I agree with you Don.

Don, I couldn't have said it any better, I'm sure glad I don't stand alone here. It's about how much enjoyment we get out of these plants while we have them. Just think about the cost of a decent meal when dining out, we can buy a few plants for what the meal cost and they stay with you a lot longer :o).

A......

While I personally am not much into Zone Denial, there is no reason what so ever for anyone who is to not buy whatever they want to. It is your money!

What bothers me is when big box stores sell marginal or tropical plants without labeling them as such and unsuspecting non gardeners think they are going to grow here as landscape plants.

If you know what it is, where and when it belongs in your garden, and choose to buy something "iffy" anyway -- then take a shot. You'll either be rewarded or challenged, which in itself is a type of reward.

"It's my money and I'll plant what I want to, plant what I want to, plaaant what I want to. You would plant, too, if you only-ee-ee knew".

With apologies to Ms. Gore,

Rain

Or you could be old-fashioned and cost conscious and do what it takes to keep the plants alive over winter. My grandmother back in Indiana would either take cuttings, dig up the plant and bring indoors, or mulch heavily to keep favorite tender plants alive over winter. Her basement was wall to wall north facing windows and became an indoor nursery each winter. Alot more work, but it certainly was a way to broaden the plants she could use, without having to buy new each spring.

We have all been seduced by the relative abundance of plants that are shipped long distances to reach us, and as long as oil and cheap transport remain accessible, the trend will continue. I don't think it is sustainable in the long term, however, and we may find that those cheap Bougainvilleas or Mandevillea x Alice Dupont vines will not be there every May in the future. When that finally happens, these plants will go back to being something that requires more work, more money or more resourcefulness to possess; or go back to becoming plants that are mostly grown where they are actually hardy.

It is your money, and who is to say that plants shouldn't be considered as annuals if the buyer is knowledgable about the consequences. Live plants certainly last longer than cut flowers, and often are cheaper to buy. I prefer to minimize the amount of disposable plants I use in a garden, as I don't feel good about having an entire garden of disposable plants, or blank spaces in winter, even if I or my clients can afford to treat specimens as annuals.

Viva la Zone Denial! We're not deluded, just hopefull. ;)

I love the tropicals so much that bring them inside for the winter. I think I'll have about 40 this year. This week is the one, maybe next week, before our first frost. I've learned a lot on winter storage from the brugmansia, banana, and plumeria people. It's amazing what you can keep over in a non-freezing garage without much light and in a pretty small space.

I do want to mention what I think is the most important part over overwintering ZD plants outdoors in our climate: drainage. Excellent winter drainage can often give you a difference similar to a whole extra zone warmer without the drainage.

- Tom

My collection of unhardy tropicals is growing too. The Mandevillea, brugs, purple beauty, etc. are all still blooming their little hearts out! I have had 4 1/2 months of flowers out of them. They are going to be put into cold storage soon and hopefully some will survive. I find it better to overwinter them just above freezing in my g/h with a fan going 24/7. When I have put them in the barn which gets warmer because of the insulation and the sun from the south facing windows, I lose more, probably because they dry out or try to start growing too soon.

I used to work in the garden center at Home Depot. We sold Cordyline grass, and I told every customer who asked about it, that no, it was not hardy here. "They're perennials in California, but not around here". Even the tag said it was suitable for a houseplant.

Meanwhile, at home, I kept a Dracaena outdoors year round in a container. It died back in the winter and came back in the spring.

Only later, I found out that Cordyline IS Dracaena.

I got a Dahlia regina (I think, anyway the giant one or a giant one... it's dark and rainy and I'm not going out to check the tag) for $3.95 this Spring-a tiny piece of tuber in a 4'' pot. It's about 8 feet tall now. All my Dahlias I leave in the ground...they've all come back- gladiolus too for that matter. I'm not sure I will dig up this Dahlia- it was only $3.95!

My sister and I have a saying about people who dig up stuff to save over winter, '' Too much like work for me!'' Both of us are farmers with huge gardens and not enough time.

Anyway, I coveted the giant Dahlia from when I saw an almost 20 foot tall specimen on a south wall at Hatley Castle in Victoria. We'll see how hardy it is covet or not. I know where to get another piece from.

