If it is very spindly, suggests it was heavily shaded in the nursery. If you've planted it in full sun, the change in light conditions, with the staking, might be enough to trigger apical dominance. Hope it works!

Resin

I am having this same problem with a grafted Metasequoia 'Ogon'. I am going to cut the plant back to see if this will trigger the plant to throw a leader. I also cut the top of my Picea glauca 'Pendula' back last fall due to finding out a side branch was trained upright at about 3'. It wasn't easy to see and at almost 6' the tree still needed staking.

We'll see if this works...
Good luck.
tl3

I've only read of what Picea pungens do and they could ramble for many years however will throw a leader up sometime.

Wish I could help but I don't know. Something deep in the mind tells me that almost every single plant with a minute exception of possible 1 in 50,000 will never achieve apical dominance.

Resin is pretty smart with the little things too. His mention of sunlight being a help could be something.

Dax

man .... i gotta tell .. they will do it when they dam well want to ...

you have to just keep encouraging them ...

some .. tie them the first year.. and by fall ... they are all set ...

others .... i have been tying and retying them for over 7 years ... and they still don't get the idea ...

these days ... in the vein of.. if i knew then .. what i know now ... i plant a tree upright in the hole ... even if that means planting its rootball at a 45 degree angle .. sorry resin .. dont know the metric conversion on those degrees ....lol ... keeping in mind trunk flare and proper planting depth, etc ... you can cut years off the effort to straighten them this way ... and i am referring to smaller potted stock ... not giant transplants ...

good luck

ken

Thanks folks--I get the idea, this leader thing can be frustrating and may take a long time.

Another question, and forgive me if it is too specific. The Abies numidica I have staked and tied really tight and straight. Is this the best way, or is it just as good to tie up the "tree" so that it is generally erect, but not 'ramrod" straight?

The P. orientalis nutans I have I have been tying up, but not absolutely straight--I have just been taking the longest shoot and tying it up taller than the rest of the plant. I have done this partly because the rather awkward shape of the plant makes really strictly straight staking a bit awkward to do. Is what I am doing helping, or should I really force things to tie them up really straight? These plants are growing larger every year and taller--one is a bit over three feet now and the other just a bit less. And the vigor is OK--I would say the best growth shoot each year is about a foot. But it really shows no signs of becoming a leader, and sometimes the shoot I tie up as the tallest is not the one that grows the most the next year. So should I tie it up really strictly straight?

--Spruce

i always tie loosely ... in case i lose track of reality for a couple years.. on any given specimen.. thereby avoiding choking off the trunk .. plus the idea of some movement in the wind is good for development ...

if you can not achieve your goal with one stake ... then put one opposite it .. so that you can put opposing ties ... does that make sense?

and keep in mind... a little crookedness of the trunk ... of a VERY YOUNG tree ... will really mean nothing 10 ... 20 .. 50 years down the line ...

we are offering guidance to the tree ... we are interfering with its ability to take care of business ... so in my yard.. always err toward doing less ... or to sum it up.. dont kill it with too much love ....

all we are trying to do .. is avoid 4 feet of lateral growth .. before it decides to grow upwards .... now that would be a tree that could fail ... whether you tie it to 70 degrees ... or 80 ... or a perfect 90 ... i would suggest the tree really doesnt care ....

and absolutely most important ... you have many years to accomplish your goal ... i have broken many a leader .. trying to do it in the first tying ... if a branch is problematic ... pull it up to 30 degrees.. a month later to 40 ... to 50 .. etc ...if a tree is going to live for 100 years .... a couple months.. or even years to straighten it out.. means nothing ....

the only problem.. is our preconceived notion of what it should look like ... which leads back to my WEIDER THE BETTER thoughts ... but i would have no qualms about cutting it down in 5 years... if it got so weird that it became a problem ... [yeah right.. i keep saying that.. when will i actually cut one down.. lol] ....

good luck
ken

Thanks, Ken. I will keeping doing the P. orientalis "nutans" as I have been doing. Same with the "Gowdy." As for the Abies nebrodensis I will loosen it up a bit after it starts growing. It may be best to keep it fairly tight now because in the early spring we have terrible winds here and I don't want the top thrashing around too much, especially with delicate new growth. This thing is really leggy, thin, and weak. But it is not now so tight that it is being strangled any.

I am encouraged that I am not getting any responses saying that sometimes these things never develop any upright leader. I am patient with trees and like to let them do their own thing in their own time, as you may know from some of the advice I have given here on other kinds of situations.

--Spruce

you will keep better track with your babes ... i tend to lose focus due to my real children .... so tying them tight is relative.. and yes.. i agree you dont want fresh growth whipping around ...

but quit worrying.. do your best.. it is enough 99% of the time ..

no one is going to tell you they never leader up ... first.. ALL NORMAL TREES leader up.. period ...

those that dont.. are not normal trees.. peruse any catalog for spreading/procumbens/groundcover .. etc ... those posts are about how cool they are becasue they spread .. not about wanting a leader ... does that make sense? and they still have lateral leaders.. if you want to look at it that way ...

all trees need growth points.. and they will replace them as needed ... a conifer can not live without a new bud.. and will make them as needed 99.9999999% of the time ... whether ti goes up or out.. the tree will figure it out.. with a little guidance ....

ken

"first.. ALL NORMAL TREES leader up.. period ... "

True, but grafted trees are not normal trees . . .

Resin

you know resin .. i can almost predict .. which comments i type .. that will generate a response .. lol ...

and i know it is all in good fun ....

it bums me out.. when i type one for you.. and you miss it ....

like the recent one about not knowing how to convert the angle of 45 degrees to metric for you .... what is that ... a litre??? ... rotf ....

and do they still serve pints at the local pub????

ken