Niche before grout. It's ... fine. The shower as a whole, bathroom as a whole, will be much better than what we had. When we redo the other bathroom we will plan ahead and get a solid surface niche.

Looks good. Remember, 90% of it will be hidden behind products.

It is fine. It will look even better when grouted. And RedRyder's point about products is … wait for it … right on point.

I was focused on wonky tile around the niche, and my contractor misunderstood, pointed out some staggering on the wall tile. There are at least 4 places in the shower where a tile stack doesn't line up with the adjacent stacks. Contractor says it's because the tile sizes were uneven. I wish they would have flagged it, I would have been ok with wider grout lines to make everything line up. Am I being too picky here? Is this normal variation for horizontal stacked tile?

This guy was not a tile pro, by any stretch. Not for the niche, and not for this.^^

An offset would have made it easier

Did he use any spacers? the sliver in the corner would make me crazy.

No no spacers. And the sliver makes me crazy as well. Not as crazy as the niche, which has been slightly improved now, still looks very wonky. Honestly I could live with the slivers and the offsets if the niche didn't look so terrible. But it's all really disappointing. This contractor and his team were recommend to us specifically for their tile skill.

We've pushed pause on grouting now. Going to use this as an opportunity, and at least swap out the niche for a Corian one that matches the pan. I'd really like to start over and get the whole thing done right, even if we have to pay the contractor more to do this.

Hmmm, I don't believe that excuse. Those subway tiles from DAL should all be the same size. It is not the type of tile to have a variation. If the tiler was discovering that the tile was off after 2 or 3 tiles, he should have pulled the offending tile and moved on instead of letting a whole strip get off kilter! I also don't like that sliver. The layout should have been discussed to determine the size of cut tiles and a possible change of grout line sizing to better accommodate the layout.

If you are doing a matching grout, you won't notice a lot of this, but that doesn't appear to be the work of a great tiler IMO. The straight stack is a tricky install. The tile store should have helped with a layout as well. Those look like 3 x 6 tiles. so if one wall is only 32", then the tile should have been 4 full tiles with a 4" one on each side 9 +- for grout lines ) and the 40 1/2" side should be 5 full tiles with 5 1/4 on each side. So I am not sure where that sliver came from.

I do think the niche would have been nicer done with solid material for the whole frame and done as 1 unit with a shelf - don't think that can be changed now though.

I hope in the end that everything will come out ok!

Thanks Debbi! That's very helpful info. Because I'm ready to rip the whole thing out, and clearly I will have to tell them exactly how to do the layout for round 2. The niche looks so bad, it has to come out.

I'm so sorry this has happened. I know this bathroom has been a project you've really looked forward to having done. I hope you can resolve the situation to your satisfaction.

You will have to buy new tile. Are you married to a 3x6? I would look into maybe a 4 x 8 or 3 x 12 , 2 x 8 etc. it may make for an easier layout. I would ask at the tile store to help you calculate or draw it out.

Good luck!

I could switch to 2x8 or 4x12. If we rip it all out I would like to switch to Nemo Metro tile, a cooler white that I like better. IThis project got started before I was really ready for it, and that's a lesson learned. I shouldn't have agreed to rush forward. There are probaby a lot of good cool white tiles that are available in other sizes, I don't have the bandwidth to go hunting. And I really want the Nemo Metro for the upstairs bath for other reasons, and it's kind of nice to have the 2 bathrooms relate to each other in some way.

Your tile guy is good at coming up with excuses!

Spacers and a laser level should have been used, and wider grout lines if the tile is not uniform in size.

this would be a hard NO for me. no way this tile guy knows what he's doing.

(the tiles in the middle are all off center. why wouldn't you use the penny round, or solid quartz, or even do the tiles vertically on this center panel? and he should have used the solid pieces on the sides like he did the bottom. A schluter jolly trim piece (see mine in black below) would have looked better than the varying widths of your bottom shelf piece, and the side pieces!!! unsat!)

(btw, sorry you have to go through this)

this niche is horrible and shows a complete lack of math skills and planning. I would not pay him one dime for that.

compare yours to this niche. (the photo is wonky not the lines in the shower) this is a wor of art to get these tiles lined up without having to cut any of them.

