"So if I am understanding the below right, I have fairly deep soil which drains decently for as much as folks complain about the clay. Also if you let the land go long enough you will get a white oak forest with a few sumac at the edges?"

Yes, you should have fairly deep soil and pretty good drainage. And, if you let the land go long enough you will get a good monoculture stand of some kind of nasty invasive pest plants.

i spent about 20 mins.. never got to a page that looked like this ... for my property ...

but i dont trust any of it .... its all akin to microclimate .... you could be one zone.. and the guy next door another ...

you could have wonderful soil... and 100 feet away ... muck ...

here in my county .... half clay.. half sand... after a good heavy rain storm ... you can tell which land is clay.. for the week long standing puddles [and dead crops]... and which are already bone dry ... or later in the year.. the good clay based soil crops ... versus the sand crops which died in a hot drought ....

i think this all keys into your comment about some peeps complaining.. when the gub-ment report claims otherwise ...

the report is broad generalities.. limited by what is actually in your garden ... and in suburbia.. the tractor that took all the good stuff away .....

all that said.. fun to learn.. eh????

ken

Ken, why are you always so quick to think nothing can work? You admit that you didn't even fully figure out how to use the tool, but you just assume it's untrustworthy? That doesn't sound like rational thinking to me. Don't be afraid to think something can actually work even if you can't immediately fully understand it at a quick glance.

The tool, linked below, is actually a very useful and fairly reliable way to determine the general soil type in a particular area. Unless there's some mistake in your local soil survey (which is unlikely to be the case), on which the data is based, or, there's some weird anomaly at a particular location, there's little reason for the results to be incorrect.

If you were able to define the Area of Interest for your locations, you can find the specific soil-type descriptions by clicking on the Soil Map tab and then double clicking on the Map Unit Name (the name of the soil type) field over to the left hand side of the map.

Here is a link that might be useful: USDA's Web Soil Survey

OK, Ken, here are the results for your yard:

The north, west, and south (including up to almost half way to the middle of your property) sides of your yard are Oshtemo loamy sand with 3 to 7 percent slopes. Starting just up behind your garage (guess that's what it is), and continuing/broadening out towards the east side of your yard is Fox sandy loam with a 0 to 3 percent slopes. Here is the data for each type:

ObB - Oshtemo loamy sand, 3 to 7 percent slopes
Elevation: 600 to 1,000 feet
Mean annual precipitation: 28 to 36 inches
Mean annual air temperature: 46 to 50 degrees F
Frost-free period: 120 to 150 days
Oshtemo and similar soils: 100 percent
Landform: Knolls on glacial drainage channels
Landform position (three-dimensional): Rise
Down-slope shape: Linear
Across-slope shape: Convex
Parent material: Stratified loamy and/or sandy glaciofluvial deposits
Slope: 3 to 7 percent
Depth to restrictive feature: More than 80 inches
Drainage class: Well drained
Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water (Ksat): High (1.98 to 5.95 in/hr)
Depth to water table: More than 80 inches
Frequency of flooding: None
Frequency of ponding: None
Calcium carbonate, maximum content: 25 percent
Available water capacity: Moderate (about 6.9 inches)
Farmland classification: Farmland of local importance
Land capability classification (irrigated): 3e
Land capability (nonirrigated): 3s
Hydrologic Soil Group: B
0 to 14 inches: Loamy sand
14 to 45 inches: Sandy loam
45 to 60 inches: Stratified gravelly sand to sand

