I like plums and have (almost had) 3 trees, 2 of them will be dead by next Spring so I need to chop them down this winter. Both of these trees are 20 years old, and the borer damage plus old age finally got to them. The major problem here is the plum curculio pest which is hard to eradicate, plus squirrels which steal most of all of them. Pitted fruits like plums need multiple sprays each season to obtain decent fruit and I don't spray.

I live in a fruit basket. So most of the apple orchards around here grow a lot of more commonly found supermarket apples and also a goodly handful or few of "specialty" apples. And some cider orchards. So often home trees are something different from all of that because all of that is so plentiful.

Some supermarket apples are heirlooms, some are not. Some storage apples are great for fresh eating, some are not. Many apple varieties aren't good storage apples, and are better for various processing. A lot of heirloom varieties aren't reliable enough or consistant enough in fruiting sizing to be considered for commercial sales. A handful are just too big for market, and a bunch are too small.

Apples are just super common in the U.S.. Johnny Appleseed did his job well. Apple pie is a thing. They are easier tree fruit than some others can be. I think fruit trees in general aren't popular as a yard tree because they require maintenance that non-fruiting trees don't.

I had to read this post several times to confirm to myself it was not written tongue in cheek. After coming to that conclusion, I can only assume that you a) have not lived in the PNW very long; b) are not familiar with growing fruit trees yourself; and c) don't visit many PNW nurseries. Almost nothing you state matches reality!

• Speaking only wrt the PNW and with 30+ years in the local nursery industry, I can confirm that plums are quite popular here and many home gardeners purchase and plant them. Not all varieties are well suited to this climate but most European plums thrive here as well as few select Asian plums. Grew up with several different plums in my home garden in north Seattle.
• Ditto with apples. Local nurseries offer a generally wide variety of apples, including many you will never find in stores - Akane, Liberty, Melrose, Jonagold, Gravenstein. You can also find several commercial varieties for home planting like Honeycrisp and Gala but most commercial/store varieties (like Delicious, Golden Delicious or Granny Smith) do better with longer, hotter summers than we get and are not recommended for this area. It is also a matter of opinion but many find grocery store/commercial apples very tasty.
• Cherry trees also grow perfectly well in western Washington and again, local nurseries grow a range of both sweet and tart cherries. Unless Olympia's climate is wildly different from the rest of the Puget Sound area (and I believe it is not), then "very hot summers with blazing sun" is a massive overstatement! Not that this would be a detriment were it a fact. Eastern WA has a much hotter and drier climate than western WA and yet cherries are a primary crop there, producing as much as a third of the commercial US crop.
• Apricots and peaches typically require hotter summers than we can manage so are less common and tend to focus on a few short season cultivars bred specially for this climate. Late spring frosts are not something this area experiences compared to the rest of the country.

Can you explain how you arrived at these rather bizarre conclusions?

Olympia does get somewhat hotter in the summer than Seattle, maybe by about 2 or two and a half degrees. I'm looking at some statistics which say the average high temperature in Olympia in July is 7 degrees hotter than in Seattle. (This is partly to do with Seattle being a little farther north, but more to do with Seattle being more surrounded by the water of the Puget Sound, whereas Olympia is more landlocked, and some other effects due to the Olympic mountains influence on the passage of air from the west)

Cherry trees do grow well in Eastern Washington, despite the even more intense sun, but it depends what we mean by "well". There's a difference between a homeowner growing a tree, and trees that are well cared for in an orchard by knowledgeable people giving the trees the special type of attention they require, mainly consistent summer watering, and the issue of deer browsing (since I suspect cherry trees cannot recover as easily if their leaves get stripped). The main reason cherry trees are grown in Eastern Washington is the early and late season rains in the West can sometimes cause disease and fruit cracking issues. That does not mean small cherry trees will not struggle in the intense summer sun. This is in comparison to apples.

You live in the Seattle area, so you may have more apple variety selection in the nurseries there, due to the higher population density (and more money, to a smaller extent). Even if people have less room to plant fruit trees.

In the very rare instances when I do see a plum tree in someone's yard here, it almost always seems to be either an Asian plum, or Italian prune plum.

