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blondelle_gw

Perfect Conditions Yet Problems With Herbs

18 years ago

What are we doing wrong? We are mostly growing herbs and hot peppers, on a glassed in terrace with loads of light. We used new windowsill planters and fresh new soil. The plants do well for a month or two and then the parsley developed white spots, the cilantro died, the basil turned yellow on the bottom and lost it's bottom leaves as well as the habanero peppers which also got white fly. We are on the second floor. We used a all around dry fertilizer to water.

We have had these problems for two seasons, and I just don't know what's going wrong. Everything does so well, and then just goes downhill. Would appreciate any suggestions.

Comments (17)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Cilantro does NOT like a lot of sun or heat. Basil is overwatered as the leaves do yellow at the bootom. Peppers do need pollination, so if they are not in an area were there are bees, you will get a poor or no crop. White spots on parsley may be due to sunburn after foliage is wet. Usually a glassed in terrace might be fine for most sun loving house plants, but all that your growing are usually grown outdoors. Additionally, if the glass is filtering out UV rays, it will alos reduce the health and strength of the plants. White flies may be due to a soil borne insect that has found its way into your planting soil. If your planting for indoor growth, its always good to have a sterile soil to start with.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I'm with ksrogers on this one. Your plants aren't getting any real sunlight - just filtered light. Not the same thing at all. You're also over-watering and over-fertilising. Basil might like a bit of fertiliser, but too much will kill any plant with kindness. There is nothing better for plants in the whole world than the great outdoors - including fresh air and pollinators!

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Chillies can easily be hand pollinated. I do it all the time. when the flowers bloom, i use my middle finger and flick it a little and then I just flick another flower and another. It take very little effort and works all the time.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    A cotton swab (Q-Tip) with work too for hand pollination. If I do that here, I also move pollen from plant to plant.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks! I was told on the hot peppers board that jalepeno's and habaneros are self polinating. We did have a very good crop of peppers without hand pollinating, but the person we grew them for didn't want to eat them, saying they made her sick as the plant was diseased.

    I didn't realize that herbs needed different conditions than flowers. Many people grow herbs on a windowsill though with good results. I will try again with less water and fertilizer.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The peppers are self pollenating but you need to have the air moving to help the pollenating. If the plants don't move it is less likely that the pollen will be able to attach to the fruit making part. You can do this either by a fan or just using your hand and gently shake the plants.

    As far as the person becoming ill because the plant was diseased can happen but very unlikely physically but if you tell yourself you will be sick you probably will be. Always use good practices while cooking to prevent cross contamination.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Herbs, there are hundreds of varieties and types. Not all of them like the same growing conditions. Even flowers need different growing conditions, as do most anything we grow.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Actually, there are 20000 KNOWN herbs, originating from all kinds of climates and locations across the globe. Then there are lord-knows-how-many cultivars/hybrids of heaven-knows-how-many herbs! I leave it to you to calculate all the different variables of looking after them.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Plants don't use UV light for photosynthesis, they use visible light-mostly in the blue spectrum for growth and in the red for flowering. UV inhibitors have no effect on plant growth. Most plastic used on commercial greenhouses has UV inhibitors in it to make it last longer.
    Peppers and other members of the solonacea family (tomatoes and eggplant among others) have "perfect flowers" ie each contains the male and female parts necessary to fertilize itself-there is no need to hand pollinate or have wind do it. Sometimes the pollination doesn't "take" and the flower falls off and no fruit is produced. This can happen in extremes of temperature or other stress.

    As for the original poster's problems-What size window box is being used? How many plants per pot? What type of soil? Not sure what fertilizer you are using or what strength so hard to say whether you need to change your fertilizing practices. Potted plants require more than those in the ground. Peppers require a bit more than herbs. Did the soil already have fertilizer in it? If so you may have over fertilized.
    Cilantro only has a useful leaf production time of 4 to 6 weeks before going to seed and dying. Basil and pepper plants can be very large and can quickly outgrow a window box in a month or two. Signs of being pot bound are lower leaf drop. When pot bound, plants cannot take up nutrients effectively no matter how much is present in the soil. Unhealthy plants are more succeptible to insect attack, as are plants grown under glass/inside. Try growing plants in individual pots or at least fewer plants in each windowbox so the roots and tops can breathe.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    As far as pollination for peppers and tomatoes, it is my understanding that while they are "self-fertile," the pollination and fruit set is lower when there is no wind or pollinating insects to move the pollen in the flowers as in indoor or greenhouse culture.

    I included a link to a nice and very readable article on tomato pollination. (From what I understand, peppers are very similar.) The article suggests aiding pollination with insects or mechanical means. The q-tip method or even gently shaking the plant (according to the tomato article) seems like it would greatly increase the fruit set rates.

    Try adding some grow lights around your plants and see if that helps. Winter is a tough time for light levels if you are in a snowy portion of the US.

