There could be several problems. Sugar and pectin must be in the right proportions with all the liquid in the recipe. If a bit less sugar is used, it could throw of a recipe. I usually see a regular pectin recipe that has a yield of just 5 cups, and yours seems to have up to 7. The pectin used, may have had an expiration date that had expired. Cooking time and temp is also very important. If its overcooked, it can 'break' the set. If your just starting out making jelly for the very first time, it can become a daunting task. Just don't quit, or give up. To get a more reliable set up of the apple pie jam or any other jellies, I suggest that instead of the regular pectins, that you give the fool proof Pomona pectin a try instead. One package of Pomona can make up to 30 cups of a jelly or jam as single large batch, and there is no set up issue if not enough sugar (or even any at all for that matter) to get the pectin to set. The unique feature of Pomona is its citrus based and doesn't need any sugar to properly set. It uses a tiny amount of calcium that is also packed with it. The calcium is what makes it set up. It will give you a slighly cloudy appearance, but unless your planning on entering it in a contest, its unimportant. Additioanlly, sometimes regular pectin jams need a few days or weeks to actually set up. My issue was the floating apple bits in the sealed jars. I would flip the jars while they cool until the apple pieces were held in suspension. I use Splenda and frozen apple juice concentrate (undiluted) as sweeteners. For the 'syrup' you have now, it can go great on ice cream, pancakes, and waffles. You could also add the whole failed batch into another that was made using the Pomona pectin. I am quite sure that you would be pleased with Pomona pectin. Its cost is a bit higher priced compared to a regular Ball, Certo, or Surejel pectin, but with the regular pectin, your batch size is quite small. If you were to calculate the cost of pectin for 5 cups, and compare that cost with 30 cups using Pomona, I would suspect that you would realize that Pomona ie even cheaper because of its large batch size. Of course, you don't need to make a big batch using the Pomona, as it can be measured out for smaller batches, along with the necessary calcium.

Happy canning!

jude - I had the same problem the first time I made it. So, we just heated it up and use it as a topping for ice cream. Now, I've made a few batches without the pectin just for this purpose. Yummy!!!

Again, I appreciate your answer and after reading your post I suspect the problem may have been my pectin. Generally speaking, is Pomona available in stores or must it be ordered. As far as I know grocery stores and some hardware stores are basically my source for canning needs. I ran all over you know where and half of Georgia trying to find citric acid, wound up at a health food place.
I had a brilliant idea and called the Earth Faire store, which is 15 miles or more away from me, but the fellow I talked with said they had it. He also called me sir which set me back a bit. It just occured to me that in my circle of friends and family, I'm the only one doing any canning...sad isn't it? My gardening group basically does herb gardening and I suppose at our age, our children are all grown and our lifestyles have changed. Most everyone lives in subdivisions as well. Thank you so much and now I have to decide whether I want to take time out to go get the Pomona. My DH would spend half a day looking for it.
Jude

Jude -

Mine did the same thing at first. This is the first year I've ever tried making jam/jelly, my first year canning anything by myself - so I just try to follow the recipes exactly and see what happens. Linda Lou's Apple Pie Jam I followed to a T and then it turned out to be a delicious syrup with apples floating on top (at first). I thought, oh well, it will make a nice pancake syrup or ice cream topping. The jar I opened a week later had set up perfectly and makes a great spread on biscuits and toast. I don't know when you made yours, but it may still set up fine. (If not, it's still good stuff).

I've since tried muscadine jelly - though I didn't have a jelly bag so it's a cross between jelly and jam - and boy is it good. It just tickles me pink when the kids ask for "Mom's Jelly" instead of Smuckers!

I posted a thread not long ago titled "Linda Lou's Apple Pie Jam" where I got a lot of good feedback and pointers on how to do the jam better next time, just in case your interested (not enought computer knowledge to post the link for you).

When did you make it ? It can take a month for jams to gel. If you just made it, it is too soon to tell.
Also, I have gone to making it with the 4 cups of finely chopped apples and adding 1 cup water instead of filling up the cup with the apples and water. The first time I changed it I used 1 1/4 cups water, but it took about a week to gel.
I use Sure Jell in the apple pie jam.