Let me show you examples of properly done niches w/subway tile so you can see the diff:

You'll notice in all of these their are no cut or sliver cut tiles around the box. that's because proper planning and math skills were done to assure the layout is perfectly fitted.

Let me use mine. These are 4X12 (it's a large shower)

Before we even started I measured off this wall and the tile spacing so that I wouldn't have any cut tiles around this niche.

Your shelf and surround should be solid pieces (like quartz or marble) niches are prone to leaks and the less grout lines the better.

This was my neighbor. they went with pre-formed niche, so we HAD to cut

the tiles to make it work (mine above was not preformed)

these are 3x9 tiles. even so, my tile guy was so good, every single tile lines up beautifully.

here's the other side.

do you know if the niche was prepped like this? and waterproofed afterward?

this is unsatisfactory, 100%. no excuse except laziness and ineptitude. do not pay.

Thanks Beth! Those are very helpful pictures. Those and Debbie's pictures will help me map out the next round of tiling and niche design, to get something much better.

The niche buildup did look like your pictures, with the taping all around. And Redguard over everything. So that part at least is probably fine. The tricky step next is to convince my husband that we need a redo.

It needs a redo. I understand he doesn’t want the extra time, mess and overall headache but he should know that if you are not happy with the final result, it will be worse. 😃
You may regret living with this. You will NOT regret a re-do that looks perfect.

There is no reason for those tiles to not line up - many people have used the exact tiles - and I've never heard of a "different" size issue causing wonky grout lines throughout the shower surround. Also, I am 99% positive that those tiles have built-in spacer lugs along the edges - if your installer just butted the tiles up against each other without keeping his eye on making sure that it was all staying consistent, the grout lines can be thrown off. An installer can't just depend on the spacing lugs to provide perfect grout lines (especially if the substrate isn't perfectly flat). He still needs to make adjustments as he goes along. Blaming the tile is just an excuse from an installer that doesn't know what he/she is doing.

I honestly believe that I could have done a better job of installing your tiles - and I've never installed tiles in a bath surround.

I had one of my guest bathrooms renovated fairly recently - I selected Bedrosian Cloe White tiles which are made to look like handmade tiles = they do not have straight edges which makes it more difficult to install and have the grout lines match up to each other.

I also had mine set in a vertical stack = I have horizontal and vertical grout lines that meet up (just like in your surround). My tile pro used a laser + spacers when installing the tile - and my grout lines do not look off like yours do (and remember, my tile was much more difficult to work with than yours).

I would be very unhappy with the tile work + the niche. I had my tile run through the back of my niche - and it matches perfectly with the tile and grout lines that run outside of the niche (and he used a prefab niche in this bathroom - my primary and other guest bathroom both have custom sized niches).

The vertical grout line inside both of the niches in your surround aren't even close to being in line with the vertical grout lines on the shower wall above and below the niches.

I've also never seen a niche constructed like yours where the Schluter (or other brand) trim on the end of the side of the niche is set on top of the bottom of the niche - BUT the top trim is set between the two side trim pieces.

The top edge trim should have been placed as I've shown on the bottom niche (red represents the top piece of trim). I think that it would have made the upper right corner of the top niche line up better (there is more of a gap above that corner). Obviously, the right side trim piece was cut a little longer than it should have been = it's sticking up past the horizontal top trim piece).

If you don't mind my saying? I have long since refused to do a niche for anyone. If a client insists? Be there at the site.

I have yet to find one that was worth the trouble, only to be loaded with grocery store shampoo, and gummy grocery soap,- whittled to a slimy wafer, after achieving the "perfection", . A corner shelf or two takes no space from a shower and one can be low enough for a leg rest for shaving..You aren't standing in that tight corner..

A solid surface, 10 or 12" across a corner is all you need and has no risks involved,

An offset tile is nearly always more attractive than stack, as is a larger size, for less grout. JMO on that........and easier cleaning.

Thanks, @dani_m08! The Schluter really does drive me crazy. I really would have preferred that he miter the top and side joins, but agree with you, running the top piece the full length, across the side pieces, would also look better than what's there.