    FataMorgana

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato pollination

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Many greenhouses have air circulation inside. Not only does it help to move air, but also refreshes the gasses given off by the plants. Without some natural air moving around, the plants do seem to get stressed. There are two tyes of UV the invisiable and visable. Blue and red color light are near to one UV (ultra violet). Thats the reason many plant grow lights offer a purple coloration, and mercury vapor lamps for plant growing have a UV amount as well. I have 160 watt mercury vapor lamps and use these over my plants when they get too tall for my seed starting shelves. Here is a link for a nice lamp and clip on fixture.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Charleys Greenhouse

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sorry, but Ksrogers is completely wrong about UV light. There is only one kind. UV light is invisible. UV stands for ultraviolet. Its rays are too strong for plants to use. Many plants actually have their own UV protection built in.
    In the visible spectrum, violet is closest to the ultraviolet while red is closest to infrared. The two are on opposite ends of the visible spectrum!
    Commercial greenhouses typically use high pressure sodium to supplement natural (light at the red end of the spectrum) or metal halide (violet end of the spectrum).
    Inexpensive florescent lights with cool white bulbs can also be used to start seeds (been doing it commercially for 33 years). They need to be within a few inches of the plants and on for 12 to 14 hours a day.
    Air movement in the greenhouse is important for several reasons. It keeps the air temperature more consistent throughout the house, eliminating cold pockets in the winter, helps to dry out leaf/soil surfaces more quickly preventing diseases that thrive on moisture and still air, and it can help plants to be a little sturdier. Air circulation is usually provided by fans, naturally via open vents on the sides and roof of the greenhouse or a combination.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Photosynthesis

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sorry, your compleely wrong.. Take a look at this following about UV light in general. There are several ranges- UVA and UVB are the most commonly known.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet

    Mercury vapor is used for lighting sources in a greenhouse. Check out the site I linked which features. Sodium only puts out the red spectrum for flowering and fruiting, where metal halide puts out the blue which is the 'growth' light. Mercury vapor also puts out UV along with red and blue. Normal cool white lamps at best will work only 2 inches away from plants, and are not useful for any further distances. When I start seeds indoors, I use grow lights, 4 foot ones, tow per fixture and two fixtures per shelf. Never do I have spindly plants, and have even gotten many flowers blooming on petunias, impatiens, peppers and tomatoes after only two months indoors. The lamps stay close to the plants at all times, and are left on 18 hours per day on a timer. Once the plants get too tall for the shelves I move them out to an open space were they get the mercury vapor bulbs light instead. Many reach to the bulb very fast, so I must be vigulent to prevent the leaves from getting scorched. I've been growing plants this way for over 40 years.. No one is a 100% right all the time.. Vents in the roof of a greenhouse might be fine to let out heat, but fans do need to be added to move air around inside. I use several in my 6x8 foot small greenhouse and the plants thrive there until they get planted in the garden or sold as plants for containers and planters. Last year, I sold about 50+ plants in my garage sales, and people were coming back asking for more.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Dual bulb system

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    ksrogers, you have basically reiterated and confirmed everything I already said in my previous two posts. For purposes of this forum and this thread I was merely pointing out that plants do not use UV light for photosynthesis. You made several mistatements regarding UV light and I was merely correcting those. You said there were visible and invisible UV, I was correcting that statement: there is only one meaning that UV is invisible. I didn't mean that there weren't other types of UV light (UVA, UVB, UVC). I apologize if you thought I was questioning your methods. I've been doing this long enough to know that there are many ways to grow healthy, vigorous plants.
    This is how I do it and how my father did it before me (he wrote an award winning book on herb propagation and I learned from him):
    Although I grow 100,000 plants a year (approx. 60,000 from seed the rest from cuttings and purchased plugs), the methods were devoloped when my father was producing far fewer plants. My seedlings are started under florescent tubes. I use a lot of them-four, eight foot long fixtures with two 60 watt, cool white lamps per fixture, per shelf. This accomodates eight flats per shelf (I have 15 shelves). The lights are set about 2 to 4 inches above the seedlings for 14 hours a day. For me, grow lights would be too expensive and unnecessary. There were studies done many years ago that showed that cool white florescents were as good or better than standard grow lights for starting seeds. You are corrrect that the lights lose their effectiveness as you move them away from plants so they wouldn't be used to grow plants on to maturity. When the seedlings are transplanted into pots, they go in a heated greenhouse-30 X 60. When the greenhouse bench space is full, I grow under the benches using 400 watt high pressure sodium Agro sun lamps that have more blue in their output than standard HPS lamps. To clarify, I use HAF fans for circulation. When it is warm enough, both sides open their entire length (creating a 4 foot wide opening 60 feet long) and the roof vent opens to allow the hot air to escape. The open vents create their own circulation-as hot air escapes from the top cooler air rushes in the sides to replace it. Other commercial growers use large fans on the end of the greenhouse to draw air through the entire house.
    Yes mercury vapor puts out UV. However, some (if not all) lamps have a coating inside to prevent their escape and to convert much of the UV to a more useful (and less harmful) wavelength in the visible spectrum. The link you provided is to a light fixture that uses both HPS (high pressure sodium) and metal halide lamps (similar in technology to mercury vapor) in them to take advantage of their light output in the different ends of the visible light spectrum. Metal halide is generally used when there is no natural light, HPS when the natural light is being supplemented ie to extend the long days of winter. They are used this way because of the spectrum of light emitted from them. When my fixtures where purchased (25 years ago) MH technology was not as good as it is today and lamps (bulbs) had a tendency to explode in damp environments like a greenhouse among other drawbacks. In some ways I wish I had MH lamps to take advantage of the blue spectrum but replacing 30 or so fixtures and lamps is cost prohibitive which is why I use the special blue spectrum HPS lamps now.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The UV link I posted states that there is visable UV and invisable UV. To make a statement that I am 'completely wrong' tells me that you appear to be a 'know it all', and I felt offended by someone who I do not know, telling me that I am completely wrong, when in fact, my link proved that I was knowing what I write about. UV is an important element needed by plants, and without it, many would die. You can tout a century of experience and many books, but no single person is always right all the time, as you seem to be describing your self as always being right. To top you, I have grown about a million plants and, all did quite well.. My lights here are the grow type, and cool white offers very little for new plants. Yes, its cheap, and yes you can use them, but at the expense of puny and failed plants. All your doing is quoting the same info I posted on my links, so stop spinning your wheels and cool your jets.