I do notice for some reason Olympia, as well as the other smaller cities, seem to have much less plant diversity in their yards than the Seattle area or the wealthier older neighborhoods of Tacoma.

If we look at where plum trees originally came from, or grow best, it is in the Caucasus region and the Balkans (as well as other parts of southeastern Europe). How do these climates compare to the U.S.? Winters are not too cold (zone 7), summers get some cloud cover and rain, but is not too hot and humid (promoting disease), nor is it too hot and dry. There's probably an area running down the middle of the U.S. (maybe eastern Kansas) that has the optimal humidity level for plum, but if you go north in this belt the winter temperatures would start getting pretty cold, and if you go south the summers can get very hot with intense sun. The climate in the middle of the U.S. simply is not as "mild" as areas in southeastern Europe and the Caucasus.

" the average high temperature in Olympia in July is 7 degrees hotter than in Seattle. "

According to statistics, that computes to 79F for Olympia compared to 72F for the greater Seattle area (July and August). This can hardly be described as "very hot" under even the broadest of definitions!

In general, plums do not require much humidity (can be a detriment as it fosters diseases) and can and do grow well in much of the midwest. American and European plums do best.....Asian plums tend to be less cold hardy and prefer milder winter climates.

I am still not convinced that your observations carry much validity.

79 is only "the average high". There were eight days in July above 88 this year.

And there were no big heat waves this year (2025), which is a little bit unusual.

In 2021, in Olympia, between June 26 and June 28, the daily highs reached 100, 102, and 106 F, due to a heat dome effect.

I have a rare rhododendron plant that still hasn't fully recovered from that event, and still shows some scorched leaves. (This was despite me keeping it well watered and spraying water on the leaves in the middle of the day)

The "daily average high" isn't really the best indicator of actual temperatures in the PNW. This is because the summer temperatures tend to be more "unstable" here than in other parts of the country. One day there could be clear skies with hot sun and the temperature going up to 89. Then two days later there could be grey overcast skies coming in from the coast with the daytime temperature never rising above 61.

But in "the daily average high", those two more extreme values will get averaged together.

The PNW is kind of a weird place. Most of the rest of the country has unstable winter temperatures, fairly stable summer temperatures. But the PNW has (for the most part) very stable winter temperatures but unstable greatly fluctuating temperatures during the "warm" half of the year. That's due both to the dry summers but also due to the fact that Olympia can get a marine influence or more of a hotter drier interior influence, depending on the direction of the winds.

Plums and cherries do not like high levels of humidity to be sure. But I think low levels of humidity can make the tree's leaves more vulnerable to baking in the hot sun, when there are totally clear skies. (I mean when the humidity starts dropping below maybe around 30%)

FWIW when I tried to grow a greengage plum, it had hideous foliar diseases right from the start, and I gave up on it.

OTOH have an 'Arkansas Black' apple, supposedly a no-spray variety, and most years it looks ok, but for some reason this year the very dry August caused it to defoliate. So far I've only gotten to try one apple from it...perfectly OK. Small, but tasty, and at least better than a bland 'Red Delicious'.

LOL!! What you describe - a heat dome - is very atypical for this area and lasting only 3 days is hardly a significant recurring event.

I am also not sure you can make generalizations about PNW weather from a relatively specific location. Much of western Washington has very stable and predictable weather. Temperature swings like you describe are extremely rare.

Just for clarification, the "temperature swings like I described" would be 61 degrees one day, and 89 two days later.

I'll elaborate on why that is an issue. At 61 degrees it is too cold-cool for a plum tree to grow much. Whereas at 89 degrees, with lower humidity (like we have in the summer in the Western U.S.), and totally clear skies with full sun, it can put water stress on the plant. In both these situations it is more difficult for the plant to carry out photosynthesis.

You are wrong if you think plants are going to grow equally well in two locations just because they have the same average temperatures. That average does not tell the whole story.