@JAN MOYER, point taken on the niche. For me, it wasn't about getting something flashy and perfect, it's about having a way to make the bottles less visible. And also, that I couldn't find shower shelves that I liked the look of. But I was looking at tile shelves and metal Schluter shelves. Getting some Corian shelves that match the pan is probably doable. I will consider. I do love the idea of a foot rest for shaving. As for tile size/layout, my head says you are right (I love all of your work that you've shown) but I personally dislike very large tiles, and most offset patterns.

@freedomplace1, the same thoughts have definitely occurred to me. The reason for trying again with this guy is that 2 neighbors who are realtors have already done a lot of repeat business with this tile guy, and swear he's excellent. And they have standards--the neighbor who has looked at my shower also doesn't like it. She thinks I need a redo, and she will be watching how it goes. Everyone does have off days.

@mcarroll16 - I understand.

I went back and skimmed through the thread. I notice that you said the niche bothers you the most. Maybe just consider niche inserts. Amazon sells them. Etsy, too, I think. Etc. There are some nice ones and it might give you even more of a designer look than the tile niches.

Perfection is overrated. Plus, it’s a lot to have to go through again.

If you do decide to go through with doing it again, with this guy, I wish you the best.

Thanks @freedomplace1! If we did a custom niche--could the tiles be replaced with the niche, without having to redo the waterproofing on the wall? Because if things have to be ripped out anyway to redo the waterproofing, then it's worth trying again on the tile. If the niche can just be swapped, might go for that. Especially if it means DH will agree to a shower curtain instead of a glass door.

You’re welcome, @mcarroll16 .

No, to my knowledge you cannot just re-do the tile niches without having to re-do all of it. The waterproofing is compromised as soon as you touch them. But you can install a niche cover type thing. That is what I was referring to. You fit it into the niche. Very easy to do.

You can research. I am trying to paste a link for a discussion about it, that I had just found on a quick search. I’m having trouble with my phone right now. I’ll add the link here as soon as can.

ETA:

Voila! :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tile/comments/17uuk25/covering_an_existing_tile_niche_with_a_stainless/

As I am looking around, I see there are different views on whether the niches, alone, can be re-done/replaced. So definitely get some expert opinions on that. It may be possible. Personally, I would probably not want to mess with it. But I can’t rule it out as being a possibility for you, because I just don’t know for sure. Do you keep shampoos, etc. in niches? If you do- they will be covered pretty soon, anyway.

I hope you get the shower curtain. More elbow room. Easier access, too. I do not particularly care for glass shower doors, myself.

Oh wow, thanks for the helpful Reddit link! A Corian niche insert slid over the tile is definitely worth investigating, if husband stays opposed to a full redo.

Been lurking here. A redo of any shower tile job is stressful, understandable. The niche insert IMO is a good fix on the niches and if I may, changing the grout color could help the unevenness of the grout lines with a white grout. Yea white grout can be a bit more maintenance/cleaning down the road but there are great grout refresh products available now.

Thanks Alice! We are planning white grout. The shower isn't grouted yet--I asked them to pause so any rip outs would be a little easier.

The Dal Tile tiles you used are uniform and there’s no reason to switch to a new tile selection for the redo….Consider a vertical stack if it allows for a full tile at each corner or switch to a brick layout - whatever works best to get a clean look. I also like corner shelves and even like the Kohler baskets (assuming your shower metal selections will coordinate).

Yeah, I know his claim about the tile is BS. I would switch because I like the color of Nemo's Metro tile better. It's a cooler crisper white. The current poor tile job could be an opportunity to fix my own tile selection mistake. If I think they can do it better the second time. Hard choices ahead.

So I have an opportunity to show off my two young grandson’s new tub area lol. They wanted blue and what started as a leak turned unto a complete re do of the tub and surround. You just never know what lies ahead when these projects show themselves. Everyone is super happy after a drawn out projevt

Wish I had a better picture bc that tile goes all the way to the ceiling lol

That's beautiful! I'm glad their bathroom turned out well!