... Don

Don, I have found if I put something over the top of a Dahlia that I haven't dug, a pail lid or something big enough to keep the tuber/s from getting too wet they come through just fine. If Dahlias are planted deep enough they don't freeze, I think it's getting too wet that does them in when we have a really cold winter.
Is your Dahlia the tree Dahlia, D. imperialis, has pink flowers and grows 8'-? I've only seen pictures of that one, looks impressive. I've never seen them for sale anywhere :o(.

A......

Dahlia imperialis, the Tree Dahlia can easily get 20 feet tall here in the San Francisco Bay Area, and is still in flower bud here, typically not flowering much before Thanksgiving locally. I would think that this one will almost never get to bloom in your locations, as the bloom season is so late. This is probably root hardy if you give it very good drainage, or can keep it dry as suggested. They are more commonly propagated from stem sections, with a piece with two or more nodes cut and placed horizontally to start new plants. The new growth/shoots is very attractive to mollusks, so you would need to bait.

The dahlias have good root drainage... I'll try the cover trick this winter... but it will have to be something attractive.

I don't remember the exact species name, regina(e) comes to mind, but responding here at night and I have no desire to go out with a flashlight to check the name.

I actually don't care if it blooms and doubt it will. The foliage and height make up for lack of bloom. I'm sure it needs good heat for bloom and we certainly didn't get anything like that this year.

Aftermidnight, I got mine from Brentwood Bay Nursery. But to be honest, I was with a friend who's friends with the propigator there and we went in back and saw all the things that weren't for sale. I happened to mention it and she said she had some tubers from the one at Hatley Castle. But it was potted up in a 4'' with a teeeeny shoot and only $3.95 and less my friend's discount, so I had to try it. Not sure if any others were ever put up for sale. But you could ask. If not, I'm sure you could find something else you'd like there!!

... Don

Don, I know that nursery very well, if you are looking for something a little on the unusual side that's the place to go.
Brentwood Bay, that's where I got my Epiphyllum anguliger, which is in bloom now filling the greenhouse with it's fragrance, the owner gave me a cutting of another plant Cryptocereus anthonyanus which is very similar, this one is also setting flower buds and is also fragrant. These two spend their time outdoors from May until this time of year.
One year they were growing the most beautiful Coleus I've ever seen, of course every time I go to that nursery I seem to come home with a truckload :o). I will make it a point to visit BBN next spring.
The gardens at Hatley Castle are lovely, our garden club had a tour when the gardens were at their peak.

A......

Yes, Dahlia imperialis overwinters here, at least for awhile and also seldom flowers long enough to make the space it takes seem completely justifiable. Depends on how much value one places on the novelty of it. I no longer have it, it started blooming mere days before being frosted and shut down for there. Other specimens on other sites may be more successful.

I wandered by the dahlia the other day and it is ''imperialis''. No chance of blooming. It's got one stalk about 8 feet high, very full and leafy. I'm not worried about room here... things grow too big and I just make the beds bigger, the lawnmower creeps over to the hayfield an extra width or two (no fence) and all is well...

Except for my aching back from tending even more garden

and Aftermidnight, evry time I stop by BB Nursery, I end up with a vanfull of plants. Good thing it's on the Island and I'm not.

...Don

Dotty,

If you have any secrets about overwintering the mandevilla, please share. I bought a 5 gallon staked one that was mispriced at HD summer before last (rather I should say I stole it :-) and put it on the deck by my pond. It grew up onto the wisteria covering my pergola and was spectacular. I cut it back and took it into my basement but it didn't make it. This year, my nieces gave me a tiny one in a little pot for "Uncles Day" so I transplanted it into a bigger pot and trained it on the top of my glass rails on my deck. It's still blooming and I don't want to lose it. I don't have a greenhouse so my only options are the garden shed (no windows), the garage (unheated) or my workshop (heated with one window).

Which would you think would be the best option?

I was given this dahlia two years ago and this year I let it grow up through my 'Sensation' lilac. It got to about 6' and was loaded with blooms that are at least 10" across. I just called it 'Dinner Plate' not really knowing what it was.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1093146}}