FcA - Fox sandy loam, 0 to 3 percent slopes
Elevation: 580 to 1,300 feet
Mean annual precipitation: 27 to 44 inches
Mean annual air temperature: 45 to 57 degrees F
Frost-free period: 125 to 190 days
Fox and similar soils: 100 percent
Landform: Knolls on glacial drainage channels
Landform position (three-dimensional): Rise
Down-slope shape: Linear
Across-slope shape: Convex
Parent material: Loamy supraglacial till over sandy and gravelly glaciofluvial deposits
Slope: 0 to 3 percent
Depth to restrictive feature: More than 80 inches
Drainage class: Well drained
Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water (Ksat): Moderately high to high (0.57 to 1.98 in/hr)
Depth to water table: More than 80 inches
Frequency of flooding: None
Frequency of ponding: None
Calcium carbonate, maximum content: 45 percent
Available water capacity: Moderate (about 6.2 inches)
Farmland classification: All areas are prime farmland
Land capability (nonirrigated): 2s
Hydrologic Soil Group: B
0 to 15 inches: Sandy loam
15 to 32 inches: Clay loam
32 to 60 inches: Gravelly sand

toronado;
I think the
"Ecological site: Quercus alba-Quercus velutina/Rhus aromatica/Elymus virginicus-Solidago ulmifolia (F115BY001MO)
Other vegetative classification: Trees/Timber (Woody Vegetation)"
that you list, is what is typical native vegetation found on your soil type. FWIW, the high available water capacity is important for tree survival during drought periods. Larger established trees are able to access much of the stored sub-soil water during times lacking in rainfall.

Arktrees

All I get is "tabular and spacial" area PA051. One click showed me a US map in mostly green color, WTF? I can see my neighborhood and zoom in relatively close, but can't seem to find detailed data. I'm 119 Vail lane Smock Pa 15480. I am not tech savvy, can anyone get some info with what I've provided. I am happy that some of my trees are large enough to be visible from above! The largest where planted in the 70's by my family, but some are mine.

Poaky, If I guessed right about where your yard starts and stops (outlined by what looks like a partial hedge or fencerow and going back to where the wooded area starts), it shows that almost all of your yard (except for right along the back edge on the eastern side) is Guernsey silt loam with 3 to 8 percent slopes. Not sure what caused your technical issue. Here are the results for that type of soil:

GyB - Guernsey silt loam, 3 to 8 percent slopes
Elevation: 800 to 1,200 feet
Mean annual precipitation: 36 to 46 inches
Mean annual air temperature: 41 to 62 degrees F
Frost-free period: 130 to 160 days
Guernsey and similar soils: 85 percent
Landform: Hills
Landform position (two-dimensional): Backslope, summit
Landform position (three-dimensional): Interfluve
Down-slope shape: Linear, concave
Across-slope shape: Concave
Parent material: Residuum weathered from limestone and calcareous shale
Slope: 3 to 8 percent
Depth to restrictive feature: 50 to 75 inches to lithic bedrock
Drainage class: Moderately well drained
Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water (Ksat): Very low to moderately high (0.00 to 0.20 in/hr)
Depth to water table: About 17 to 25 inches
Frequency of flooding: None
Frequency of ponding: None
Available water capacity: Moderate (about 8.4 inches)
Farmland classification: All areas are prime farmland
Land capability (nonirrigated): 2e
Hydrologic Soil Group: C
0 to 7 inches: Silt loam
7 to 27 inches: Silty clay loam
27 to 47 inches: Clay
47 to 56 inches: Silty clay
56 to 63 inches: Bedrock

Sometimes there's a glich, I've been using it for years and it can be a bit quirky now and then. Poaky, I went right to yours. I doesn't surprise me that the village idiot can't figure it out, it's something he can't control.

ken_adrian- 6466 posts as of 1-3-13

Here's mine:

Caddo Parish, Louisiana
Woodtell fine sandy loam, 3 to 8 percent slopes
Map Unit Setting
Elevation: 300 to 650 feet
Mean annual precipitation: 40 to 46 inches
Mean annual air temperature: 63 to 68 degrees F
Frost-free period: 230 to 270 days
Map Unit Composition
Woodtell and similar soils: 86 percent
Description of Woodtell
Setting
Landform: Interfluves
Down-slope shape: Convex
Across-slope shape: Linear
Parent material: Residuum weathered from sandstone and shale in the wilcox and cook mountain formations of eocene age
Properties and qualities
Slope: 3 to 8 percent
Depth to restrictive feature: More than 80 inches
Drainage class: Well drained
Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water (Ksat): Very low to moderately low (0.00 to 0.06 in/hr)
Depth to water table: More than 80 inches
Frequency of flooding: None
Frequency of ponding: None
Available water capacity: Moderate (about 8.3 inches)
Interpretive groups
Farmland classification: Not prime farmland
Land capability (nonirrigated): 4e
Hydrologic Soil Group: D
Typical profile
0 to 5 inches: Fine sandy loam
5 to 36 inches: Silty clay
36 to 45 inches: Clay
45 to 63 inches: Stratified sandy clay loam to clay

This post was edited by fairfield8619 on Sat, Jan 4, 14 at 0:01

I have to ask Brandon, how do you know poaky and Ken's home location?

I think its as simple as you having their address from outside email contact but have to ask in case you cracked a code, lol.

Farfield, is that sarcasm or is that actually posted somewhere? I have to see what I've been up to!

Working for the NSA has its privileges.

OK, for the real answer, Ken posted his coordinates in another thread when he was presenting his garden. If you haven't seen his garden, you should! Poaky's address is posted above.

Oh lord, I completely missed the address, lol.

I posted a google earth image of my last home that had the coordinates so I thought it has somethign to do with cordinates.

Very informative site. Thanks for posting the link. Just to let you know what it said about my chunk of land here on the west side of the Salt Lake Valley, here is what we deal with:

Salt Lake Area, Utah
BgA��"Bingham loam, 1 to 3 percent slopes
Map Unit Setting
Elevation: 4,350 to 5,200 feet
Mean annual precipitation: 16 to 18 inches
Mean annual air temperature: 51 to 54 degrees F
Frost-free period: 150 to 180 days
Map Unit Composition
Bingham and similar soils: 100 percent
Description of Bingham
Setting
Landform: Lake terraces, alluvial fans
Landform position (three-dimensional): Tread
Down-slope shape: Linear
Across-slope shape: Linear
Parent material: Gravelly alluvium
Properties and qualities
Slope: 1 to 3 percent
Depth to restrictive feature: More than 80 inches
Drainage class: Well drained
Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water
(Ksat): Moderately high to high (0.60 to 2.00 in/hr)
Depth to water table: More than 80 inches
Frequency of flooding: None
Frequency of ponding: None
Calcium carbonate, maximum content: 40 percent
Maximum salinity: Nonsaline (0.0 to 2.0 mmhos/cm)
Sodium adsorption ratio, maximum: 5.0
Available water capacity: Low (about 5.1 inches)
Interpretive groups
Farmland classification: Prime farmland if irrigated
Land capability classification (irrigated): 3s
Land capability (nonirrigated): 6s
Hydrologic Soil Group: B
Ecological site: Upland Gravelly Loam (Bonneville Big Sagebrush)
(R028AY306UT)
Typical profile
0 to 6 inches: Loam
6 to 10 inches: Loam
10 to 14 inches: Gravelly loam
14 to 23 inches: Gravelly clay loam
23 to 35 inches: Cobbly clay loam
35 to 60 inches: Very cobbly loamy sand

Whaas, it wasn't about you.

My yard is mostly in the front of the house Brandon, the house that is marked once you type in the address is mine. There is a small bit of yard, then the neighbors driveway in back. The house and then front yard and a row of Swamp white oak mark the property line. It is almost 2 acres. We used to own what the neighbor has, but sold a couple acres. I would imagine it's still silty loam, but the well drained part isn't correct for the southeastern edge of our front yard. Thanks Brandon. I am guessing you thought I owned more than I do, there is a hedgerow between me and the neighbor, but the thick pine forest growth is 2 neighbors houses from me. There is a forest at the end of my driveway facing north, though, it's deciduous. I may be the village idiot here, I need my brothers help to figure how to do things on my computer all the time.