Maybe there aren't a lot of plum trees in Olympia simply because not a lot of people there like them enough to grow them in their yards. Washington in general is known for apples and cherries over plums. There are a few native plums in the Americas, but they aren't common, and not in the PNW.. European ones that come originally from Caucasus are grown a lot in California for prunes or processing, but aren't as popular for fresh eating because they tend to have thicker skins. Asian plums are more popular for fresh eating and a bit more common in the supermarkets, but aren't always easy to grow all over the place.

Asian plums are easier to grow in warmer climates that do not have as much winter chill, or in climates with humid summers, than European ones are. The fact that such a large percentage of the country's produce is grown in California has a large part to do with why asian plums overtook European plums. In fact what most Americans think a "plum" is is different now than it was 120 years ago. Tchaikovsky's "Sugar Plum Fairy" wasn't referring to the plums found in today's American supermarkets.

Yeah, I know what a sugar plum is, I make them sometimes. And I know Burbanks place in plum history. But since this is feeling like a fight being picked instead of a discussion, I'll leave the mystery of why the people of Olympia don't grow more plums in their yards to the folks that live there.

If you make "sugar plums", then you don't know what I am referring to.

A "sugar plum" once was one of the names used to refer to the most common category of "European plum". This is what people in Europe and America thought a plum was, before 1900. It's similar to a prune plum, dark black-purple exterior, but much bigger in size, sweeter, more delicate and delectable, and thinner skin. Similar in consistency to a prune plum but usually somewhat better in flavor and somewhat more moist and juicy.

picture here

a print from the early 1800s showing a plum

When most people in America talk about a "plum" now, they're not referring to the same fruit. Similar, but significantly different.

Why you'll never see these sold in stores has to do with shelf life. And in a modern society that is all about convenience and shelf life, virtually all of the society seems to have forgotten about these.

I don't like plums, so I don't grow them {shrug}.

I struggle with sweet cherries. I've lost a handful of them already but can't figure out why. The scrub trees grow and bear well, but not the cultivars I've planted; unfortunately, those are sour cherries, and I don't care for them. Western MI is renowned for cherry growing, but I'm more east-central, it's different here, we don't have the moderating effects of Lake Michigan.

I've got multiple varieties of apple trees, all but one is an heirloom. Same with pears. Can't find these varieties in the market, and if you do the fruit is going to cost $$$ (example = Forelle pears). I've done well with peaches, and my apricots are growing well but not much fruit yet. I don't have high expectations for the apricots since late frosts will nip the buds but they're pretty trees so hey if I get some fruit great but if not I just enjoy the trees.

Growing fruit well is a lot of work. Everything and anything will go after fruit -- disease, insects, animals, you name it and I guarantee it likes fruit. The world of today isn't the same as the world of 100 years ago, or heck even 20 or 30 years ago. Many people just don't have time or don't want to be bothered putting in the work required for home orcharding or lack space for trees.

I have to say that I love plums and greengage is my favourite. I wonder, porkchop, if you've had fresh ripe fruit straight off the tree rather than bought? The unripe chilled bullets in the store are a travesty. If not it might change your mind.

I also have to say I do no work to get crops like the one in my photo. The tree has never been pruned or sprayed. It might have benefited from a bit of shaping since it split this year from the weight of the fruit. But pruning plums increases the chances of disease.

Growing fruit well is a lot of work.

I have to disagree, at least about my blueberries. I do nothing to them. For whatever reason, my birds don't even bother them...and I have a lot of birds around here.

This is off-topic, but that reminds me of seeing a video on TikTok of a woman trying to feed her cockatoo a blueberry. The bird was pretty intelligent and could talk and was saying "No, no! Are you trying to kill me?"

I think there might be something evolutionary built into birds where they are more attracted to red color fruits than blue color fruits.

I can also find other similar ones, seeming to indicate pet cockatoos do not view blueberries as attractive to eat:

Royal Bird Lady (@nigel_and_friends) | TikTok

Oliver vs. Blueberry

Oliver vs Blueberry 2

Cockatoo's Reaction to Blueberries vs Clementines | TikTok

Cockatoo does NOT want the blueberry... [with subtitles]

It seems it was easier to get the bird to try a blackberry than the blueberry.

Oliver the Parrot's Funny Moment with a BlackBerry | TikTok

Ok, that's fair about the blueberriees. So I'll restate my original comment: Growing tree fruit well is a lot of work.

