Well Go, yes a pic would help. But at least as far as one factor-shade tolerance-the balsams are a good pick. Is there room for crown development under the big pine? Also, is there a less formal way of doing this? Again, without a picture, I'm envisioning something a little too stiff-looking under a large, already established pine. I dunno........+oM

why do you want to mound the soil????

are you dealing with clay????

can you actually dig under the pines???

i think your biggest issue will be watering your 4 foot babes ... those big pines are going to be very aggressive in taking any water you put down.. thorough and complete watering throughout the root mass is imperative ....

BTW .. why so large .... larger plants are harder to succeed with.. IMHO ... are you getting ball and burlap ..????

i am also waiting for the pic.. might help understand what you are up against ....

ken

here's the pic

{{gwi:827487}}
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1474/balsamsitec.jpg

Darn, pic was uploading as Ken posted his message. The 4 foot trees will be dug today by hand. they're in sandy soil right now and haven't been pruned. Someone's selling them for $18 dig-your-own. I thought 4' would be a good size because I don't want to wait for years to get some screen, and I know they'll grow slow in the low light conditions. Notice I have a couple of smaller ones staggered in there too.

As firs go, Balsam Fir is one of the less shade tolerant; Abies nordmanniana is more so. Might do even better still with Tsuga canadensis - that is the most shade-tolerant conifer for your zone.

Resin

I'd agree with the Tsuga canadensis but it looks like the deal you found is only for firs. They are cheap enough to try and it looks open enough (at least in the direction the pic was taken). Be aware that maple will be sucking water and nutrients out of the soil during the growing season as well.

tj

Well, thanks for the species recommendations, but...

{{gwi:827488}}

I got these 4, plus a 2" potted p.strobus for $80. I couldn't resist that. The guy who sold them didn't have any hemlock, but that would have been my first choice due to the shade tolerance. The only problem is they grow so slowly and I think I would have spent $80 on one 4' one of those.

So now that I'm going to take the plunge with these balsams, any other tips for planting them? I plan on taking the advice about the broadcast watering; it makes a lot of sense. And my locations are pretty set-in-stone, but I'll make an exception if I hit a huge root. As someone said, it will simply grow back, right into my new tree's root system.

In my opinion Balsam firs seem to do well with part/light shade but not too much shade. I have to say that I have tried for years to establish various firs/spruces under a large White Pine with very little success. The growth is usually stunted and the plants eventually look of poor quality. I have had luck with other types of Pines under the White Pine (especially other dwarf white pines) and I was told that is because the pines develop a tap root to compete with a more extensive root system.

If you can plant them a bit further back so they are clear of the pine's immediate influence, that should be a lot better.

Resin

Thank you for your advice. But man, grrrr... I should just put up a dumb fence! The one on the far right is between the pine and some big spruce, and it's a bit further from the trunks, so maybe at least that one will make it.

I'm going to need a bigger lot.

There's masses of space there - if you put them in about where that twig is lying in the grass behind the left-hand bucket in the first pic, they should do fine.

Resin

Resin, the maple, pine and spruce were all planted about 2 feet off the lot line. This kind of thing has been a recurring problem at this property. If I plant further toward the foreground in the pictures, I will block off access around that side of the house. As I said, I need a bigger lot :p

What lot line? There's no property boundary marker there!

Resin

Abies balsamea is rated the most shade-tolerant of native conifers in the Great Lakes region. As such, it is more shade-tolerant even than Tsuga canadensis. I myself was surprised to read this, but 'tis so.

I also learned, from the same source, which must have been a USDA silvics page, that balsam fir stands produce the greatest amount of biomass per acre of any forest type in this region. That one didn't surprise me-they are thick.

+oM