Hmmm, when I pull up the address, it shows (although exact addresses are often not exactly right on Google maps) to be the first house on the left off of Vail Lane. I looked for a house that matches your description, but am not sure which one it would be.

16 to 25 inches to water table in my yard, but as much as 80 inches in Louisiana? I would have thought that it would have been my yard having farther down to reach the water-table than Louisiana. I guess it depends WHERE in Louisiana, right? My south eastern corner in my front yard is supposed to have an "underground stream", so that explains part of the yard. I assume that means that my tree roots can handle drought if they stretch down to the water table? I am referring to trees that aren't all that drought proof in dry soil.

It lists parent material as Limestone and calcerous shale, maybe that is why Hemlock trees won't grow in my yard? That may be a dumb statement, but there is a chance I am right.

thx brandon ...

my point.. was ... if i had one [dont ever say that to your wife .. lol] ...

is that when i look at the words... i see sandy LOAM ... basically ... and in my world.. warped as it is.. loam is the lifeblood of a good soil .... its basically the compost we are supposed to add.. to fortify our soils ....

the link is a very simple definition of loam ... and i do understand it is a term of art for the soil scientist ....

and below is a pic of a septic field dig 15 feet form the south of my property ... sorry.. i just dont SEE ... key word there ... humus .... [nor clay in my yard] ..... humus in my mind.. being the stuff that retains water in sand.. and offers some nutrients ...

anyway ... it is interesting.. that one of the remarks is toward the everyones soils 'farmland capabilities' ... and i am enjoying comparing such.. to each of you that i know well enough to know your trials and tribulations ....

in regard to trees/conifers... the real key is drainage .. and boy do i have that ... my soil probably defines why pines and quercus grow like weeds here ....

ken

ps: lets see.. member for near on 10 years ... thats 3650 days ... i guess i am am averaging under 2 posts a day ... lol .... i better get my act together and do more .... or!!! i should have posted each pic in an individual reply ... the GW system.. and i could have had 4 or 5 for this ... lol ...

not the lack of any evidence of deep reaching roots ... though its hard to see in the pic.. the hole is about 2 or 3 feet from the trunk ...
{{gwi:208954}}

OMG.. look at the green giants back there in 2005 ... back behind the green pail ... one on each side.. 20 feet up the hill or so ... lol ... looking north

{{gwi:250981}}

here is the same row in 2009 ... looking east

{{gwi:326682}}

Here is a link that might be useful: i might have to go buy some chickpeas ... for some reason i am craving hummus

How do you get these soil reports?

Edlincoln: See text above and/or in the other recent thread USDA's Web Soil Survey. If you need more info, please be more specific.

Ken, I know this is dumb, but I just realized that your kid's sandbox was really just a hole in the yard! I never put 2 and 2 together. Or, if I did, I still just came up with 3. Around here, we have to make sand boxes; there you just dig a hole and instant sandbox. Now if mother nature would only bury free Tonka trunks every few feet...

You were right Brandon, first house on the left on Vail lane. Nobody come rob me, I don't have anything worth taking! Just joking of course.

Cool, then it looks like the profile I pasted above is yours.

I guess I shouldn't mention all that gold jewelery I can see on the satellite image, laying out on your bedroom dresser there by the window. (-;

I freakin wish.........

What your seeing are cats, the big orange one may look like a giant gold nugget, someone can come take some of these (my moms) cats all over my room, Dresser, TV stand, bedside table, etc.

Dumb question, perhaps, or not. Why doesn't the soil profile for fair field 8619 list bedrock in the eventual last soil profile? There are areas of Louisiana where the earth is being swallowed up by the swamps, I had seen this happening on TV, I am sorry, I don't remember the video source, but you surely can see it on the web, are these areas affected in coastal/ swamp/ bayou areas only? Perhaps inland Louisiana has bedrock, or is their lower soil profile prone to give way, like Limestone as Florida has mostly under the sandy soil? Does the Florida panhandle have more stable ground with crust/bedrock than the pan or peninsula part?