I realize I tend to push the panic button kinda quick sometimes. I made the jam yesterday afternoon, dutifully turned it upside down a time or two, told DH to turn it again before he went to bed and expected it to have jelled when I got up this morning. NOT! Now I'm in a quandry, I got the Pomona with seemingly vague instructions for the jam I'm making. I do better with step 1 step 2 etc., which was what drew me to Linda Lou's recipe after I read all the people raving about it and putting up multiple jars of it. Anyhow, it's back to the drawing board and I don't know which route to take. Thanks Guys.
Jude
One more thing, Linda Lou...do you always use that much sugar?

Mine was soupy until the next morning and it set up just perfect. Also watch when you put the pectin in. That could be the problem.

I put up over 50 jars and not a problem.

Jay

For the apple pie jam I have so far. I just use Sure Jell with it. I am going to make some low sugar for myself, using Splenda for the white sugar, and then use brown sugar, as called for. I will use Pomona's for it.
Give it a month to gel. Honestly, it can take that long for jams to gel.

Linda Lou,

When I asked if I could use less sugar, I wasn't talking about calories, I just thought it was awfully sweet. However, I do not want to rock the boat. You said something in your post that I didn't quite understand,duh, I'm not sure that comes as a big surprise! You said you were going to use Splenda (I have never used it for anything) for the white sugar and then use brown sugar as called for. Then you said, (isn't it good that I can read?) that you would use Pomona's for it. I'm not sure what the "it" is. I'm not going to worry about the gelling at this point...I'll just see what happens. Thank you again everyone.
Jude

If you cut down on the sugar in a regular jam it won't gel using regular pectin . You need a low methoxyl pectin if you want a low or no sugar jam. Pomona's is a low methoxyl pectin.I mean when I make the low sugar jam with Splenda, I will still use the brown sugar where called for, but add some Splenda in place of the 4 cups white sugar. I use Pomona's pectin for my low/no sugar jams. I am diabetic, so thought I would make some for myself this way. I can add Splenda to taste, not necessarily use 4 cups of it in place of the sugar.
So far I have only made the full sugar version with Sure jell for my pectin. I have not tried any other versions yet.

Lucky you.. They have Pomona pectin near you, in nature stores. Its not easily found everywhere as evidenced by many recent posts of people being frustrated at not being able to find any. Keep in mind that the Pomona has no spoilage or shelf life like regular pectins. Some regular pectin given to me had dates of 1997, that I would never try to use in a small recipe.

Citrus based marmalades like orange, etc, are very slow setters. I have seen my clemetine/cumquat one set in about 60 days using regular pectin, and VERY fast in Pomona.

Instead of adding water (horrors in flavor dilution!!), I prefer to use frozen apple juice concentrate that's undiluted. Even for that, adding a little bit of water to it, will still give more natural apple sweetness and flavor..

If you decrease the required sugar amount in a regular pectin, it will NEVER set properly. Doing things step by step EXACTLY would be for regular pectin which needs an exact amount of sugar, and an exact amount or liquid. On the Pomona boooklet, it will tell you the approximate amount to use for smaller batches of jams. The amount of suger, or even none is totally unimportant. You only need to taste the liquid before its got Pomona added, to ensure it has the right flavor, taste, sweetness, tartness, spices, etc. Its VERY important to taste the product before its final steps.

For the Pomona, I have posted many times, a better way to incorprate it into a jelly/jam liquid you want to mak. You simply use a little of some of the liquid or even water, pour in the amount of Pomona into a blender and whizz in a blender a minute. It gives you a thick syrupy looking pectin that will be easier to pour and add to your jam. For the calcium, if you use 1/3 package of Pomona as a batch, use 1/3 the amount of calcium powder mixed with a little water. Now, while the jam liquid has been tasted and ready for the pectin, bring it to a boil, and slowly pour in the liquified Pomona. I usually like to get it out of the blender and into a small bowl first as its easier to get it all into teh batch of jam. Then simply stir the pectin in well while te mixture is boiling a little. Get your jars ready, and then add that small amount of calcium mixed with water to the jam, and stir in well, with the heat at just a slow simmer. You will soon (within a minute!) start to set up as you see it sticking to the spoon in sheets. It even can form 'globs' on the edge of the spoon! I know thats a good sign and start filling jars. Once most is in jars, reduce the heat so the rest will not burn. It will set up in MINUTES!! You then process it in the canner. Once out of there, flip the jars over and see if there is any movement of the apple bits. If not, just flip back upright again. If I were to make this 'step by step', it wouldnt make the 'recipe' easier. Here, very seldom do I use any recipe for making anything. Unless its a cake mix or packaged product that you need to add ingredients to. Even for that, if I were to make a chocolate cake, for instance, I would add a bit of vegetable oil for extra moistness, more cocoa, and even some Splenda. That same cake would come out better tasting as it was 'modified' for my taste.
Dont be afraid to use Pomona, its not as hard to work with as regular pectin. I can't tell you how many times my jellies were watery only because I hates adding all that sugar. Now, with Pomona, I have no fear, and can even use Pomona to make 'water jelly!!!