    All I am trying to do is help people grow healthy seedlings INDOORS. Once they are ready to to out in the cruel world its every plan for itself, and survival of the fittest. Many people have no means of using, or own a greenhouse, so most of what your saying is moot.

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Again, I wasn't questioning your methods or results. And I apologize for coming on too strong. I am on this forum to learn from others and to educate by sharing my experience.
    Please help me out though. I don't see anywhere in your wikipedia link that says there is visible UV light. In fact the first two lines in the entry say specifically that UV is not visible to the human eye. If you are refering to the section on black light, I admit it is quite confusing, it seems to say UV light can be visible, but that is not what it says. I had to read further on the subject of how black lights work to understand it better. See the link below.
    The link I provided in my previous post clearly states that plants don't use UV light for photosynthesis-they even have pigments to protect them from UV (something I learned while trying to find references to support my statements). Please read the very bottom of the page where it says that UV is too strong for plants to use in photosynthesis etc. The only point I was really trying to make is that UV inhibitors in glass or other material used in a sunroom or greenhouse will not be detrimental to plants. If it was why would commercial growers use plastic that have UV inhibitors in it to cover their greenhouses?
    I am not a know it all by any means. I am not right all the time, never said I was. I just have knowledge in this particular area. People can take methods used by all sized growers and adapt them to their own use. I never said that florescents where good for growing on to mature size, just for starting seedlings (which is indoors in a basement in my case). If plants started this way where of inferior quality, we would quickly go out of business. I would be happy to post pictures of my set up with healthy, sturdy seedlings underneath on another thread if you'd like further proof, as this one is getting way off topic.
    I am not disputing your results or methods although you dispute mine. In fact, your method is very similar to what I tell my customers to do when they want to start seedlings early. Too bad you don't feel that you or anyone else can learn anything from another experienced grower.
    BTW Producing a million plants over 40 years (25,000 pear year on average) with such a small set up is very impressive, my wide brimmed straw hat is off to you. I could have saved myself lots of money on expensive greenhouses if I knew your secret.

    Here is a link that might be useful: How black light works

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    UV Black lights at 'discos', I can see that. The sterilizing UV like you see in some burn units in hospitals, that you should ever look at are visable. I was stating that UV has several spectrums, and some are quite noticeable to peoples eyes. Charleys Greenhouses mostly feature plastic, and some times double or triple layers of plastic that are used for greenhouses. My little one here has all 1/8 inch glass 2'x2' panes and these aren't cheap. High levels of UV have been traced to the diminshed population of frogs. It seems their eggs are sensitive to it and many don't survive. I was pulling your 'leg' when I said millions. It just seemed that you were trying to outbrag me in your expertise. It is in the thousands though. Every year, tomatoes and peppers alone are about 170 to 200 plants each. I don't grow these all in my greenhouse, but indoors under the PLANT lights. They only go outside once they reach a height and size that they benefit by getting hardened off. If I were to try and grow the plants from seeds out in the greenhouse, I would need a MUCH bigger location as well as a LOT of heat to keep them from freezing. My geenhouse is nearly 30 years old now and was made in New Zealand. Its aluminium frame, and all aluminium screws and bolts that are now breaking and being slowly replaced by stainless steel bolts. Last year, 5 panes were cracked and the one whole side had seperated and opened up due to the broken bolts. Luckily I was able to pull it back togher without busting more glass. During the winter months there are no plants in there, but I store my wild bird food out there until its all removed in spring (about mid April). UV light may not be needed by plants, but because it is so close to the light they do need, it has to be considered and included in the light sources. Cool white flourescent just isn't enough of the spectrum to give tender young plants a good headstart. If it were, there would be no such need for a plant grow light that has a purple tinge. I also saw reference to UVC, along with UVA and UVB. One point to note, those red plastic sheets applied to the soil below tomato plans, are supposed to improve the plants vigor. Not for me, I saw no noticable differences between using a red plastic on the soil, compared to my black plastc.