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Help with Nursery-Topped trees!

17 years ago

Greetings!

Right to the issue then I'll unpack it.

I ordered a few trees from The Nursery at TyTy, GA. They are several years old, 6-7' tall and an inch or more caliper. I just noticed that each one was topped by the nursery. The main leader is cut and in no case is there a "leader-apparent" nearby to take its place. I can take photos if it would be helpful. They are pin oak, weeping willow, tulip tree and euro mountain ash.

My question: Is this bad? I think this is bad!

Unpacking the issue: First, I have never seen such trees come mail-order and I've rarely seen such even in nurseries. They are gorgeous, really gorgeous. They were supposed to be 5-7' tall and they are all on the higher end of that.

The arrived in late November when the ground was frozen. Gratefully, the day after they arrived was a freakish day in the 50's and there was enough thaw for me to put them in the ground. I am just noticing now that they are all topped. In the case of the weeping willow, all the upward-facing branches have been pruned, not just the leader.

Should I panic?

I also want to give a general but most heartfelt THANKS to the Garden Web fora participants and those who run the site. I have just joined as a member but have made extensive use of this site, particularly over the past year, which has been a tremendous aide in decision-making. Nothing like tapping into the experience of so many others!

ANY HELP or ASSURANCE you can give me would be most appreciated! Thank you so much!

-- Jay

Comments (8)

  • 17 years ago

    When the trees begin growing they will form one or more leaders. If they do this, allow them to grow, then in June/July when the green wood begins to harden off, select the best of the multiple leaders. Trim/cut back the other leaders to at least half of their height. The reason is the leaves from these leaders will continue to make food for the new tree. Next spring around this time (before growth begins) cut all leaders that were cut back, completely off the tree. The new leader will grow vigorously and in a few years you will never know the tree was trimmed in such a fashion.

    If the trees send up one dominent leader, leave it to grow.

    pin oak - will form new leader readily - train to one leader.
    weeping willow - can form multiple leaders, due to weak wood, train to one leader.
    tulip tree - train to one leader as the wood is brittle and prone to storm breakage.
    euro mountain ash - train to one leader.

    All of these trees will grow new leaders without any problems. I have grown all of these except weeping willow and they are trainable with good training and judicious pruning.

  • 17 years ago

    "I ordered a few trees from The Nursery at TyTy, GA"

    Uh oh, there's your problem right there. You might want to do a little Googling on that place.

    I'm curious what the root systems look like. Do they have nice full root systems? Do they have any circling roots like they have been crammed in a pot for too long? The reason I ask is because if the roots look good you might be better off cutting them to the ground and letting them start over.

  • 17 years ago

    First of all, welcome to old-school nurserymen. Sorry this happened to you.

    Second, I agree in general with krazy above, but pin oak and tuliptree shouldn't have been headed. If you follow instructions above, in 40 years you likely can't tell but you have to ensure they get their central leader back.

    The only thing I'd add to krazy's comment is that second year, you'll need to rub off any bud formation on the trunk near the heading cut,. as it is likely some may form from the pruning reaction. In addition, there may be additional pruning reactions the second year and don't be afraid to take action to ensure your chosen leader remains a leader.

    Last, willows could care less about heading cuts. One of the highlights of a studio I did in SE Montana was driving along and seeing all the willows pruned by the Native Americans. They use the branches for more things than you can imagine, and heading the entire plant gives them many straight branches. They do this again and again and again.

    Dan

  • 17 years ago

    WAIT!!! You are telling us that you actually got live plants from TyTy??? That is extremely unusual from what I've heard. Chances are they may be misidentified. I wouldn't assume they are what you ordered. Anyway, congratulations, you are one of only a very few! Next time, check out your source before sending money.

    BTW, TyTy is not on Garden Watchdog. Their rating was very very very bad, and from what I've read, the nursery threatened legal action if their reviews weren't removed. If a nursery isn't on Garden Watchdog, they are either very small, very new, or BAD NEWS!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Watchdog

  • 17 years ago

    Should you panic?

    NO ....

    they are trees ..

    treat them properly for the first two years.. get them established ... through proper watering and mulching ...

    and then do some selective pruning in 2 years ... every leaf matters in generating root growth towards getting them 'established' ....

    i planted 40 6 to 8 foot bare roots oaks a few years back .. 8 foot out of the ground.. mysteriously 6 foot when planted.. go figure on that... ALL HAD PRUNED LEADERS.. most likely for ease of shipping..

    today they range from 12 to 25-30 feet.. 8 years later ... i dont know why there were 2 retards ... lol ...

    i probably mail ordered another 30 'whips' ... which were 1 to 3 feet with a whisp of a root ... and all were pruned for shipping ... and all thrived ...

    i wouldnt have planted an ash .. and i wouldnt have believed it was EAB-proof ... but you will find out sooner or later ...

    the only thing you need to worry about is whether they were properly planted ...

    and if you keep them properly cared for.. this summer.. with water in drought next summer... and then they should be basically free range by the 3 year ... insert finger and water when the soil is hot or dry ... and maintain a nice mulch bed ...

    trees live for decades if not centuries ... panic involves acting within the next ten years.. lol ... just give them proper water.. and there will never be anything worth panicking about....

    good luck

    ken

  • 17 years ago

    Oh boy. I lost my entire reply by hitting the Back button after hitting Preview Message.

    In any event, THANK YOU SO VERY VERY much for your replies! In the meantime, I dug up an older pruning book of mine which dealt with the issue of losing a leader and it also had the same advice as you gave me here. So I gather that I should only be really ticked off and not panicked. :-) I appreciate it most sincerely. Though I would prefer not to have to deal with this at all!

    Regarding TyTy. I did look for them in Dave's Garden 'Scoop' section and they were not listed. Naively, I supposed that meant that they did mostly local business or something. In other words, I saw it as neutral/benign instead of a reason to be wary.
    The reason they caught my attention was that they were offering Wisteria trained as standards. They are very very pricey here in New England and quite rare. (A place in CT sells a few-year-old Wisteria 'trees' for several hundred apiece.) The ones from TyTy were not a pittance but they were not exorbitant, either. It arrived and it looks great. It surely is a Wisteria vine trained as a standard! While I have tied it up as of today, it's weathered a severe New England winter -- a major Nor'easter just last week -- standing on its own.

    While on the site, I decided to order some other trees because they had larger, more mature trees available at a competitive price. Again, not prices so low they were unrealistic, but competitive. So, I ordered and I was very happy. The trees very very very well-packaged and stuffed with paper strips that kept them tight but with plenty of air circulation, plenty of hydrating gel on the roots and roots structures that look very nicely established. Also, as I mentioned, they were the only ones to be 'generous in their accuracy' rather than just 'technically accurate.' (just came up with that phrase and I think I'll keep it.) My experience has been that when ordering a specimen listed as bieng 3-7' in height, it usually arrives at 3'-1/16th.' These from TyTy are actually a few years old and taller than I, and I'm about 6-2/6-3 with my work boots on. Likewise, all the trees appear to be the variety I ordered and which they are labeled.
    But now I am worried! Fingers crossed for when warm weather strikes us here and these plants start to wake up!

    Sincerest thanks again!!!!!

    -- Jay

    Here is a link that might be useful: Motto

  • 17 years ago

    They weren't listed at Dave's because they threatened to sue them.

  • 17 years ago

    I don't care if they sue me.
    They are con artists. Avoid tyty nursery and associated companies like the plague.

    Look them up on bbb.com
    That's the better business bureau