I guess it would be nice to have your confidence, but I'm not built that way. I tried to follow Linda Lou's directions to the letter and finally concluded it was the Sure Jell that might have been the culprit. I do very well following step 1 step 2 and it doesn't bother me a bit unless, like the jam, it doesn't come out quite right. It may still jell in this life but not yet. I dutifully flipped the jars and did the whole bit. Someone, maybe it was you suggested I do the Pomona's thing and pour my syrupy stuff in with it. I don't want to sound like a broken record but my apples will probably wind up in the freezer as apple sauce because I just don't get it....yet. Not to say I never will. As far as following recipes goes, I don't feel I need to apologize for that. I'm a good cook, not great, but I DO follow recipes...guess Im just not a good 'canner'

Jude

Recipes for me are just for reference. Even if they are followed to the letter, sometimes you get frustrating results or failures. I would suspect that if I had secretly packed the amount of Pomona into a Sure Jel box, and left in the same Sure Jel instructions, it would not fail. Basically, I am trying to give you a better, and more reliable way to make jams and jellies using Pomona, as oppoed to 'fussy' regular pectins. Since I started using it, I have never had one single failed batch. The last huge batch was actually the apple pie jam and was at nearly 25 jars, a few were pints. If I were to make that size batch with Sure Jel or other 'regular' pectin, it would probably fail miserably, especially if a Sure Jel and Certo recipes state not to double the batch size. With Pomona the batch size can vary greatly.

Hang in there..

I'm going to try to explain where I'm coming from... but first:
I don't know how old you are....I'm 77, I'm guessing you're a good bit younger.
I don't know how long you've been canning...I started in Aug. after a 20 yr. break where I had only canned green beans and tomatoes. I know it was not your intent to make me feel like a penny waiting for change but last night that's what I felt like. It's not impossible to teach an old dog new tricks but it does take longer. One thing I'm not sure about is making huge amounts at one time. So far, I've only used the requisite 4 C. of apples. Now I've been studying the instruction sheet that was in the box of Pomona and this is what I've come up with. If I use the 4 C of apples then I would use 2 teas pectin 2
T. lemon juice 2 c. of sugar ( I understand that can vary but stay with me) and 4 tea of Calcium water. If I'm on the right track then I can play around with it later. When would I dump my syrupy mixture that I have already canned into the new mixture? Also when would I add the pectin?

Thank you for being so patient, I really want this to turn out right and right now I have 11 jars of syrup.
Jude

Jude,
The jam you made still may gel. I had a batch like that recently and it is even called Linda Lou's apple pie jam. That shows you how it can be. It did set up later. So, don't feel badly. Personally, unless you are in a hurry for it to gel, I would wait a month and see what happens.
Then, if it is not gelled, I would put all of your jam in the pot, add some Pomona's in a little heated apple juice, or use the dry method and mix with a little sugar. Normally I mix the pectin with some hot apple juice and blend it up with a stick blender. Otherwise it wants to clump on me. I would add the 2 tsp. calcium water first, and then add the pectin mix. Cook and it should gel. I would use probably 2 tsp. of the Pomona's pectin since the jam already has some pectin added, plus apples have natural pectin, as well. You can always add some more pectin, but I would not want to make it too thick the first time.
Recooked jams always seem more gummy to me, so I try to avoid remaking unless I have to. Most times I just relabel as syrup and no one else knows.
I would just thicken that first batch, then make a second batch from scratch. I wouldn't mix the two, but that is just me.

Linda Lou,
I will give the jam a little more time but if it doesn't thicken and I follow your suggestion, do I still boil it for 1 minute and then how long would I process it? I'm sorry to be so thick headed and since I do have the Pomona and still have apples I'd like to try that method at least once. I have a lot going on this week so I'll try to watch my apples in case they don't like hanging around and start going bad. Next week will be better for me. Thanks again.