Blueberries are quite easy, as are raspberries. Raspberries border on being weeds around here -- delicious, but they're everywhere if you don't keep them in check. I don't find grapes difficult, either. It's the tree fruit that I find need a lot of work, whether it's keeping up with their water neediness, dealing with insects, disease, or usually all of the above -- it's never-ending.

My grandmother had a plum tree when I was a kid, this would have been back in the 70s. So yes I've had them off the tree. I didn't like plums then, and I don't like them now. I do love prunes, though. Go figure LOL!

"Blueberries are quite easy, as are raspberries."

That depends where you are. Sure, in Michigan raspberries would grow like weeds. But in the South, with hot summers, or in the U.S. West they are difficult to grow. Even in the "cool" "moist" Pacific Northwest they can be just a little challenging to grow well (to be able to gets lots of fruit) because of the dry summers. The leaves tend to bake in the sun.

This is whole separate discussion. But it goes to show that what may seem to hold true for a person in one region of the country may have absolutely no bearing in other regions.

"My grandmother had a plum tree when I was a kid, this would have been back in the 70s. _z5b_MI "

I'm sure plum trees would grow well in Michigan, especially western Michigan or further south in the state. It's a colder and cooler climate, and the humidity and warm season rainfall is a little lower than the east coast, so a little less disease.

(Using Lansing, MI, and Rochester, NY as random reference points, and looking at the months May to August, NY gets about 15% more rainfall)

For more northern and eastern parts of Michigan, as well as moving in to Wisconsin or Minnesota, the cold winters can start becoming a problematic issue for plums.

Apparently I am not the only person to notice the decreasing popularity of plums:

Why are Americans turning away from plums?

(Journal-News, Jim Rubenstein, July 19, 2022)

"Fresh plums are disappearing in the United States. Production is now less than half of the output in 2000. A generation ago, plums and peaches were comparable in the United States, but now peach production is three times higher than plum production.

Why are Americans turning away from plums? ... I suspect that one cause is dislike of supermarket plums, which are shipped unripe from California or abroad and never properly ripen."

Two things put me off of plums:

Being served stewed plums for grade school lunch in the 1950s.

In 1995 Gerber stopped making baby food Plums with Tapioca, this was my favorite.

In Portland, plum trees are common but many are poorly located as parking strip trees and the fallen fruit has to be side-stepped.

Raspberries:

Red Raspberry | Small Fruit Horticulture Research & Extension Program | Washington State University

^ 95% of US production. Just a ways north and slightly east of you.

The primary raspberry production area in WA state is in Whatcom county.

Not surprisingly, it is the northernmost county in the state and near the Puget Sound, and if I can point out there is a lot of very cool wind blowing in from the strait of Juan de Fuca.

(This source says Whatcom county produces 99% of the state's red raspberries)

So that doesn't really contradict what I said.

These raspberries still require summer irrigation, but that's not really an issue for commercial growing, and the area is in a part of the state where the summers do not get too hot.

"Two things put me off of plums:

Being served stewed plums for grade school lunch in the 1950s.

In 1995 Gerber stopped making baby food Plums with Tapioca, this was my favorite."

Please tell me you weren't still eating the Gerber in 1995 LOL!!

I love stewed plums. We also had them at school. With custard. Never tried the baby food version though.

Lol, don't knock it porkchop. Those baby foods can be shockingly pure and lacking weird ingredients compared to some other stuff. A lot of people care about pure food for babies.. which is funny cuz many parents switch over to heavily processed food as soon as baby can chew.

Uh....if The Logician were eating plums in grade school in the 1950s and Gerber baby food in the 1990's....well, that would be odd...

...and I would still be eating them at age 75. I claim to have bought the last jars in Portland in 1995 at a Kienow's. Bottom shelf, way in back, had to crawl. The jars had thick dust, I still have one of them.

^^ LOL! Ok, to each their own then :0p

I imagine it would not be too difficult to prepare your own "Plums with Tapioca", but it might be difficult to obtain the correct variety of plums. Most likely prune plum, I would guess.