Thank you, the discussions on the layout were like mind blowing lol. Yours will come about one way or another :) bc we are not versed in any projects like this. Yea our tile guy is professional but there are always needed discussions along the way.

Good news--contractor stopped by and agreed that the tile isn't stacked right, and is willing to rip it out. We looked at the remaining tile, and it is missing the spacer lugs that are supposed to be there. So there's some truth to the tile guy's claim about inconsistent sizing. Not a great excuse--use spacers!--but it's nice to have something that can help him save face and keep working relationship friendly.

Silver lining--I can switch to the Nemo tile I like better, and we can switch to Corian niche insert. For the redo, we will negotiate the exact layout and the use of spacers in advance.

Great news--good luck with it!

That is indeed good news! Maybe a happy accident.

I am so happy for you!

I would try to have the size of the tile + the size of the niche work well together = allows for the sides/top/bottom of niche to be in line with grout lines.

I think that finished showers/tub surrounds that include a niche look so much better when there aren't little cut tiles needed around the top/corner/sides of the niche. That is the reason that I paid more to have custom sized niches made on site for the other guest bathroom + my primary bathroom. I wanted everything to line up exactly.

When I was having him tile the surround in the last guest bathroom, he had a pre-fab niche that worked well with the tile size + the niche was on the side wall of an alcove tub across from the doorway (you don't see the niche "head on" when you walk into the bathroom).

I think that Corian niches look nice - all the edges are crisp/clean + you never have to worry about the inside of your niche leaking. That would have worked well in my last guest bathroom - but I didn't know about them until there wasn't time to have one ordered.

"We looked at the remaining tile, and it is missing the spacer lugs that are supposed to be there. "

Highly doubtful, and probably not even possible due to the way that the tile is manufactured. It's just that you and the tile hack do not understand that the Daltile 3x6 tile has one continuous spacer lug on each side, not two little ones that are easy to see. To the inexperienced, it will appear that there is no spacer, but look closely and you will see it. It is a poor design in my opinion because it leaves very little room for grout, and that is why I always space the tiles a little further apart than just using the built-in spacer would allow.

Thanks catbuilder. We did figure that out yesterday. Doesn't even matter. The way the contractor is explaining the problem is not giving me confidence that the second try will work. I need to do a little more research to feel totally confident in a conversation, then have a conference with him and the tile guy about how they do things, and then make a decision from there.

Sounds like you need a more competent tile installer.

I’m glad this is getting redone. But I’m with Diana. If you’re redoing the tile work (which is called for) and using the same contractor, please have a conversation about Round Two and your expectations.

I would be checking the tile work every 20 minutes if this were my bathroom. I’ve got fingers gets crossed that it goes well and we see a happy ending.

As I said a long time ago- I would not use the same people. Period.

I'm a professional, and I wouldn't be using a tilesetter that I had to check his work every 20 minutes. If you have a tile person who knows what they're doing, you tell them what you want and trust that they will do it.

There is no point to checking the work every 20 minutes, it’s a futile effort. And yes, if you feel like you have to check the work every 20 minutes- that should be considered a red flag- or, at least a clue.

At this point, I would be thanking my lucky stars if the waterproofing was done adequately, and if the shower is functional. And I would move on. I would not let these people touch it again. I would live with it. Or get somebody else to re-do it.

if the tile guy knew what he was doing, he would have done it correctly the first time. having him redo is a waste of your time.

Find a new tile setter that you've checked his work. (if you go into a well respected tile store and ask the manager "who would you get to tile your bathroom", you'll get some references.

Shower is back on track! Our contractor swapped out the tile guy for someone who is doing a great job. During the downtime, we took Jan and Diana's advice and had a Corian niche fabricated, and we found a better tile. So appreicate all the Houzz advice that gave me the confidence to insist on a redo!

So happy it’s working out for you!

Great results after a real headache! I'm curious. Did the contractor make the change in tiler, or did you have to push for that? If you did, that's good info for others to know. If the contractor offered without you having to fight for it, that seems to be reassurance that you have a good contractor!

I'm so happy for you! This has been a real journey and hopefully you can see the end of the road now.