Hi bart bart -- I don't grow WS, so can't compare. I have a baby Young Lycidas started from a cutting last November. YL looks better now than some of my 1 gallon rose bushes purchased last spring. As it's in a small pot still (maybe 3 gal?) it is not covered in blooms. But right now I have 3 nice flowers on it -- and this is its 3rd blooming. Keep in mind it was only a stem as of November of 2024! The fragrance is just wonderful, and the color is rich. I was persuaded by Diane that I should look into YL. I'm very glad I did. I first did some cuttings the prior year, but the rose bush was not in bloom at the time, and I ended up with 2 healthy bushes of Mill on the Floss, not YL! But now I do know I have Young Lycidas. Not sure if he's going in the ground next month or in January...

I have both, Bart, but hesitate to say much because I don’t think I can make a fair comparison. My YL is a lovely rose and I feel it gets better as it matures, but it’s not a constant bloomer for me. My WS2000 is just not a happy plant and I’m not sure why. I have a feeling it’s just a bit of a weak clone and that starting over would produce different results. I did move it twice, so poor thing has had to go to the work of establishing roots more than it should have had to. That’s why I feel I can’t make a fair comparison between the two.

Thank you both so much. Judi,when your YL DOES bloom, does it have a lot of flowers all at one time? because, as I wrote before,for me what counts most is the main spring flush. In our hot, dry summers, constant blooming just isn't "a thing". I don't have running water out at my garden, and nor do I have a house there from which I could admire flowers safely in the brutal heat of summer.

WOW! Thanks, Judi!

Beautiful photo, Judi. I agree that YL is not a continuous bloomer, and mine, which I have grown since it first was introduced in the US, still has the lax growth habit that Judi's beautiful YL shows. YL likes to drape a bit on his neighbors, so I grow him in a very crowded bed where his is free to drape away. His scent is one of the best in my garden, and when he's really in bloom mode, he produces some of the most gorgeous blooms in my garden. There is some variation in the size of his blooms. Diane

Here's my YL draping in Spring. Not a constant bloomer.

All of your photos are so beautiful, and I thank all of you for the info. As I said, continuous bloom isn't a priority for me. It's also really helpful to know about the "draping" habit...@ Diane Brakefield- could you possible elabrate on the term "a very crowded bed". Spacing is a big stumbling block for me ,with all these immature plants . I would like to achieve the effect shown in these photos, of beds literally covered in flowers (unlike the traditional "rose garden" look of each individual plant surrounded by empty space). What is the spacing between plants in your "very crowded bed"? Thank you so much in advance!

I can’t compare as of those two, I only have WS2K bart. However, in very hot climates, without good/well amended soil, regular feeding, deep watering and (ideally) afternoon shade, I don’t think any of the heavily petalled Austins could ever come anywhere close to a zillion blooms at once and/or continuous bloom. Mine do get all that, but even so, they will bloom in distinct flushes and many stop altogether in the height of summer. Of the darker Austins, Munstead Wood is the one that blooms the best and the longest for me, even in the most sun exposure. My WS2K not so much, but I am fond of it nevertheless - especially the fragrance.

YL doesn’t have the best rep for health, especially in hot and humid climates with high disease pressures - like mine - which is why I have always hesitated to try it.

I have found though, that roses can surprise you either way and there is no subsitute for trying them. I hope they both turn out to be good roses for you.

I do a LOT of work on soil, Nollie.Many areas of my garden have almost non-existing soil,lol-I mean it is so thin and poorthat I've had to build it up-literally-with native soil from elsewhere, bagged potting soil, betonite-based kitty litter, expanded clay-and ,of course, organic matter.I have no problem with roses not blooming in summer-as I said, what's the point if I can't enjoy them anyway? The afternoon shade thing is more difficult-my land is on a sharp slope facing south-west. In these past years, I've been trying to plant strategic trees that will block some of that ferocious afternoon sun. Back when I started out, so many years ago, it wasn't a problem. Now it is.

Oh same here with both the increasing length/intensity of heatwaves and thin layer of crappy soil, bart. I can’t get a spade in the ground anywhere without immediately hitting bedrock. I shudder to think of the amount of money I’ve spent over the years creating raised beds and building up my so-called soil in order to grow anything!

Bart, the roses are from 2.5 feet center to center, to 3.5 feet with Julia Child a little farther away. YL primarily drapes on Angel Face, Colette, sometimes Bernstein-Rose, and sometimes Julia Child. Diane

Heading for Julia Child

YL and Angel Face

WOW! Barni recommends a spacing between HTs or floribundas to be from 45-50 cms-that is, a little less or more than a mere 1.5 feet apart!

I guess they think their roses will never exceed 18X18 inches. Chortle. Diane

Diane, I have seen their display garden, and it looks really great,but I don't remember the floribundas and HTs as being much more than-yes, maybe 18 inches-max 2 feet tall! So I've gone with their spacing guide. My plants are all small and immature. In the past I've tried to leave a lot more space between plants, but it hasn't worked out for me at all. Well, we'll see. Climate is such a strange thing,so specific to a place that all that USDA zone stuff seems to me pretty useless. I also know for sure that my roses will never get the generous watering that you can provide. As I said, we shall see. Considering the general orneriness of life, now that I've spaced them so close, what do you want to bet that they instead grow huge, lol?

I've had WS2K for many years, although with the growth of trees, I had to move it to another spot two years ago. YL was new to me this spring.

As first year plants, WS2K is much more floriferous for me.

As an illustration, here is WS2K in a pot after growing from a 1" rooted stem that spring. Here it is in May. With good care, WS2K reblooms through the summer.

YL on the other hand, gave me just a few flowers after being planted from a large bare-root plant this spring. In a pot, it received good potting mix and regular watering, but it did not rebloom for me at all this year, not one bloom.

YL:

Incidentally, leaf health is much better for WS2K for me than YL. WS2K has a more spreading habit, YL is more upright. YL smells like 'Scentuous' to me, WS2K is much sweeter, like violets. Both are strongly scented.