If the jam doesn't set up, you can add it back to another batch once that new batch is starting to heat up for the inital cooking. I do recal that Linda Lou likes to add apple bits near the end of the cooking, so they retain a little shape. I have been canning for about 30 years, and learned a lot here as well as from my parents. My mom had learned a little from her mother who came from Poland. Thats where I got the half sour pickle brines to come out like they should. Its nice to know that Pomona offers reduced batch sized measuremnts, but in your case, I would treat the possible failed jam like it had no pectin in it, and use pectin in the amount suitable for two batchs of jam. One freshly made and the 'pour back' of the other batch. As mentioned, Pomona will set without sugar, and some people like tart flavor. Too many jellies and jams today are so cloyingly sweet that its hard to taste the actual fruit, without reading the labels! No rush on the jelly/jam, unless the apples cant wait.. I added a few dried craisins to the apple pie jam too (sweetened cranberries), yum, made for a nice taste.

Jude,
You can also dice your apples ahead of time, freeze in the amount for a batch of jam. I do this all the time.
Yes,cook for the one minute as regular jam to thicken it up. You will process the jars in the boiling water bath for 10 min.
Something else you can get and use if this happens again, it is called Clear Jel. You normally order it online or get from Amish stores. Some health food stores have it, too. It is used for canning pie fillings at home, and also can be used for pectin. Then, if your jam doesn't gel, you could always add some Clear Jell to thicken it up.
I have only used it for pie fillings so far, not jam. I do know that 7T. of Clear Jel can be used in place of one pkg. dry pectin. It is a modified food starch, made from corn. It is the same thing the commercial industry uses for canned pie fillings.

Clear Jel is a great product, but be sure to add it slowly and wait. I mix it as a slurry in some water and stir in a little while the batch is boiling a bit. It can thicken up twice as much as regular corn starch, and only takes a minute to thicken if the liquid is already boiling. The texture is more like a soupy pudding if you like it that way, or a slight less of the Clear Jel and its a thick syrup instead.

Please dont feel intimidated by my note to you. I am only trying to calm you down and reassure you that your failed jam isn't a total loss. I always try to provide as much detail as I can when explaining something that may be useful to many.

Up until a few years ago, Eve Linda Lou wasn't familar with Clear Jel and since then has become a convert. We all try to help, especially those who are diabetic. Sugar in our lives isn't an option and so we look for many other ways to get things to work for us.

Ever made Italian 'Slush' in an ice cream freezer? An elderly lady friend tried it using Crystal Light and wound up with a block of ice. It quickly froze solid and never reached a stable slush stage. The reason, no sugar! Sugar slows down freezing as does booze, fat, and salt. Thats about all you can do to make a sugar free slush..

Hi,
I could use some advice. My first attempt seemed to be a partial failure. I (as usual) did not read the directions and added the sugars right away, then tried to scoop it out as much as possible. I did not get the mixture to a proper rolling boil. The jars sealed properly but are not setting. I followed the directions correctly on the second batch and it came out great. Since the first batch did not boil out properly I wonder if it will really ever set. I don't have access to clear gel or ponona and I regularly use ball natural gell no sugar.
Any suggestions
Jon

I made two batches of Apple Pie Jam yesterday. Both jelled beautifully. I used the small julienne blade of my V-slicer to shred the apple quarters. The 4 cups were packed tightly so only a small amount of water was needed. My guess is, I used less than one cup of water. Powdered pectin was used. In the first batch I added 1/2 cup of finely chopped golden raisins. You could also use cut up dried apricots. Each batch yielded exactly 6 half pints.

Cranberries, the 'Craisin' kind are great added to an apple jelly, as are dried cherries. For the no sugar pectin, you may not see the set at all, so you could recook it again and dont add any more sugar, but add another box of the no sugar pectin at the proper time. If you had used Pomona that issue would not occur and both batches could have been done as a single batch. Sometimes jellies tend to take longer to set, up to a month. I usually have a small saucer that is frozen and place a little of the simmering mixture on it, then back into the freezer for another minute. It will either set or will remain liquid, which tells me its ready or needs more help. For the no/low sugar pectins, they are a bit more sensitive to a long cooking, and for after opening storage, where they can get 'weapy' or mold. The Clear Jel is more of a thickener like corn starch, the texture in a jelly would be more like a pudding. You can find Pomona in many natural food stores as well as a decent price from Barry Farms. The cost is close to a no/low sugar pectin, but the Ball brand pectin can only do about 5-6 cups, whereas the Pomona can make up to 30 cups in a single batch. For anyone having a first attempt at jelly making, you did well though, so make a lot more, once you get the whole process to come together correctly.