if you take away the perlite and maybe even the peat moss the rest I would add to my compost pile to eventually become compost. Those items on the list are not really "soil", not even the perlite nor the peat moss. Bags be danged ;-)

Robert, the question was do I need to add fertilizer to this Potting soil I found? Not what else should I buy like compost, black Kow manure, do tests, blah blah blah. Dan did a good job addressing the question, and I do believe Dan has mentioned adding fall leaves into his soils numerous times in the past. If he changed how he does things It's his choice and doesn't need to clear it through you.

I often change how I grow vegetables and it shouldn't be a big deal to anyone how another evolves or even regresses, and follows an alternate ideas trying to improve quality with less work. . I've stated many times I don't do organics, to much work. From working over a 1/4 acre to now down to 4600 sq. ft. I've been playing with organic matter and compost to improve quality. It's not hard to harvest leaves and throw them in the garden, and it's not compost but only organic matter. Throwing a little nitrogen in a pile of leaves for a few months also isn't compost, It's just aged organic matter and has a long way to go before it can be called compost,

A person doesn't need to be a scientist to know compost or organic matter becomes nothing to a plant once nutrients are used up. Plants can't sit around waiting for inorganic minerals from the compost to finally be released by microbes so they suffer, look crappy and produce inferior produce. Adding synthetic fertilizer is a sensible idea to keep you plants healthy mid to late season. I do it all season.

Jumping back 100 years, (as you did) quantity and quality suffer dearly except on virgin soil. They worked a plot to death killing the soil and would move on to the next cleared north 40 for several years before rotating. The average corn harvest in 1900 was a mere 25 bushels per acre, enough to feed 2 1/2 pigs to slaughter. Today a conventional farmer gets 18 pigs worth of corn from an acre or 180 bushels. Organic corn fields today only yield and average of 120 to 140 bushels per acre but labor costs are 3 times higher. 100 years ago is was possible to survive off organically grown produce but just barely. I really don't know how they did it.

I guess we're lucky (except during leaf pick-up-time in the fall), but we pile tons of leaves on our compost pile, where we dump all our unused veggie stuff and I was able to fill a bunch of large food-grade stock tanks for raised beds. I do still need to fertilize too though. I feel very lucky to be able to use our old leaves, food stufff, etc., Sure seemed better than buying a ton of ready-made stuff (not knowing exactly what was in it)......plus, I'm fussy about bags that aren't recyclable. I wonder if you could somehow talk to a soil company who has taken soil from known-safe places, and have them deliver that to your place?

This has been pointed out previously but a raised bed is not a contaier.......it is just an elevated planting area. Potting soil - intended for an enclosed container (one with sides and a bottom) - is not a good choice for a raised bed. As also previously mentioned, you want a well-drained mineral based garden soil for this purpose, just the same as if you were planting directly into the ground.. Unfortunately, many/most gardeners do not have excess garden soil sitting around with which to fill these elevated beds so they bring in imported soil, typically bagged. Depending on the quantity needed, buying in bulk will always be less expensive than buying bagged.

If this were my project, I'd bring in ordinary topsoil to fill the beds, augmented with a modest portion - not more than 20% - of compost.