We have a Commemoration and a Fall Fiesta. Of the two Commemoration is slower growing than the FF in both caliper and size. It does grow faster than species, but more like 15-18"/ good year vs 12"/good year for the species. The leaves are smaller but intensely dense green and thicker when mature, but the classic Sugar Maple leaf shape. Caliper is also faster than species. However, our FF has caught up and pasted the Comm. on both caliper and size. It grow 18-22"/good year. The Comm has been more rounded in shape, and the FF more upright oval. However the FF is spreading more now, but then it has lost it's terminal bud the last couple years, and that probable has allot to do with it. Where the Comm. wins between the two, is intense orange to orange-red color. Just gorgeous. It also begins early just like the literature says, and is long lasting just like the literature says. The FF is more variable from year to year, some years orange, other red with some orange, and others yellow orange. Very nice itself, but not as reliable IMHO. Where is loses to Comm. IMHO is that it's color display is much much shorter for us. That may or may not be important to you. I have also seen some very nicely colored very orange Legacy. But to me, they are more of a "flat" orange, while to me Comm is more of a "vivid" orange.Could just be the conditions contributing to that. Also I believe Legacy is later to color.

Other cultivars that I have seen that I like that would be suitable in your Z7 are John Pair and Autumn Splendor which are the 'Caddo" ecotype, and therefore much more heat/drought resistant. They are also smaller trees than the typical species. Both are real lookers in their own right, but I have no personal experience with their growth. Supposedly AS is faster growing of the two. Lastly, I have also seen what I believe are Bon Fire. They are kind of a hot pink red in fall, and reportedly fastest growing Sugar Maple, performing well in warmer climates.

You might look at Moon's Nursery (IIRC) that have some great pics online. IIRC they are in your general area, so that would seem a good place to start.

Arktrees

Thanks for the tips, Ark.

However, I've read (from you, I think, nonetheless) that the Caddo trees actually PREFER alkaline, dry, hot areas. Our soil is quite acid (pH 5.9) & while we can get hot and dry (humid, but little rainfall) at times in summer, we're generally far more "lush" here than what the Caddo would be used to.

I'd definitely try one, but it's smaller size would mean as more of an "accent" type plant than a primary "BIG" yard tree.

FWIW, despite our hot, long summers, Sugars seem happy here. Technically they're native, but I don't really see them growing in the wild around here. I've seen them up in the hillier areas N into PA or west into Western MD (& the comparable areas of VA and WV).

A. rubrums are FAR more common in the wild around here. An interesting observation: Originally I'm from Northeast Ohio. Sugar maples were a lot more common in the wild there in Ohio than MD, yet you see more planted Sugar Maples here in MD.

That said, as I mentioned, they do fine. There's a "Green Mountain" across the street that has a reliable, albeit rather muted orange-yellow color each year, and what I presume is a seedling tree (it's huge, so probably far too old to be a cultivar, at least a common one, probably 3-feet caliper & 85 feet tall) that has a very late, yellow color (after Nov. 1) that is as brilliant as a ginkgo w/o a single hint of orange. Both trees fared just fine in the heat last summer w/no tattering or scorching.

I'll check out Moon's as well! Thanks.

FWIW,
I believe the Caddo would be fine with the acid soil. But if your looking for the larger trees, then they do not fit the bill.

Arktrees

This post was edited by arktrees on Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 7:00

Ark - I assume you mean the Caddos WOULD be fine w/acid soil?

The color on the Autumn Splendor is enticing, even if it's a somewhat smaller tree. Who sells it?? I can't find it online.

Your right. I mis-typed. Too many distractions at the time. Anyway, I don't know of an online source. They show up around here from time to time, and I have seen the listed in various places on the wholesale level. So you would probable have to talk to your area nurseries about trying to get them for you. Also, something I left out about the acid soil. These 'Caddo' selections are all but certain to be grafted onto species Sugar Maple root stock, meaning the roots would be species Sugar Maple, and not 'Caddo'. Therefore since the roots would be species, the roots would have the same preferences as the species. And for the record, I have seen two seed grown 'Caddo' in acidic Arkansas soil with no issues.

Arktrees

OK, that helps.

FWIW when it comes to trees at least (not so for lots of veggie plants & herbaceous plants), an alkaline-preferring tree can usually handle acid soil much better than an acid-preferring tree can handle alkaline soil.

The chlorotic pin oaks in Columbus, OH can attest to that.

It seems that "Nature Hills" may sell Autumn Splendor, I found it the other day but now I can't. (From what I've read here, I'd rather not buy from them).

After I have though about it for a bit, I MIGHT be able to help you find them. If you can find a local nursery that buys from J. Frank Schmidt & Son Co, you might be able to get them from there. I have seen brochures from them promoting Autumn Splendor from Schmidt. Also check with Greer Gardens. I bought a very hard to find 'Beni Fuji' Cornus kousa from them. They may be able to get AS if they have a reason to do so. They have lots of rare stuff.

Arktrees

You know what I just thought of?

Caddo might be a good way to put Sugar maples back as street trees in the East. Not so much in the concrete jungle type areas, but maybe in residential neighborhoods...they'd better handle the compact, dry soils, more alkaline conditions (due to concrete, salt, etc) than the standard species.

Late to the party here but finalizing my own sugar maple seletions for next spring.

A key point here is that you have to ensure the source is actually using caddo rootstock. You have plenty of grafters out there that will graft on species sugar maple.

Same holds true for the drought tolerant species sugar maples like Morton and Green Mountain. They'd have to be rooted to exhibit drought tolerance...although the leaves would still resist leaf tatter.

Good post, just my insights based on some research.

My understanding is that while it is "possible" to propagate Sugar Maple by cuttings (therefore, on their own root), there seems to be an issue with the new rooted cuttings surviving the winter, even in climates extremely mild for the generally z3/4 hardy Sugar Maple.

So that is why they're grafted. I wonder if using Caddo rootstock would "dwarf" standard species saccharums.