Would be hard to duplicate the texture without heavy machinery. That, and finding those little glass jars--a key part of the experience.

For more of a baby food texture, you could use cassava grits, I would think.

Can easily be ordered online.

There are large berry farms in the Olympia area growing many varieties of berries and very successfully growing raspberries. Nearly every one of my friends who garden, including me, successfully grow raspberries in our yards. I don't know where you are getting or making up your information!

I have several friends living on larger pieces of land than city lots and they have a few different kinds of plum trees growing. They are older farm style places and the trees were planted many years ago. They all also have several varieties of apples growing.

With smaller city lots and suburban developments with smaller lots, if someone wants fruit trees, the space is limited. It seems logical that people would choose apple trees, a fruit of almost universal appeal and a longer harvest period and shelf life than plums. And much more versatility for use. I grew up in Seattle and we had 5 Italian prune trees on our lot. We ate our fill and my mother canned them and we ate them all winter. They were wonderful. We never made prune/plum pies or jam. They also didn't keep well fresh. We also had a huge raspberry patch and ate our fill for weeks and made jams for winter. We didn't have a freezer, but now I freeze my berries for winter eating.

Compare to apples which have so many more popular uses, can store for longer periods, etc. And in the last generation or so, fewer people are making food from scratch (like pies or cobblers or applesauce) or canning/preserving food, so few are even planting apple trees compared to years past. As far as varieties available, have you ever visited Raintree Nursery or Burnt Ridge (which also sells at the Oly Farmer's market)? An amazing selection of apples suitable for growing in western WA.

I bought a house just outside of Oly city limits and the original owner planted a Stella Cherry tree. The first crop we got after we moved in (the tree was several years old by .then) was fabulous...it is self pollinating and the cherries were delicious. The next year, the raccoons discovered the tree and I've never gotten one cherry since that time. I planted a red gravenstein and once I fenced for deer, I have enjoyed apples from that tree.

edited to add... The raspberries grown in Whatcom county (I lived there for quite a few years) are not grown near Puget Sound (no "the"), but farther inland in a climate influenced by and similar to the Fraser River Valley in BC. That is a huge raspberry growing area, too.

And Whatcom county not only grows the most raspberries in WA, it grows 85% of the commercial raspberries in the United States:

Berry Farm

Whatcom Berry Production

There are nearly 100,000 acres of productive farmland in Whatcom county equating to over $350 million in agriculture production. Ranking 6th out of 39 WA counties for total agriculture production. The county produces nearly 85% of the nations red raspberries which totals nearly 48 million pounds of red raspberries a year. Whatcom county also harvested approximately 35 million pounds of blueberries in 2014. There are approximately 280 acres of Whatcom strawberries and 2,500 acres of blueberries in Whatcom county alone.

"Plums and cherries do not like high levels of humidity to be sure. But I think low levels of humidity can make the tree's leaves more vulnerable to baking in the hot sun, when there are totally clear skies. (I mean when the humidity starts dropping below maybe around 30%)"

This almost made me laugh out loud! WA is the #1 producer of sweet cherries in the USA and I would guess that 100% of that crop is grown in Eastern WA where sunny days are unending and temps can soar in the summer and rainfall disappears.

Yakima Valley cherry growers scrambling to cope with unprecedented heat wave (June 26, 2021)

"Allan, with Allan Bros. in Naches, has crews trying to harvest as many cherries from vulnerable parts of his orchards before the current heat wave does too much damages. Right now, his crews, who start work at 5 a.m. and stop around 1:30 p.m. when the weather gets too hot...

Orchardists in Central Washington are trying to save as much of the cherry crop as possible, using canopies...

Temperatures are expected to exceed 100 degrees, with a predicted high near 115 degrees on Tuesday...

Sprinkler systems under cherry trees can, through evaporation, knock off as much as 10-15 degrees from the air temperature around the fruit.

Plus, it also requires a lot of water, which can be a scarce commodity.

Shade netting is also another strategy that orchardists use to combat heat and birds. The large polyethylene sheets, which from a distance can make an orchard look like a building, can knock down temperatures 10-15 degrees, as well as prevent sunburn on fruit."

yakimaherald.com